How about calling it Winter Holidays gifts? No matter what the gift is, it's a gift for the holidays. We can call it Christmas if we want. Again, if you guys didn't want this, blame the Pope for stealing a day that was already celebrated with gift giving.



Give me something historically correct. People were already giving/receiving gifts BEFORE Christmas was invented. Meaning, no matter what, we have a right to give gifts on Dec 25th and not get pummelled by Christians. The day is not your own. So now what you have against us is the fact that we call it "Christmas gifts"? I didn't know Christians were so petty about sharing a damn word.


Right, I'm sure it does. It teaches your about your religion and withheld things that don't really leave your religion in the positive side. Hey, do you guys learn about the Crusades? Tell me, what is it that your Sunday School teachers say about the Crusades.




Christmas IS A CHRISTIAN TRADITION, DECEMBER 25th IS NOT.




And we're back to square one. WHY would it be wrong to celebrate on December 25th? Because Christ was born that day? NO, He wasn't. Because it's a Christian's day? NO, it wasn't originally Christian until the Pope decided that for the sake of conversions, he would change the date of Christ's birth. Brillant strategy, awfully disrepectful thing to do. Because it's hypocritic? NO, because December 25th marks a holiday for people of many beliefs, not just Christians.



So Christians aren't giving gifts? The last time I checked, Christians give plenty of gifts. Sure they celebrate Christ (silliness because Christ wasn't even born on that day), but non-Christians can celebrate December 25th as they like. There is no right or wrong way to celebrate when you're not Christian. If you feel like the religion aspect of Christmas is being shoved out the window, it is because you feel so highly of your religion that you think everyone should celebrate it the Christian way. Which is, once more, silliness because Christ wasn't even born on that day.




Those of religions/beliefs with their ORIGINAL holidays on the 25th of December isn't as stingy and incredibly discriminated as those Christians who believe that it's wrong for others to celebrate it. Aside from Mithras, it is a PAGAN holiday, I'm sure you don't know what that is... Look it up.




Because I can read, and unless you don't know how to write, I can read your point.

" In a revised decision Friday, the attorney said that a Christmas tree is a purely secular symbol, along with Santa Claus and candy canes. "
- ruled by the court of florida, in pasco county.



it's not your symbol, it's not your claus, it's not your cane.

I know I'm spamming but...

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

i know what you are saying. x-mas should be about family, friends, and of course the birth of jesus. if all you are doing is celebrating "christmas" only for presents, then you are not celebrating "christmas", you just want presents. The presents are just a perk to the holiday.

Read the thread.

Presents are perks to the holidays for Christians. Non-Christians are entitled to celebrate it how we want to celebrate it.

is christmas not a national holiday? :whistles:

and if it isn't, i shouldn't be on break right now for something i'm not religiously associated to.

i read on the paper today about something interesting that caught my attention.
It talked about conservative Christians all around the US boycotting ppl who use the phrase "Happy Holidays" on their stores. It started in Raleigh, N.C. Many ppl in places in the US like Oklahoma and Florida are doing the same.

The article also states that Conservative Christians want the term "Merry Christmas" used instead of "Happy Holidays." It says that they want the birth of Christ to be recognized more during Christmas times.

I'm just wondering what you think of this.

it is a national holiday.

it's an american holiday.

not a christian one.

an american one.

that's what our government says.

haha... these conservative christians just crack me up...

christmas isn't about the birth of christ. it was suppost to be, but it never truely was.

you know what... i feell like, if i ever get enough money, buying a bible store and come christmas time put "happy chaunaka (spelling?)" on it...

that'd be hilarious.

of course, i'd probably need arson insurance...

"Happy Holidays" means almost the same thing as "Merry Christmas" isnt it? It's almost christmas anyways and its a holiday of december. ...

I think people should be able to express the celebration of holidays how they wish. Happy Holidays is just wishing everyone...well...happy holidays. New years, christmas, hannukah(sp?) kwanza, and all the other religions out there.
America is a place of all different religions, cultures, races, etc. And if you don't agree with someone on their religion, ok fine, but that doesn't mean you have to boycott them, does it?

