ABORTION VERSION TWO |
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ABORTION VERSION TWO |
Feb 23 2008, 02:43 AM
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#251
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That's what she said. Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,559 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 130,200 |
This stood out to me when I was skimming through the topic. Wow.
QUOTE And why should a single mother have a baby she doesn't want? Especially if she's been raped. There are reasons why abortion is legal in most places. Those people there aren't idiots, most of them. QUOTE Ok, I'm sorry, but this is a very ignorant statement. Often times I find myself not wanting my little sister. Does that give me the right to kill her? Sometimes I don't feel like dealing with my dog. Does that mean I should kill him? So, basically, you're saying if someone doesn't "want" something, they can just kill it off or get rid of it in some form. One word: Adoption. If the woman does not want to keep the child that she had because of rape, she can put it up for adoption. It solves both issues. In the end, the woman does not have the child and the child still gets a chance at life. It's a win win situation.
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Feb 23 2008, 03:37 AM
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#252
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‹(. .)› Group: Official Member Posts: 2,367 Joined: Jun 2004 Member No: 20,089 |
If she wouldn't consent to it, then why the hell would she fornicate in the first place? uh he was referring to the post right above his, which stated that women who are raped should be willing to carry the baby for 9 months and just put it up for adoption. of course i agree that people should accept the consequences for their actions; people should not just be randomly f**king, expecting to not take responsibility in becoming parents. however, i also believe no man has a right to decide what a woman can do to her body. when the day comes that a male would be able and willing to conceive and give birth, get back to me. |
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Feb 23 2008, 05:26 AM
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#253
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in the reverb chamber. Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 4,022 Joined: Nov 2005 Member No: 300,308 |
the baby is alive and helpless the mother is required to take resposiblility for what is haping to her body. rape or not its her job to give birth to it then she can give it up for adoption. An animal is alive and helpless, however they have no right to life. So, the qualities of being alive and helpless do not exactly equate a right to life, or any rights for that matter. I would argue that a fetus is so impersonal, worthless, and so little sentient that it is not much unlike a common animal. In fact, in many cases, the common animal is far more human-like than a fetus. Just as I have no ill feelings in knowing that animals are killed for the convienence and comfort of specific types of food, I have no ill feelings in knowing that unborn children are being aborted at the will of their mother. Until that child is born, our society has no real way to recognize it as having personhood and rights with it. Once the child is born, the mother takes a legal obligation towards its well-being, this is meaningful and useful. However, forcing a mother to treat an unborn child as if it were a full-fledged person, just like you or I, is inherently rediculous as the unborn child is so little like you or I. 1. I think selfishness is a virtue. 2. The idea that a woman should "take responsibility" is, I suspect, just another manifest of the patriarchal society we live in, and further: 3. Is immensely short-sighted and revealing, as it accepts a sick form of retribution in ignoring the reality that the mother is not the only person effected in a pregnancy. If we care so much for the child, why isn't anyone talking about the repercussions felt by the child itself. 4. No one is recognizing the reality that a fetus is not at all equitable to a fully cognitive and capable human being. Would you trust a baby with your tax return? 5. This is a larger issue of social control, one that most people aren't recognizing either. 6. The government has no express right to control the body of a human being, at least, if we ever care to call ourselves "free." 7. The sexual repression inherent in the idea that any act of sex is a consent to pregnancy and "taking it to term" is absurdest and "un-American." 8. The hypocrisy of the idea that a "murder" is alright in the circumstance of rape, but not alright in any other case is spell-bindingly repugnant. To wish to impose an ethical standard as the "value of the un-born child," but to turn it over on its side and f**k it is not only stupid, it's also immensely revealing. 9. Beyond it being a hypocritical stance, it also a legal mess. How could one determine whether or a not a woman had been raped, and what would grant the state such a right? QUOTE when the day comes that a male would be able and willing to conceive and give birth, get back to me. As much as patriarchy is involved in this issue, it isn't like men alone are fighting against the idea of abortion. Women, just as much as men, want to stop this "slaughter." If anything, you should be more concerned about the church leaders implanting these ideas in the heads of their sheep-like followers. |
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Feb 23 2008, 01:01 PM
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#254
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I'm Jc Group: Mentor Posts: 13,619 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 437,556 |
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*Steven* |
Feb 23 2008, 01:06 PM
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#255
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No no, you've got it all wrong JC. The rape victims are the perpetrators and the rapists are being victimized by society.
