ABORTION VERSION TWO Options

[NoSex]

lol nice strawman.

If people suddenly repudiated the belief in the inalienable right to life, there probably WOULD be chaos.

wow, yeah. it was such a straw man. so, your argument isn't that abortion is going to make people kill one another because they won't care about human life? okay, so, why again would it help society function to criminalize abortion?

OK, let's argue the law. How about the part that says that all people are endowed with the right to life?

well, seeing as the law does not recognize the fetus as a person endowed with any right whatsoever, it's kind of a worthless point. but, still, as stated before, the right to life is constantly, & under the law, negotiated by due process. so, even if the law recognized the fetus as a person with the right to life, they would not necessarily have to make illegal the practice of abortion.

[kryogenix]

wow, yeah. it was such a straw man. so, your argument isn't that abortion is going to make people kill one another because they won't care about human life?

Yes, it was a strawman. Reading comprehension; did you at least learn that when you were dicking around in school?

Here, since you seem to have a hard time wrapping your uneducated mind around this, I made a chart. There are some words on there, but I think having some pictures will help a simpleton like you understand it better.



Order in society is preserved by an established right to life. Without it, people could legally kill one another as long as they could justify its benefit to society. Abortion and an established right to life happen to coexist in our society because the law gets around the right to life by claiming that unborn children are not people and therefore have no rights.

What you are saying is that there is no inalienable right to life, therefore abortion is a valid procedure. You believe that if a mother who is 39 weeks pregnant were to jam forceps into her child's skull and then suck the brains out with a vacuum, she should not have to face any legal repercussions. How is that good for society?

okay, so, why again would it help society function to criminalize abortion?

Because it properly upholds the common belief that human beings have the right to life? Certainly you understand the value in protecting the rights for all people instead of denying them to certain classes. Laws are no good if they are not properly enforced.

well, seeing as the law does not recognize the fetus as a person endowed with any right whatsoever, it's kind of a worthless point. but, still, as stated before, the right to life is constantly, & under the law, negotiated by due process. so, even if the law recognized the fetus as a person with the right to life, they would not necessarily have to make illegal the practice of abortion.

The burden of proof would be on you to demonstrate that the right thing to do would be to kill the child. Think about the degree of difficulty involved in the capital punishment process. You would think it would be easier to justify the execution of a mass murderer than the murder of an innocent child. Yet with you, it's the other way around.

[NoSex]

The burden of proof would be on you to demonstrate that the right thing to do would be to kill the child. Think about the degree of difficulty involved in the capital punishment process. You would think it would be easier to justify the execution of a mass murderer than the murder of an innocent child. Yet with you, it's the other way around.

it's the other way around because the murderer is a person, whereas the fetus is not.

[kryogenix]

If a fetus is not a person, at what point does a fetus become a person?

[NoSex]

If a fetus is not a person, at what point does a fetus become a person?

when it's born.

[kryogenix]

So you're OK with smashing the skulls of babies and sucking their brains out with vacuums right before they're supposed to be delivered, since they're not yet born?

[fixtatik]

And ironically, late term abortions require the baby to be birthed, then shredded to pieces.

How humane...

[StrideEmpty]

Abortion is a bad thing :/

[mipadi]

Abortion is a bad thing :/

Brilliant point!

</debate>

[USCavalry]

man im glad i wasnt aborted... but my pregnancy is different, the timing is timing is all wrong and (insert self serving priorities)

[Blyat]

Imo, If a young teen or an adult who cannot take care of themselves, its almost not any better knowing that child is going to live in poor conditions and/or in abuse
Though some could say back "well they can put them up for adoption"

But its still the fact some of those parents wont do that and will keep the child no matter what the conditions are.


Do I make any sense?

In my personal opinion, I believe in self-choice and abortion, but I also respect people who don't believe in it, its just basically on how you live and your conditions.


For me, if i was in that situation (I'm a teen for the ppl who didn't know) I would prolly go through abortion due to the fact that 1) im not ready to have a kid, I know i wouldn't be able to take care of him/her and cause im small and honestly (from what my mum says) I would have difficulties carrying a child at my body figure being a small danty kid
-sorry if that sounds out of topic but having my point of view may be some reasons why women go for abortion

[azz90]

i take a phisology (sp) of sexuality class and this is one of the topics we are discusing. this is a debate i think will never be solved because people have different beliefs and will ALWAYS have different views about this or anything else.
honestly in my own opinion i think it should be illegal to have an abortion. first off in my sex class we watched an actuall abortion taking place and it was the worst thing ive ever seen in my life. i knw this may sound ignorant but before i saw the video i was already against abortion but when i saw the baby actually come out in pieces i seriously almost threw up. i was angry and hurt...but anyways i think there is NO reason to get an abortion even if you happend to get raped. yea i knw im crazy for sayin that but i have my reasons theres always adoption you dont have to go off and kill the baby...and for the people who just want to get an abortion becasue ooh your not ready, you dont have the money, you just dont want it or some other dumb reason tht person should have never had sex becasuse you knw the consequences. people go to jail everyday for killing someone or something like dogs(michael vick) but ppl arent going to jail for killing an innocent baby...yea the baby isnt born yet but its alive inside you and its a person. i think abortion is just a selfish inconciderate choice. theres other ways than to kill. Even if the mothers arent the ones actually killing the baby them and the doctors doing the procedure should be locked up. case close

[mipadi]

case close

Glad we solved that one. Pack up everybody, debate's been decided!