I dunno, that's just my opinion!

^hanukkah...
ppl say merry christmas when they believe in christianity. but 4 ppl who don't they can say w/e they say or happy holidays. anywayz, wtf is with conservative christians? they gotta let the other ppl juss say w/etf they want.

at mass last night, the priest was talking about merry christmas as opposed to merry christmas during the holidays.

what theyre doing, that was originally written about, is ridiculous

basically, ignoring the prompt, "happy holidays" has become a way for people to generalize without offending anyone. thats not always good though. whatever happened to our diversity? by having to dodge your real beliefs to protect others', but perhaps it would be better if we didnt. why should we be so general? im christian, so while im obviously not offended by "merry christmas", im not going to be offended by "happy hanukkah" either, whether that be the dominant religion or not. theres a difference between acknowlaging and forcing others to believe what you do. reminding people that you celebrate christmas and they dont could not only get obnoxious, but be offensive, but telling someone merry christmas in a friendly way should not. people these days are so stupid. stop suing over everything and work out your own damn problems.

umm i think that's very ignorant of them...
boycotting? wow. people have different beliefs, what makes christmas more important then hanukkah..whytf do they even care? what is saying merry christmas gonna do? why would a jewish person tell everyone merry christmas...wth..haha

Because they killed Jesus.

Christian holydays were never in december tho....
never were.

it's a christian holiday according to the church.



Stop saying it was stolen!


----sorry for bringing off topic-----
Fae, I know you don't support gay marriage.

Do you think gay people can call their civil unions marriage?
----------/end off topic--------------


Martin Luther King day happens on the third monday of every January. On the same day, Ben Franklin day and St. Anthony day are celebrated. Ben Franklin and Saint Anthony are having their thunder stolen by MLK Jr, is that fair?



Again, I guess you can say we're kinda petty about sharing the term marriage as well.



I can't speak for all of us, but my religion teacher did bring up the crusades and inquisition. He pointed out that it was wrong. And correct me if i'm wrong, but hasn't the church already apologized for the crusades and inquisition (I know for a fact they forgave Galilleo)



Again, MLK Jr day argument, but I don't see you blasting the government for that one.



Again, the "MLK wasn't born on the third monday on every January" argument

Sorry for the laziness, have work to do.

Christmas is not a christian holiday.

you have christmas mass... and that's about the only christian thing involved in christmas.

if you want to celebrate a christian holiday, go to christmas mass.

if you want to celebrate an american tradition, celebrate christmas.



and the third monday of every january wasn't something before MLKJ day was it.

christmas was many pagan holidays, before christ.
it was stolen.

now give it back.

and i'll give up celebrating the birth of christ... oh wait i don't...

thats about the most ignorant thing ive heard all day. catholosism is a form of christianity. do you not believe in jesus? if not, than youre not catholic anyway. if youre catholic, then you celebrate christmas, which you would do because you believe in christ. wow. how have you managed get through your life and not realize you were christian?

I like happy holidays better because it's almost the same thing.

And boycotting happy holidays by saying merry christmas is offensive to "conservative" jewish peoples. lol.

that was me.

christmas isn't truley a christian holiday. it 'celebrates' the birth of christ, which was really in like, september.

the original holidays in december were pagan ones...
the pope gathered them together and called them christmas in an attempt to make christianity more appealing to pagans.

most christmas traditions are in fact pagan ones.

no no no catholosism is a form of christianity, not the other way around. catholics and catholics do believe in the virgin mary. i didnt say you didnt believe in jesus. nor did i say you didnt celebrate christmas. you are assuming all christians are protestants. that is incorrect. both catholics and protostants fall under the umbrella of christianity. i could give you a history lesson, but i dont have the time. ignoring the last bits, as thats already been cleared up. but seriously, if youre going to say that youre catholic, you need to know something about what you supposedly believe. not a christian? wrong. thats what i was explaining about not believing in jesus, if you would just read. yes, you are ignorant. everything you just said was wrong. this is a debate on the internet, and its slightly hard to portray the correct tone, so i dont have to be nice. it wouldnt accomplish anything to be overy felicitous, seeing as youre going to insist on your own incorrect thoughts anyway.

