This stood out to me when I was skimming through the topic. Wow.

uh he was referring to the post right above his, which stated that women who are raped should be willing to carry the baby for 9 months and just put it up for adoption.

of course i agree that people should accept the consequences for their actions; people should not just be randomly f**king, expecting to not take responsibility in becoming parents. however, i also believe no man has a right to decide what a woman can do to her body.

when the day comes that a male would be able and willing to conceive and give birth, get back to me.

1. I think selfishness is a virtue.
2. The idea that a woman should "take responsibility" is, I suspect, just another manifest of the patriarchal society we live in, and further:
3. Is immensely short-sighted and revealing, as it accepts a sick form of retribution in ignoring the reality that the mother is not the only person effected in a pregnancy. If we care so much for the child, why isn't anyone talking about the repercussions felt by the child itself.
4. No one is recognizing the reality that a fetus is not at all equitable to a fully cognitive and capable human being. Would you trust a baby with your tax return?
5. This is a larger issue of social control, one that most people aren't recognizing either.
6. The government has no express right to control the body of a human being, at least, if we ever care to call ourselves "free."
7. The sexual repression inherent in the idea that any act of sex is a consent to pregnancy and "taking it to term" is absurdest and "un-American."
8. The hypocrisy of the idea that a "murder" is alright in the circumstance of rape, but not alright in any other case is spell-bindingly repugnant. To wish to impose an ethical standard as the "value of the un-born child," but to turn it over on its side and f**k it is not only stupid, it's also immensely revealing.
9. Beyond it being a hypocritical stance, it also a legal mess. How could one determine whether or a not a woman had been raped, and what would grant the state such a right?



As much as patriarchy is involved in this issue, it isn't like men alone are fighting against the idea of abortion. Women, just as much as men, want to stop this "slaughter." If anything, you should be more concerned about the church leaders implanting these ideas in the heads of their sheep-like followers.

as someone else said, i was talking about the subject at hand in the post above mine, which was rape victims. as far as i can tell, rape victims don't consent to it.

No no, you've got it all wrong JC. The rape victims are the perpetrators and the rapists are being victimized by society.

The demographic of people who get abortions list a) not being financially able to care for a baby or b) not able/not prepared to be a mother.

Do you really think people who come from those demographics would be able to provide a stable home to a baby? A baby cost over $10,000 in the first year. Not to mention prenatal care and regular checkups for the baby's health.

And even if they give up the baby, not all of the babies will get adopted. I posted a link about adoption statistics. Thousands of babies are left unadopted. And with people looking into fertility treatments or going overseas to adopt, the ones born in America aren't guaranteed to find a happy home. Even if someone argues that at least, even if they're in foster homes or orphanages, they are alive and can do being alive stuff. However, in many urban cities, the Child Services system is severely overtaxed with overloaded workers and a thin budget.

If you want the women to accept responsibilities, fine. Just think about the situation the baby gets put into. Unless you can guarantee:

1) The baby will get a happy home when put up for adoption.
2) The women will get adequate help if she decides to keep their baby. Which means, the father should be held accountable for the cost of raising a child. Like under law accountable (since you're forcing the women to be mothers, you have to force the other half to be fathers). Also, if the father isn't there, the government should provided welfare.

I don't understand why so many people have such a hard time accepting an abortion "industry" with really strict guidelines. Like, you can only have 1-2 in your lifetime and go through extensive counseling and only before the 9 weeks mark or have a damn good excuse like the baby is eating you alive.

Don't live things grow, move, eat, breathe, sleep, feel emotions, and feel pain? Well a fetus does all that well before the third trimester. I condone public exiction. It is a punishment in which someone has been found guilty of an extreme crime. Yet abortion is still leagal when the fetus does nothing; it didn't ask to be here. The fact of the matter is the fetus is here because the mother had sex. A fetus is more than "just a fetus" it is a living breathing baby who is completley innocent and can not defend itself in anyway. There are other alternatives to abortion. It's called ADOPTION. If the mother doesn't want the baby she should give it to someone who despratley wants to have a baby but can't. Remember, you were "just a fetus" too.

While it's true that a fetus is a living organism, it is up the individual to choose whether or not aborting is an option. They will have to live with the consequences (morally and otherwise).

It's not that I don't understand your stance, I do. I just don't agree with the idea that a woman should be forced to carry a child to term and go through adoption procedures because of the moral standards of others.

I am not saying that abortion is necessarily right, I'm saying that choice is right. Yes, an individual chooses to have sex and yes, there may be consequences from such an encounter. But who are you to play judge and jury? Stay strong in your own convictions, but don't force them on others.

wow. way to try and force your beliefs on others. i hate people like that. it's f**king annoying.

I can see where you're coming from. I mean, I'm agaisnt abortion but I don't believe it should be banned everywhere. It really is up to the mothers choice. All babies want to be born, but if the mother's not ready, what can you do? People are different. They will always believe in different things.

i agree with everyone one here, abortion or or not, its the mothers choice

I had to click on this link just because of the word 'graphic'. There's long standing debate on abortion in the debate sub-forum for anyone interested in reading a million and one pages of views, opinions, facts and philosophical musings.

and how would you know that they feel emotions? have you actually been able to ask a fetus how it's feeling that day? "so fetus, what's it like in there for you today?" something like that? no.

agreed.

ive seen the second pic before. it was in my friends executive summary about how she thinks abortion is wrong.

It's up to them if they want the baby murdered?

Anyway, go to the abortion thread, don't post this here.

DUDE, THEY HAVE FINGERNAILS

ALL BABIES WANT TO GET BORNED!

Essentially, that is exactly what I'm saying.

Topic merged with Debate abortion thread.

There is this thing called adoption you know

haven't you ever heard of the baby being stressed when the mother is carrying the child? That contributes to a abnormally fast heartbeat in the baby. hmmm... stressed is an emotion last time i checked.

i dont think it would be for the better good if bringing the baby into the world would ruin the lives of the mother, the baby, and possibly people around them.

and how could the mother possibly know that, i was adopted. My mother had my sister when she was 14 and gave her up for adoption and had me when she was 16 and gave me up for adoption. My sister and i met for the first time a couple of months ago and our lives have been just fine.

isn't this a debate? i was stating my case. take it how you want but it's how i feel.

I don't think abortion is right or wrong, it's all about the individual. You can't just say "abortion is wrong" and "you can give the baby up for adoption" to everything as a solution or something, because you can't always find willing parents to adopt, sometimes they don't want to have to carry the baby for 9 months and have to go through a lot of trouble. I saw that you're adopted, and that's great, and your mother had you at 14 or something and thats good, but not everyone is like that and you should be able to accept that, you're old enough.

You can't just force your opinions on people and expect them to just convert to and agree with you right away. That's not the way to go about it. Choices, choices. That's what it's all about.

The waiting list to adopt a child is Very long. I have a friend who is trying to adopt and it took my parents 2 years to get me. They were going to adopt from another country because they couldn't find an american baby.

i'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, i don't expect people to convert to and agree with what i'm saying i'm just saying how i feel. I think i may feel stronger on this issue than most people in this thread because i have am only 21 and have 2 children of my own and i couldn't imagine aborting them.

That may be, but not everyone else is like that.
Some people are cold-hearted, and some couldn't imagine aborting a child, like yourself.

People are different and you just have to let them make their own decisions.