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monster
QUOTE(RAWRstephishere @ Nov 2 2007, 06:38 PM) *
Prove there is a God.



I'm creating this thread to see if I myself can try to answer questions that question or even contradict myself and the religion that I believe in.

Here's how it goes, all of you ask me questions about Christianity, and I'll try my best to answer them with the little theological knowledge that I know.
brooklyneast05
good topic idea

first though,
are u someone who takes the bible 100% literally or not?
Sandraaa
Wow, brave one dude! flowers.gif

OK. Here's mine: I've been told so many times that I'm doomed, that my destiny is in hell because I don't believe in God/doubt his existence. Well, I don't understand the concept of 'believing in God'. How can you believe in someone with whom you haven't had any contact; physical or mental? (this isn't a question directed to you).

Question; why am I doomed for doubting?
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 12:53 PM) *
good topic idea

first though,
are u someone who takes the bible 100% literally or not?


We are taught that the Bible is God-Breathed. It is known that the Bible was superintended ( God guided the authors to write the story ) composed, ( they were active, not passive ), without error ( perfect ) and that they were the original writings.

So being that the Bible is God-breathed, it means that God breathed his word into the authors, meaning they are his literal words, so the Bible must be taken literally.

Of course, this has a few exceptions with the obvious metaphors that it gives, ( Matthew 5:29, 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. )
Sandraaa
^ Above you. sad.gif
monster
QUOTE(Sandraaa @ Nov 3 2007, 01:00 PM) *
Wow, brave one dude! flowers.gif

OK. Here's mine: I've been told so many times that I'm doomed, that my destiny is in hell because I don't believe in God/doubt his existence. Well, I don't understand the concept of 'believing in God'. How can you believe in someone with whom you haven't had any contact; physical or mental? (this isn't a question directed to you).

Question; why am I doomed for doubting?


You are not necessarily doomed for doubting. This is bad theology in itself, and is mainly our faults as Christians who say the right things at the wrong time.

But if you want to truly know why non-believers generally all have to go to hell ( sadly ) is because of the fact that God is holy. He is so holy that he cannot be near any type of sin at all, nor be a sinner himself; even if he were to be next to sin, it would be a contradiction to himself. That's why there is Jesus as a walking board through the gap of one side to the other.

-edit

Also, I wouldn't know if you were to be truly doomed or not. I'm not God. ;)

-edit again

I just wanted to add that everyone doubts. Literally everyone doubts. It doesn't matter if you doubt or not. It's about whether or not you go back to Him, whether or not you see certain things going on.

Sandraaa
I also find it strange that someone'll consider him/herself as holy but w/e.

So God is automatically condemning me for my beliefs? If it isn't his way, then hell? I thought he was loving. Isn't he the one who talks about forgiveness?
You should know, we're not alike. There are people who decide to believe without understanding why. There are people, Christian friends of mine who go to church out of habit, who fast because they're used to it, who have no clue WHY they believe in God.

Personally, I find it stupid to believe in something/someone without completely understanding and knowing the concept.
brooklyneast05
why is there suffering to such an extent? if god is all powerful, why couldn't he step in. i know there's the whole thing about preserving our free will and what not, but still. the holocaust for example, did 6 million jews need to die? he could have stepped in earlier and our free will would have still be intact, and millions of innocent people would have been saved

which also makes me wonder why hitler was even born. if god is omniscient and omnipotent then he knew before hitler was born what would happen. if i was all knowing, and i was going to have a kid with someone, and i knew that they would turn out to be the next hitler...i wouldn't do it. i wouldn't have a kid
Sandraaa
Podo, I read all your edits. Man, haha! laugh.gif
monster
QUOTE(Sandraaa @ Nov 3 2007, 01:10 PM) *
I also find it strange that someone'll consider him/herself as holy but w/e.

