If a mod ever commits an offense, how should it be handled? Should we treat the offense as we would any other? Or should we give a harder/easier punishment? I've seen mods break rules before, and nothing happens to them simply becasue they are mods. I feel taht we should be objective when it comes to enforcing the rules, and that we should treat a mod the same way we would treat any other member.

Well, since we know the mods should have the same punishments as a regular member, we can assume that we'll use verbal warnings, suspensions, etc. However, I think if a mod continually commits an offense, they should be removed from their position. (This should only be used as a last resort.)

If the community guidelines expect more of mods, then shouldn't we give them harsher punishments? (My opinion.)

I think the rules should apply the same way, with the exception that if a mod gets a suspension, they are automatically demoted.

There are several admins, so the other ones could easily suspend a misbehaving admin. The only problem is that we run into some issues of control. Theoretically, micron has complete control of the board; what happens if he commits an offense? And if it is his board, can he really commit an offense?

Two admins...does that include micron? I mean, he has full control too, doesn't he?

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He's not an admin. Only an advisor. I'm not completely sure if he has full control or not...

I agree, though. Just because we are mods does not mean we get special privilages for breaking the rules.

Well, we're arguing semantics. Generally speaking, anyone who has full or nearly full control of something is an administrator. The fact is, there are a number of people who are at the very top and, in a sense, are above any rules; but there are several of them with equal powers, which act as a check.

I don't think it's a huge issue at any rate, because such people are not likely to grossly violate any rules, and even if they do, there's little that can be done to stop them, even if we have policies in place.

well, the onus is really on the other moderators.

you have to be confident enough to confront a fellow mod. i know in the past there have been issues with people being 'afraid' of 'popular' members (ah teh revolution days...), so you all will have to REALLY toughen up

i do think that, in general, whether rightly or wrongly, members with high post counts or who are well known are treated less harshly than newbies. however, i personally dont see why, as lon gas it is not constant, it is a major deal for these members to occasionally break the spamming rule, and enjoy themselves... that is what CB is really for. ENJOYMENT.

i think mods should be entitled a degree of leniency under this same principle

Are you referring to the recent incident in which you were called out for having personal conversations with tweeak in various threads?

that would be my major example, yes, but it has also happened with others, for instance justin (sadolakced_acid) and jose (solipsist) that i can think of off the top of my head.

I don't mean to call you out specifically, but since you brought it up, I'm going to use your example since it is a fairly good example. (I hope you understand where I'm coming from.)

To be honest, I think this is an example of exactly what I am talking about when I say that all members, regardless of experience or position on cB, need to be held to a higher standard. Again, I don't mean to call you out specifically, but sometimes you and tweeak do get into spam-like conversations in threads that could be better handled over IM or PM's. You might not see it as a distraction, but others do. However, you're very seldomly called on it because you have been around a lot and tweeak is a mod; however, you know very well that if a member who had been here for, say, a month or so, or only had maybe fifty posts, did the same thing, there'd be a dozen people, undoubtedly some of them mods, who would instantly respond with "Don't spam."

It is the duty of the people with more posts counts and more experience on cB to set an example for new members. This definitely includes mods. Mods should hold themselves to a higher standard. You should never see a mod going off on a long personal conversation in a thread that has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand. Mods, and experienced members, should try their best to set an example.

While that is a good argument for holding mods to a higher standard and punishing them more severely, they are also just normal people after all. They want to have fun, too. So I can understand not wanting to hold mods to tougher standards, which is why I take the position that they should be held to the same standards as a normal member, but should not be "let off the hook" for offenses that other members would get warned for. Note that this means that other mods do need to take an active role in policing themselves, and have the nerves to stand up to other mods.

Furthermore, allowing relaxed rules for long-term members and mods creates a sort of "clique" on cB that makes it seem as though people are more important than others merely because they have been around here longer. People talk about the "drama" on cB all the time--well, if you want to see the cause, just look at the various cliques that have popped up around here in an effort to make some people seem more important or otherwise privileged than other members. That is something we most certainly do not need and do not want to encourage. Therefore, I think that the same standards that apply to regular members must apply to mods and admins--no more, no less.

(And please, I hope that no one gets the feeling I am specifically picking on certain members. I am merely using an example that has been brought up--I certainly do not hate or even dislike anyone I used in my example. I'm also not saying that everything I said in my post strictly applies to those I mentioned--while I used an example, mostly I'm speaking in a broad sense. I hope no one takes my post in an offensive manner because it was not meant to be delivered in the spirit of a personal attack.)

i dont mind you using me as an example, its a good one.

i will defend myself personally by saying that my PMs dont work (i KNOW why, i just dont know how to fix it, which is infuriating) and nicki is unable to use a messenger feature, and then move on from that.

i dont feel that members who have higher post counts should necessarily be held to a lower standard than other members. mainly, i was just observing that it is happening regularly.

and i agree about setting a good example to newbies... however i think i disagree on what constitues a good example. personally, i want to present an atmosphere on CB where people follo the rules most of the time, but can occasionally let their hair down and just have fun. as for drama, i understand why people complain about it, bu tpersonally i believe that drama strengthens the cb community rather than damages it.

a community has its conflicts, and the resolutions of these conflicts, and moves on from it.