Of course the Church would say that it's Christian. I would say that "Christmas" is a Christian holiday, too, but I wouldn't say that December 25th marks the birth of Christ nor would I say that December 25th is ONLY a Christian holiday.

We just use the term "Christmas" because it's so widely used, and plus, wasn't the intention of replacing the original names of the holiday on Dec. 25th was to WANT pagans to call it "Christmas"?




No, babe. Listen, that's my whole point in the first place. Each person can celebrate that day as they like. If I want to celebrate MLK Jr, then I can, and if you want to celebrate that day for St Anthony, then that's fine, too! And that's my point! Christians may celebrate it for the "birth" of Christ (eventhough He was born a few months before) and non-Christians can celebrate it for whatever they want.



First, I no longer not support gay marriages as a whole. I believe there exceptions now due to the fact that "time makes more converts than reason".

Second, I believe in common law marriage. My friends called themselves husband and wife and I acknowledge them as such even if the law does not. Therefore, I think I can accept the fact that there is no difference between common law marriage and a legal marriage in the eyes of the law except for a few tax perks.

I just don't understand why they (homosexuals) would want to define their marriage by law so badly. I've been told that it means more... but then again, my friend's common law marriage is still a marriage and means just as much.



The Church HAS NO RIGHT to "forgive" Galileo because he NEVER committed any crime worth the cruelty that he had suffered by the hands of the Church. If anything, the Church should have BEGGED for HIS forgiveness. Also, the Church "exonerated" Galileo in 1993, CENTURIES AFTER HE DIED a lonely death. The man seek and spread knowledge of the natural world and was PUNISHED for it.

If learning and spreading knowledge is such a crime, then we're ALL guilty.

Once again, the Church has no right to forgive him of anything when, clearly, the Church is at fault.

Now, did your teacher say why the Crusades was wrong? And more importantly, since your teacher said it was wrong, who's fault did he thought it was?




Again, I explained that to each his own. MLK Jr doesn't reserve the rights to the date of his birth. If on his birthday, I choose to celebrate my own birth or that of someone close to me, I can still FREELY do so WITHOUT receiving any resentment from anyone who wants to celebrate MLK Jr's birth.



Already talked about.



As for stealing, lets use a scenerio:

Say there was a piece of land that belongs to no one at first and you happened to settle upon that land with your family. Now years later, MY TRIBE and I travel from a far distance and come to your land and declare it to be ours. There are no law about, so there are no property rights. Meaning, my people can call the land ours and your family can't do anything about it even though you were there first.

I would say, you have to share that land with me because my people are the majority. Then after a while, I force your family to follow the strict laws of what is now the land of my people because I don't like how you do things on our land.

How would you feel about it? Did I not steal your land and give you no compensation for it?

so they think that by people saying merry christmas is going to make people think more about christ than happy holidays? weird. if the other people aren't "conservative christians" than that may offend them. People and religion are so strange these days!

u can argue w/ me if u want but this is what i believe...

The holiday "Christmas" was named a very long time ago... so why change it now?... IF YOU DONT LIKE IT then WHO CARES?!?! If u dont celebrate christmas then dont try to make a big issue about it... {i know that this is a stupid example}how would u feel if they say that your name was offensive to some people and they have to change it?? Yes its stupid... so changing a name like that and making it a big deal is just stupid.......

o yea... there are other religous holidays too... why dont u pick on them too?

Christmas is a national holiday... u dont see muhamid (spell check*) or a rabbi in our front yards.. when people put lights out...... (trust me, i know some people who dont even go to church and still put jesus in their yards).... and just for thought... when people sing "we wish u a merry christmas"... will people say "we wish u a happy holiday" ? so changing christmas will result in changin the whole thing.........