[azz90]

Glad we solved that one. Pack up everybody, debate's been decided!

yup...wheres your opinion? u jus come in and what? read everyone elses post n make comments that dont even relate. good job! case close

[brooklyneast05]

yup...wheres your opinion? u jus come in and what? read everyone elses post n make comments that dont even relate. good job! case close

you just come in and what? write one little paragraph, don't engage in any real back and forth debate or have to defend your paragraph, and then come to the conclusion that after 16 pages of back and forth debate that the case is closed because you said it was? good job! case closed.


wtf @ women have to endure 9 months of pregnancy as a result of a crime being committed against them. you think that's ok? you think it's fair for a woman to have to go through that because she was raped and spend 9 months being reminded every single day that she was raped? do you know how sucky pregnancy is? would you want to put your life, school, job, etc on hold so that you can go through with a pregnancy you didn't consent to? why should any woman have to do that? it doesn't matter if they can give it up for adoption, that doesn't fix the 9 months and all the sacrifices pregnant women have to make prior to giving it up for adoption.

[tokyo-rose]

wtf @ women have to endure 9 months of pregnancy as a result of a crime being committed against them. you think that's ok? you think it's fair for a woman to have to go through that because she was raped and spend 9 months being reminded every single day that she was raped? do you know how sucky pregnancy is? would you want to put your life, school, job, etc on hold so that you can go through with a pregnancy you didn't consent to? why should any woman have to do that? it doesn't matter if they can give it up for adoption, that doesn't fix the 9 months and all the sacrifices pregnant women have to make prior to giving it up for adoption.

[kryogenix]

you think it's fair for a woman to have to go through that because she was raped and spend 9 months being reminded every single day that she was raped? do you know how sucky pregnancy is? would you want to put your life, school, job, etc on hold so that you can go through with a pregnancy you didn't consent to? why should any woman have to do that? it doesn't matter if they can give it up for adoption, that doesn't fix the 9 months and all the sacrifices pregnant women have to make prior to giving it up for adoption.

Do you think it's fair for the baby to be murdered so the woman can avoid inconvenience in her life? Do two wrongs make a right?

Yes, I understand that it sucks having to bear a child that you did not consent to. But that's more an argument against rape than an argument for abortion.

No, it's not fair for the woman. But take it out on the rapist, not on an innocent child.

[brooklyneast05]

yeah but we can't take it out on the rapist. you can punish the rapist all day long and that doesn't change the fact she has to have that in her for 9 months. there is nothing to do to the rapist to fix the situation. i don't think any woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy just because a crime was committed against her.

[azz90]

yeah but we can't take it out on the rapist. you can punish the rapist all day long and that doesn't change the fact she has to have that in her for 9 months. there is nothing to do to the rapist to fix the situation. i don't think any woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy just because a crime was committed against her.

bro did you not read what i wrote? i said for women that have been raped it should be considered for abortion but then again it isnt the childs fought theres always other options than killing. yea, 9mnths is a long time to be carrying a burden like that...cuz i knw for myself if tht happened to me in the back of my head i wouldnt want the child because of the circumstances but honestly i just couldnt kill it because regardless having the abortion or not that is going to stick with a woman knowing she got pregnant by a rapist. MY case is still closed. And for the ones that commented on me sayin case closed stop taKing offense to damn, as u see i put "MY" case is closed meaning my opinion is not going to chance but you freely can say and do as you please. take no offense seRiously

[brooklyneast05]

yeah i read what you wrote, but i don't see how we are reading the same thing.

i said for women that have been raped it should be considered for abortion

i think there is NO reason to get an abortion even if you happend to get raped.

you said you think abortion should be considered in the case of rape? because what i'm reading says that you think there is no reason to get an abortion even in the case of rape.

as u see i put "MY" case is closed

case close

what i'm reading says "case closed" with no "my".

take no offense seRiously

no one is taking offense just because we disagree with you. it's a debate. that's the point of this thread, for people to disagree and give different opinions.

[sixfive]

That and there are still tons of debates as to whether or not the child in the woman is capable of thinking / feeling / being. While there are still conflicting moral objections for both sides, I'd say it's a lot easier to end what will be viewed as an illegitimate child that's putting a major burden on what could be a prosperous good life that both contributes to society and gives way for children later down the road. By forcing the woman to have the child then she goes through a lot of health issues, a lot of financial issues, and a lot of emotional / unable to work issues. Aborting what isn't even opening it's eyes, breathing, talking, living on it's own, is a lot less of a loss than what the woman could suffer and what the born child could suffer once it's born into a financially burdened life. Or you know, you could put it up for adoption, I'm sure it'll turn out fine.

[sixfive]

case close?

[brooklyneast05]

case close?

[kryogenix]

yeah but we can't take it out on the rapist. you can punish the rapist all day long and that doesn't change the fact she has to have that in her for 9 months. there is nothing to do to the rapist to fix the situation. i don't think any woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy just because a crime was committed against her.

I don't think any child deserves to be murdered just because a crime was committed against its mother.

So to "fix" the effects of a rape, you're going to commit a murder? That's like burning your house down to cover up the spot on the wall that your 3 year old drew on with crayon. Sure, you get rid of one problem, but you've created a much bigger one.

Again, you make a great case for why rape is f*cked up, but not a great case for why abortion should be allowed. I agree that no one should be forced to go through a pregnancy resulting from a rape. But I think the way to go about doing this is to prevent the rape from happening in the first place, rather than to murder an innocent child.

[brooklyneast05]

well yeah i would prefer no one was raped either, but how are we going to prevent every rape?