So God is automatically condemning me for my beliefs? If it isn't his way, then hell? I thought he was loving. Isn't he the one who talks about forgiveness?
You should know, we're not alike. There are people who decide to believe without understanding why. There are people, Christian friends of mine who go to church out of habit, who fast because they're use to it, who have no clue WHY they believe in God.

Personally, I find it stupid to believe in something/someone without completely understanding and knowing the concept.

This is true, and this causes many Christians to cripple and to wander with many doubts. This often happens because of again, bad theology and because as a Christian, we are told to equip ourselves with the Bible and to truly learn it. I personally believe that all Christians should learn some basic theology so they can debate and discuss with others ( i.e nonbelievers ) about the whole concept of Jesus, without talking only about " Jesus loves you, blah blah blah. "

God is love. Let me give you an example. I love children ( I hope you do, too! ) so thus I hate abortion. I hate abortion with a passion because I love children. God is perfect. That is why he is two-dimensional. He is a lover and a judge. He judges sin fairly without bias or bribery. He loves all without judgment or prejudice.

And yes, I know we're all different. Many Christians go to church just because whatever. It's just another routine, and another schedule, and another " thing to do. " I would accredit this to many of them not knowing what Christianity is really about.
Sandraaa
God is love. OK. So, what's up with Christians dying of horrible diseases? What's up with poverty? Like someone said, can't He push his magical buttons (over imagining probably) and prevent these?
What is he trying to prove? shrug.gif

Edit//

In response to your response (pinch.gif) to JC's post:

But God does choose his favorites. There are people who he saves from disastars. It makes me wonder about how fair he is.
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 01:14 PM) *
why is there suffering to such an extent? if god is all powerful, why couldn't he step in. i know there's the whole thing about preserving our free will and what not, but still. the holocaust for example, did 6 million jews need to die? he could have stepped in earlier and our free will would have still be intact, and millions of innocent people would have been saved

which also makes me wonder why hitler was even born. if god is omniscient and omnipotent then he knew before hitler was born what would happen. if i was all knowing, and i was going to have a kid with someone, and i knew that they would turn out to be the next hitler...i wouldn't do it. i wouldn't have a kid


Suffering is unfortunately, necessary for humans. For example, many humans learn from pain and suffering. ( Ever been burned by fire? )

Through suffering comes eventual progress. We are still using a lot of technology that still is based off WWII designs and inventions. But that really doesn't justify all the suffering, I know.

But this is human nature. If God were to be here to help us all the time when we are hurt, then eventually we would become soft...almost jelly-like. We wouldn't be able to anything without God. God gave us free-will, and the will to do whatever we want. So others will abuse this, and others will become a victim to this. So basically, God doesn't help us because we need to become stronger. We need to be able to fight for ourselves, to some extent.

But does that really justify the killing and almost near extermination of millions of JEWS? GOD'S OWN PEOPLE? Not necessarily, I wouldn't know. But again, like I told sandraaa, if I knew everything, I'd probably abuse it, like all humans.
monster
QUOTE(Sandraaa @ Nov 3 2007, 01:22 PM) *
God is love. OK. So, what's up with Christians dying of horrible diseases? What's up with poverty? Like someone said, can't He push his magical buttons (over imagining probably) and prevent these?
What is he trying to prove? shrug.gif


Just because you are Christian doesn't mean you will always be safe, healthy, and strong. This would attract people to God for all the wrong reasons. God wants people to come on their own accord, and also knowing that being a Christian means to suffer much. Look at Jesus, he suffered. A lot. That really honestly says a lot. If Jesus suffered, you're going to be in a hell of a lot of trouble if you're a Christian.

You know, a light will been seen most clearly when it's in a dark place. America is in a state of spiritual-death. Look in third world countries, where food is always never there, death is always there, happiness is always never there. You hear amazing stories of the Holy spirit working within everyone and God's love is truly being shared there.

Humans tend to forget and have that " I don't need you anymore, God. " when things get easy.