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Feb 23 2008, 04:25 PM
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#256
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Sing to Me Group: Member Posts: 1,825 Joined: Apr 2004 Member No: 10,808 |
So you admit that in a sense that's complete selfishness. To murder a human being that belongs to you and your body, because it's your body. Even though you knew for a fact that there's a percentage or a possibility that you could get pregnant. Yeah? Let's clarify what selfishness is, for the young and uneducated: selfishness: 1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others. 2. characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives. 3. concerned chiefly or only with oneself 4. stinginess resulting from a concern for your own welfare and a disregard of others If she wouldn't consent to it, then why the hell would she fornicate in the first place? The demographic of people who get abortions list a) not being financially able to care for a baby or b) not able/not prepared to be a mother. Do you really think people who come from those demographics would be able to provide a stable home to a baby? A baby cost over $10,000 in the first year. Not to mention prenatal care and regular checkups for the baby's health. And even if they give up the baby, not all of the babies will get adopted. I posted a link about adoption statistics. Thousands of babies are left unadopted. And with people looking into fertility treatments or going overseas to adopt, the ones born in America aren't guaranteed to find a happy home. Even if someone argues that at least, even if they're in foster homes or orphanages, they are alive and can do being alive stuff. However, in many urban cities, the Child Services system is severely overtaxed with overloaded workers and a thin budget. If you want the women to accept responsibilities, fine. Just think about the situation the baby gets put into. Unless you can guarantee: 1) The baby will get a happy home when put up for adoption. 2) The women will get adequate help if she decides to keep their baby. Which means, the father should be held accountable for the cost of raising a child. Like under law accountable (since you're forcing the women to be mothers, you have to force the other half to be fathers). Also, if the father isn't there, the government should provided welfare. I don't understand why so many people have such a hard time accepting an abortion "industry" with really strict guidelines. Like, you can only have 1-2 in your lifetime and go through extensive counseling and only before the 9 weeks mark or have a damn good excuse like the baby is eating you alive. |
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Apr 19 2008, 10:20 AM
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#257
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 83 Joined: Feb 2005 Member No: 97,525 |
QUOTE your perspective is skewed. you go on and on about the degradation of america and its government, yet you condone public execution. i find it funny how you overtly state your disdain for capitalism and communism, but some of your opinions of what should and shouldn't be acceptable can be found in both. anyway, my opinion on the fake article: personally, i don't have a problem with it. i'm about 70% pro-choice, which basically means, although i would find it unnecessary and idiotic to have an abortion when the pregnancy is a result from engaging in consensual sexual intercourse (or, as in the article, any form in which the woman is intentionally impregnating herself), i still believe the would-be mother has the right to abort. maybe it's because i don't believe a fetus is fully "alive" until ~third trimester, but that's discussion for another thread. ;o Don't live things grow, move, eat, breathe, sleep, feel emotions, and feel pain? Well a fetus does all that well before the third trimester. I condone public exiction. It is a punishment in which someone has been found guilty of an extreme crime. Yet abortion is still leagal when the fetus does nothing; it didn't ask to be here. The fact of the matter is the fetus is here because the mother had sex. A fetus is more than "just a fetus" it is a living breathing baby who is completley innocent and can not defend itself in anyway. There are other alternatives to abortion. It's called ADOPTION. If the mother doesn't want the baby she should give it to someone who despratley wants to have a baby but can't. Remember, you were "just a fetus" too.
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Apr 19 2008, 10:31 AM
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#258
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Tick tock, Bill Group: Administrator Posts: 8,764 Joined: Dec 2005 Member No: 333,948 |
While it's true that a fetus is a living organism, it is up the individual to choose whether or not aborting is an option. They will have to live with the consequences (morally and otherwise).
It's not that I don't understand your stance, I do. I just don't agree with the idea that a woman should be forced to carry a child to term and go through adoption procedures because of the moral standards of others. I am not saying that abortion is necessarily right, I'm saying that choice is right. Yes, an individual chooses to have sex and yes, there may be consequences from such an encounter. But who are you to play judge and jury? Stay strong in your own convictions, but don't force them on others. |
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Apr 19 2008, 10:35 AM
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#259
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yan lin♥ Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 14,129 Joined: Apr 2004 Member No: 13,627 |
wow. way to try and force your beliefs on others. i hate people like that. it's f**king annoying.
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Apr 19 2008, 10:56 AM
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#260
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That's what she said. Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,559 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 130,200 |
I can see where you're coming from. I mean, I'm agaisnt abortion but I don't believe it should be banned everywhere. It really is up to the mothers choice. All babies want to be born, but if the mother's not ready, what can you do? People are different. They will always believe in different things.