Now, I consider myself to be a pretty good mod. And yes, I fully hold myself to the standards of other members. Hovever, I am generally more lenient on spam conversations than most others. Why? Because I understand that it is not always possible to communicate with other members off the boards themselves. I don't have AIM, or any other messanger for that matter, so that's infuriating. Most people get to know each other that way, and I'm fairly isolated. Thus, if I want to be included in anything, I have to talk through the boards. And also, as convenient as PMs are, they're really not the best method. For one, you can only have 2 way conversations. If I'm talking to, say, Shauna and Justin, it does me no good to be told to use PMs or AIM, because for a 3-way conversation, neither of those methods is going to work for me. I don't care about my post count- it would be about as high even if I didn't have the occasional spam fest (which are few and far between, by the way). While I don't expect people to fully ignore the fact that James and I occasionally converse, I think it should also be understood that we have a history and extroridnary circumstances. But I'm not going to suspend members for something I do- yes, that would be hypocrisy. Steven doesn't count. Steven is an ctual blatant spammer. He and his posse got IP banned for real spamming, and now that he's back, he has yet to make any posts that aren't spam. Yes, there is a difference! If spam chats become aneveryday occurance, yes, problem. But for the occasional one, I see it as no big deal, honestly. How do you intend to build a community if we can't talk to one another? Whatever happened to the fun cb? I'm one of the oldest mods here at this point, and very rarely has my judgement been questioned. If someone wants to demod me for talking to my best friend, that's bullshit. This is becoming ridiculously rule-oriented.

Oh, and also, I certainly am not more lenient on older, more established members. When I see newbies spamming, I try to give them a chance to redeem themselves, because how is cb ever going to survive if we drive away every new member? If they repeatedly ignore me, they will be punished accordingly. Just like everyone else.

^

i love you.

i also feel like having a spam chat as some sort of rebellion.

i wont, but, but you know...

Well, Nicki, why can't you install an instant messaging feature? I've always wanted to know. And James, you can always talk to an admin about it or something.

Also, I agree with Michael. We should hold mods to the same degree that we hold regular members. As in, mods are subject to the same consequences as a regular member.

Do you really think I'm stupid enough to use that as an excuse without a good reason? It's not like I don't want to install AIM, or even use AIM express. It's a damned lot easier to hide my history than it is to hide an installed program. The last time I downloaded AIM, I got a virus. That combined with the fact that they've explicitly banned me from it means that if I tried it again, I wouldn't be allowed on the computer at all. That includes typing things, and since I can't very well get by in school without computer access, that is so not a chance Im willing to take. (Apparently AIM = people I don't know who are going to come rape me. cb is the same, but like I said, I can hide that more easily). I used to use AIM express, but then it would slow down my computer so badly I'd have to restart after about half an hour of it. Now I have so many popup blockers that even if I disable temorarily what seems like all of them, I still won't be able to access it.

I don't make up petty excuses.

A good as that sounds, it frankly does not make sense to be able to discipline a mod in the same way.

nicki cant because her rents wont allow it.

and i would talk to an admin, but i dont have any of their contact details outside of pms (ah a catch 22) and the problem isnt CB, its my computer

like nicki said, little spam fests are nothing. people can just ignore them or read them for enjoyment.

but back to the mod/admin thing, who exactly is going to step forward and call them out? will regular members have to do it because other mods arent going to say "nicki and james took up 3 whole pages in a topic in the lounge talking about cigarettes and drinking vodka". i doubt you can name one mod that would do that except for maybe the fact that they dont like the other party. given, most of the mods are close and seem to get along fine.

so the question raised is, who is going to call someone out? we dont have our own police force and i doubt anyone would want to be on it because they would undoubtably be the most hated group on cB.

i would SO be on a police force!

anyway.

james, you would SO be hated by most.

actually, i dont think you would.

i guess id do it too...thats kinda why i brought it up.

oh, look, a common example of a spam fest.

too bad im a mod in here and dont care.





alright, that was a joke, but i would be on the police force. dun dun dun.

No one likes a tattle tail.

We can't really very well go around warning each other. If we are punished every time someone slips up, who is going to be left? It's like a f**king game of Mafia.

At this point, I am assuming this topic is largely directed at me, because as a whole, mods don't make that many offenses. But are you really going to be as spiteful as to warn me for talking to James? Are you going to forget this easily my history of dedication and good judgement just because some spiteful rule breakers can't let it go that I'm not perfect because it makes their own crimes seem pettier? Have you forgotten that you can't be modded if you've been warned? You can't honestly think that everyone who's ever been a mod has a spotless record. Just because you can't see the forest through the trees does not mean that you have to do spiteful and/or unfortunate things just because you resent others.

There will be no police force or anything like it. period.

i say we drop it and keep things as they are. no one is going to want to come here if we make this like a concentration camp and if you spam, you have to dig holes for 7 days straight.

oh, but what if there is, miss nicki?

Honestly, if people keep complaining about it, maybe Junsun should add another board for just conversation with post count off. Even though this whole "problem" is a bit exaggerated.

//edit//

And it wouldn't only be nicki and james in there, if you read the other versions on anonymous shoutouts, the entire thing was conversations. It was just Nicki, Justin, James, and myself that were called out (conversations between Nicki and james, and conversations betwen Nicki, Justin, and I.)

^
whats the point in turning the post count off if its just another board? if he creates another board, in other words, turning the post count off will not effect cB because its a whole new forum in its self.

^

oh.. we TRIED teh spamming where it didnt affect post count, in forum games.

that thread was closed as 'it still affects ppd'