-edit

That's called divine interjection. Why does God save one person and not the other? I don't know. God has a plan for that person, though. Obviously his plan worked if you know that somehow God saved some person, right?

-edit again

And I wouldn't necessarily say it's a favorite. God is 2 dimensional, remember that! He doesn't love one person more than the other.
Sandraaa
It sure looks as though God chose Africa to be the poorest continent in the world.

Why can't he send a freaking proof? Why do we have to have faith? I find that pathetic; believing without seeing. I mean, basically, it's a life or death situation here, YET he chooses to let us see for ourselves.

On judgement day or whatever it's called, he'd be like: I told you so.

Ha! Nice God.
monster
QUOTE(Sandraaa @ Nov 3 2007, 01:36 PM) *
It sure looks as though God chose Africa to be the poorest continent in the world.

Why can't he send a freaking proof? Why do we have to have faith? I find that pathetic; believing without seeing. I mean, basically, it's a life or death situation here, YET he chooses to let us see for ourselves.

On judgement day or whatever it's called, he'd be like: I told you so.

Ha! Nice God.

It may take a while to understand this, but unfortunately this is how it goes. You have to see without seeing.

If you look closely enough, you can see God working through to people. Sandraaa, your idea of religion is not exactly....well...religion. Religion is believing in seeing the invisible.

It's not generally the question of "can you see?". It's the question of "can you feel?"
brooklyneast05
why is the bible so sexist?

there's multiple verses claiming women should be silent, women shouldn't hold authority over men, men rule over women, women should be submissive.

u can see this even in church today, when do they ever hold the highest positions
Sandraaa
Well I don't feel anything. I guess I'm doomed then.

I agree with the above post. In some churches, women are forbidden to take the lead in any important activity. shrug.gif
brooklyneast05
QUOTE(Sandraaa @ Nov 3 2007, 12:49 PM) *
Well I don't feel anything. I guess I'm doomed then.

we're doomed together, don't worry
even though i'd point out that god already knew we would question him, because he is all knowing. is this god's will that we don't blindly accept him?

confusing
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 01:47 PM) *
why is the bible so sexist?

there's multiple verses claiming women should be silent, women shouldn't hold authority over men, men rule over women, women should be submissive.

u can see this even in church today, when do they ever hold the highest positions



There were many instances of God using women to lead over Israel. Even in the times of the book of Judges, where Israel needed a great leader to help them to get back spiritually and back together as a nation, God used a woman to help create a revival in Israel and to lead Israel.

There are many instances of women taking control and leading.

I wouldn't necessarily call that sexist.
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 01:51 PM) *
we're doomed together, don't worry
even though i'd point out that god already knew we would question him, because he is all knowing. is this god's will that we don't blindly accept him?

confusing

Yes, God knew there were going to be many others who rejected him.

This is his bitter-sweet gift to you. It's yours to use it accordingly.
brooklyneast05
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."--1 Tim. 2:11-14

" Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands."
Ephesians 5:22-33

eh i don't know. i still see those as only instances. i don't see why women being equal in power should on be an instance. and her being submissive should be all the time
monster
QUOTE(Sandraaa @ Nov 3 2007, 01:49 PM) *
Well I don't feel anything. I guess I'm doomed then.

I agree with the above post. In some churches, women are forbidden to take the lead in any important activity. shrug.gif


You will eventually feel God's call to you. This may come in the form if when right before you go to bed, you feel rather empty. You feel like you need a sense of belonging. You feel that you're just doing the same tasks over and over and over again, knowing you are eventually just going to die and your life will slowly dissapear from others.

With others, it's a different feeling. It's the call that so many people have tried to have answered, for example, all those do-it-yourself kits, 101 classes, 10 step books, all trying to tell you that your life can have purpose in 200 pages.