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Apr 19 2008, 11:38 AM
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#261
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(′ ・ω・`) Group: Official Designer Posts: 6,179 Joined: Dec 2004 Member No: 72,477 |
i agree with everyone one here, abortion or or not, its the mothers choice
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Apr 19 2008, 12:46 PM
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#262
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Addict Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,918 Joined: Jun 2007 Member No: 538,522 |
I had to click on this link just because of the word 'graphic'. There's long standing debate on abortion in the debate sub-forum for anyone interested in reading a million and one pages of views, opinions, facts and philosophical musings.
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Apr 19 2008, 12:49 PM
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#263
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yan lin♥ Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 14,129 Joined: Apr 2004 Member No: 13,627 |
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Apr 19 2008, 01:06 PM
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#264
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<joke> inside </joke> Group: Official Member Posts: 2,283 Joined: Oct 2006 Member No: 470,590 |
While it's true that a fetus is a living organism, it is up the individual to choose whether or not aborting is an option. They will have to live with the consequences (morally and otherwise). agreed. ive seen the second pic before. it was in my friends executive summary about how she thinks abortion is wrong. |
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Apr 19 2008, 02:44 PM
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#265
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Sarcastic Mr. Know-It-All Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,089 Joined: Dec 2003 Member No: 29 |
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Apr 19 2008, 02:46 PM
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#266
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Senior Member Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 4,095 Joined: Jul 2005 Member No: 171,080 |
ALL BABIES WANT TO GET BORNED!
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Apr 19 2008, 03:02 PM
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#267
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Tick tock, Bill Group: Administrator Posts: 8,764 Joined: Dec 2005 Member No: 333,948 |
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Apr 19 2008, 06:52 PM
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#268
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 83 Joined: Feb 2005 Member No: 97,525 |
At first, I thought abortion should be outlawed. Though, now that I think about it, it makes more sense that it should be allowed. Like, forza up there, I don't like the idea of ending a baby's life, but it may be better than letting it live a horrible life. Not to mention it could ruin the mother's life, when in school and the such. And I guess it would help prevent the population from going up so fast. People keep saying, "Quality of quantity." There is this thing called adoption you know |
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Apr 19 2008, 06:56 PM
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#269
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 83 Joined: Feb 2005 Member No: 97,525 |
and how would you know that they feel emotions? have you actually been able to ask a fetus how it's feeling that day? "so fetus, what's it like in there for you today?" something like that? no. haven't you ever heard of the baby being stressed when the mother is carrying the child? That contributes to a abnormally fast heartbeat in the baby. hmmm... stressed is an emotion last time i checked. |
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Apr 19 2008, 07:02 PM
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#270
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(′ ・ω・`) Group: Official Designer Posts: 6,179 Joined: Dec 2004 Member No: 72,477 |
i dont think it would be for the better good if bringing the baby into the world would ruin the lives of the mother, the baby, and possibly people around them.
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Apr 19 2008, 07:28 PM
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#271
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 83 Joined: Feb 2005 Member No: 97,525 |
and how could the mother possibly know that, i was adopted. My mother had my sister when she was 14 and gave her up for adoption and had me when she was 16 and gave me up for adoption. My sister and i met for the first time a couple of months ago and our lives have been just fine.
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Apr 19 2008, 07:29 PM
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#272
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 83 Joined: Feb 2005 Member No: 97,525 |
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Apr 19 2008, 07:37 PM
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#273
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metalmouth hoee Group: Member Posts: 786 Joined: Aug 2007 Member No: 566,794 |
I don't think abortion is right or wrong, it's all about the individual. You can't just say "abortion is wrong" and "you can give the baby up for adoption" to everything as a solution or something, because you can't always find willing parents to adopt, sometimes they don't want to have to carry the baby for 9 months and have to go through a lot of trouble. I saw that you're adopted, and that's great, and your mother had you at 14 or something and thats good, but not everyone is like that and you should be able to accept that, you're old enough.
You can't just force your opinions on people and expect them to just convert to and agree with you right away. That's not the way to go about it. Choices, choices. That's what it's all about. |
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Apr 19 2008, 07:55 PM
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#274
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 83 Joined: Feb 2005 Member No: 97,525 |
The waiting list to adopt a child is Very long. I have a friend who is trying to adopt and it took my parents 2 years to get me. They were going to adopt from another country because they couldn't find an american baby.
i'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, i don't expect people to convert to and agree with what i'm saying i'm just saying how i feel. I think i may feel stronger on this issue than most people in this thread because i have am only 21 and have 2 children of my own and i couldn't imagine aborting them. |
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Apr 19 2008, 07:56 PM
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#275
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metalmouth hoee Group: Member Posts: 786 Joined: Aug 2007 Member No: 566,794 |
That may be, but not everyone else is like that.
Some people are cold-hearted, and some couldn't imagine aborting a child, like yourself. People are different and you just have to let them make their own decisions. |
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