All that yearing that humans have been searching for is God's calling to you.
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 01:55 PM) *
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."--1 Tim. 2:11-14

" Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands."
Ephesians 5:22-33

eh i don't know. i still see those as only instances. i don't see why women being equal in power should on be an instance. and her being submissive should be all the time

It's a metaphor. It's a guideline that families should be intact with each other and together submitting to one rule, and that rule could come from consensus.
monster
By the way, there are many female pastors who lead huge congregations of nearly 5 thousand people per church. I wouldn't call that an instance, either.
brooklyneast05
how do we know what's metaphor and what's literal then? just all the outrageous claims the bible makes we should call metaphors and anything that makes sense we should call literal?

it's confusing, when god is loving i should take it literal. when things like this are said then i should take it as a metaphor.

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14)

monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 02:03 PM) *
how do we know what's metaphor and what's literal then? just all the outrageous claims the bible makes we should call metaphors and anything that makes sense we should call literal?

it's confusing, when god is loving i should take it literal. when things like this are said then i should take it as a metaphor.

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14)

What's all literal and metaphor? I don't know. I just know certain things are to be taken as metaphors and others literally.

The quote you have taken from the bible is referring to something what is called a "ban" is Hebrew. It's referring to a spiritual war between Satan and God. God is saying he will have no mercy, pity, nor spare Satan and his minions.

Anyone can take a quote and put it to their own use. Look at the Davidians from Waco and many other cults. They took single verses and made it to their own benefit.
brooklyneast05
in peter when it says that slaves should be subject to their masters with all reverence is that a metaphor too?


i definitely don't think anyone should take the bible literal. it seems to have tons of contradictions, and things that just don't make any sense. whenever something doesn't make sense then i'm told it's just a metaphor.

like in genesis, when god creates the earth. it lists that this is what happens on day one, this is day two, this is day three, then all the sudden on day four god makes the sun and the moon. so how were the first three days divided into days? we judge days by when the sun comes up and goes down, that clearly wasn't happening since the sun and moon didn't exist yet.

things like this make no sense to me. but the answer i always get is, well god can do what he wants, or god works in mysterious ways. ok that's great, but backing up everything with "god just did it" isn't answering anything for me. it's a completely circular argument, god can do whatever he wants. that doesn't cut it for me
NoSex
Why doesn't god heal amputees?
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 02:13 PM) *
in peter when it says that slaves should be subject to their masters with all reverence is that a metaphor too?
i definitely don't think anyone should take the bible literal. it seems to have tons of contradictions, and things that just don't make any sense. whenever something doesn't make sense then i'm told it's just a metaphor.

like in genesis, when god creates the earth. it lists that this is what happens on day one, this is day two, this is day three, then all the sudden on day four god makes the sun and the moon. so how were the first three days divided into days? we judge days by when the sun comes up and goes down, that clearly wasn't happening since the sun and moon didn't exist yet.

things like this make no sense to me. but the answer i always get is, well god can do what he wants, or god works in mysterious ways. ok that's great, but backing up everything with "god just did it" isn't answering anything for me.


Like I said earlier, there are many times where people have used the quotes in a wrong way to prove their point, like with the Southern plantation owners saying the quote from Peter to the black slaves trying to justify all that.

There are many points in the Bible where things can only be explained through the worldy tongues, meaning days, weeks, hours. In the spiritual realm, there is no real day. No hours, nor weeks. They are put there so that we as humans can get a general idea of it.

Let me give you an example. Angels are spirits. You cannot see them. Look at Isaiah 6:2. "Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying."

Angels cannot be seen, but how did Isaiah see them? This is not how angels look. It's an example of anthropomorphism. ( No, not furries ) He was shown everything from a worldly view so that others can understand. If the Bible was to be explained all in spiritual terms, noone would be able to understand.

monster
QUOTE(NoSex @ Nov 3 2007, 02:20 PM) *
Why doesn't god heal amputees?

God does not have to heal everyone. Just because you are a Christian does not mean you are going to be healed.

brooklyneast05
QUOTE(Podomaht @ Nov 3 2007, 01:21 PM) *
Like I said earlier, there are many times where people have used the quotes in a wrong way to prove their point, like with the Southern plantation owners saying the quote from Peter to the black slaves trying to justify all that.


but the bible says slavery is ok. it gives instructions on how we slaves should act. why would god be ok with slavery?

i would think the bible would preach against slavery rather than explaining slaves should obey their masters
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 02:23 PM) *
but the bible says slavery is ok. it gives instructions on how we slaves should act. why would god be ok with slavery?

Slaves were, in that time, and in other countries NOW are still prevalent. The Bible is not saying that slavery is OK. But what it IS saying, that if you do have slaves, to treat them fairly, honestly, and with care. This showed that the Bible was way ahead of times because nobody cared about slaves in ancient times.
brooklyneast05
QUOTE(Podomaht @ Nov 3 2007, 01:25 PM) *
Slaves were, in that time, and in other countries NOW are still prevalent. The Bible is not saying that slavery is OK. But what it IS saying, that if you do have slaves, to treat them fairly, honestly, and with care. This showed that the Bible was way ahead of times because nobody cared about slaves in ancient times.


what?????
it's still not saying slavery is wrong though. it's not ok to just say that u should treat ur slaves good. u shouldn't have slaves in the first place! if the bible was ahead of it's time this is what it would be preaching
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 02:28 PM) *
what?????
it's still not saying slavery is wrong though. it's not ok to just say that u should treat ur slaves good. u shouldn't have slaves in the first place! if the bible was ahead of it's time this is what it would be preaching


What's right in one country is wrong is another. It's all I can say the most about this topic. I wish I knew more on this subject, but I don't.
brooklyneast05
QUOTE(Podomaht @ Nov 3 2007, 01:30 PM) *
What's right in one country is wrong is another. It's all I can say the most about this topic. I wish I knew more on this subject, but I don't.

well i think that's extremely messed up. slavery is not right no matter where it is. slavery is wrong, it's always been wrong. god surely knows this, and any god that teaches how to treat slaves rather than that we shouldn't have them isn't a god that i want to worship.

wow, yeah, i don't know. things like this are things i can't just ignore.
S-Majere
Damn Podomaht, you've impressed me with this topic.

How do other religions fit in with Christianity? Are they false idols or do they all stem from a common belief?
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 02:33 PM) *
well i think that's extremely messed up. slavery is not right no matter where it is. slavery is wrong, it's always been wrong. god surely knows this, and any god that teaches how to treat slaves rather than that we shouldn't have them isn't a god that i want to worship.

wow, yeah, i don't know. things like this are things i can't just ignore.

You know, I agree with you, though. I wish I knew the entire idea on this, but I don't. I really don't agree with slavery, like most people should, but I'm going to try to keep an open mind for other countries where slavery still really exists.

But that said, I'll try to find some more information on this topic and get back to you on it.
monster
QUOTE(S-Majere @ Nov 3 2007, 02:33 PM) *
Damn Podomaht, you've impressed me with this topic.

How do other religions fit in with Christianity? Are they false idols or do they all stem from a common belief?

Christianity stems from Judaism, that's for sure. Other religions, such as Muslim seems to base it's religion off parts of Judaism and Christianity. Buddhism, Hindi, and others I can't explain. There really seems to be no correlation between those.
brooklyneast05
everyone believes their god is the one true god. how do u know that ur god is and all these other people god isn't. none of them seem to be more provable than the other. it's also strange to me how demographic religion is. had many of these christians grown up somewhere else they would be another religion and would believe in it with the exact same conviction. that alone indicates to me that something is wrong here.

which is why i dislike when people point out that i'm going to hell because i don't believe blah blah blah. who's to say they're worshiping the true god. just because it's what they were born into believing doesn't make it right. they can just as easily be going to hell if they die and it so happens they should have been worshiping the wrong god this whole time.
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 02:47 PM) *
everyone believes their god is the one true god. how do u know that ur god is and all these other people god isn't. none of them seem to be more provable than the other. it's also strange to me how demographic religion is. had many of these christians grown up somewhere else they would be another religion and would believe in it with the exact same conviction. that alone indicates to me that something is wrong here.

which is why i dislike when people point out that i'm going to hell because i don't believe blah blah blah. who's to say they're worshiping the true god. just because it's what they were born into believing doesn't make it right. they can just as easily be going to hell if they die and it so happens they should have been worshiping the wrong god this whole time.

Again, American-Christians tend to whip out the " you're going to hell " card wayyy too much. Why? Because they're not God. Who are we to judge?

And also, yeah, makes me glad to know Christ without having to deal with another religion. Another question I cannot answer.
Sandraaa
How do we know that God's a man?
karmakiller
Wow, this is deffinately an interesting topic. Going back the women having no power thing, I always thought that it was against god for women be pastors of the chruch. When I used to go to church that's what I was taught. I was also taught that god won't save homosexuals. But he's the one who makes them like that.
monster
QUOTE(Sandraaa @ Nov 3 2007, 02:55 PM) *
How do we know that God's a man?

To err is man. Thus, God cannot be man. God is perfect.
monster
QUOTE(karmakiller @ Nov 3 2007, 02:56 PM) *
Wow, this is deffinately an interesting topic. Going back the women having no power thing, I always thought that it was against god for women be pastors of the chruch. When I used to go to church that's what I was taught. I was also taught that god won't save homosexuals. But he's the one who makes them like that.


That's Catholicism. We're talking about Christianity, but I guess Protestant to be specific. Martin Luther and John Calvin did a lot with the reformation of the Church.

Christians welcome men, women, blacks, whites, pinks, golds, anyone to be a leader in a church.

And no, God does not make man homosexual. Man will always have tendencies to do wrong, but that does not justify homosexuality. I'm not here to bash on homosexuality or to condemn it, but God does not make homosexuals, homosexual.

Though I do believe that we as Christians have no right to say who's going to hell because they're homosexuals and whatnot. That's just wrong.
brooklyneast05
QUOTE(Podomaht @ Nov 3 2007, 02:02 PM) *
Though I do believe that we as Christians have no right to say who's going to hell because they're homosexuals and whatnot. That's just wrong.

i actually have a lot of respect for the fact that u realize that. there's so many people i know who hold religious views but can't understand that simple fact
monster
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Nov 3 2007, 03:06 PM) *
i actually have a lot of respect for the fact that u realize that. there's so many people i know who hold religious views but can't understand that simple fact


Yeah, to be honest with you, there's a lot of people we could really work with if they just hadn't been hurt by some many "Christians" who just go around saying "You're gay, go to hell."

Really stupid on their part, and makes people like me look really bad.
karmakiller
Maybe I just had a pastor who was didn't like homosexuals shrug.gif When I went through catechism my pastor told me that women couldn't be pastors and that god doesn't save homosexuals. It wasn't something I agreed with, and it played a major part in why I stopped going to church. But my pastor was against people using "bad words", hah, so maybe he was just trying to make us think like him.
monster
QUOTE(karmakiller @ Nov 3 2007, 03:13 PM) *
Maybe I just had a pastor who was didn't like homosexuals shrug.gif When I went through catechism my pastor told me that women couldn't be pastors and that god doesn't save homosexuals. It wasn't something I agreed with, and it played a major part in why I stopped going to church. But my pastor was against people using "bad words", hah, so maybe he was just trying to make us think like him.

You know, it's a sin to draw people away from God. Sounds like he's got a big count against him.
monster
Guys, I'm done for now. I'm going out for the night. I'll probably be around later tonight answer some more questions.
NoSex
QUOTE(Podomaht @ Nov 3 2007, 12:22 PM) *
God does not have to heal everyone. Just because you are a Christian does not mean you are going to be healed.


But he heals other people, right?
Why never an amputee? Does God just not care about the amputees?
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