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Muscle Confusion
superstitious
post Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM
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P90X, things like that. Is there really any merit to muscle confusion? Or is the term just glorifying changing up the workouts every few days or so?
 
tokyo-rose
post Jun 2 2010, 01:48 PM
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I'm going to wait for Reidar to read this and explain what muscle confusion is.
 
superstitious
post Jun 2 2010, 01:50 PM
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Haha. Me too. :) I'm having a difficult time sifting through the different sites and such, especially since most sites that discuss this are trying to sell you something.
 
none345678
post Jun 2 2010, 01:54 PM
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The guys I know switch off days. Legs one day then back the arms (or what the f*ck ever lol) but I always figured it was so you weren't constantly working on one part.

Either way I think they specifically are just using it as a marketing device.

*waits for Reidar*
 
tokyo-rose
post Jun 2 2010, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE(superstitious @ Jun 2 2010, 02:50 PM) *
Haha. Me too. :) I'm having a difficult time sifting through the different sites and such, especially since most sites that discuss this are trying to sell you something.

I think P90X is just a fad that became popular a few years ago. I have a friend who does HIIT, high-intensity interval training, but that approach has been around for way longer than P90X and is effective for him. He wants me to join him in sprinting and I'm like, "lol what, I have no stamina or strength compared to you. T__T;;"
 
sixfive
post Jun 2 2010, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE(spambot @ Jun 2 2010, 01:54 PM) *
The guys I know switch off days. Legs one day then back the arms (or what the f*ck ever lol) but I always figured it was so you weren't constantly working on one part.

Yeah when you work out you tear the muscle then it rebuilds so if you work out day after day it's bad for it. IIRC the only muscle set exempt from that is the abdominal group.

Correct me if I'm wrong...


*waits for Reidar*?
 
tokyo-rose
post Jun 2 2010, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE(serotonin @ Jun 2 2010, 08:46 PM) *
Yeah when you work out you tear the muscle then it rebuilds so if you work out day after day it's bad for it. IIRC the only muscle set exempt from that is the abdominal group.

That sounds about right. "Muscle confusion" is just alternating the exercises you do as not to injure any one muscle irreversibly, and a marketing scheme like Rebecca thought.
 
Matsumoto
post Jun 3 2010, 12:07 AM
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I've done P90 before and I really liked it. I like how it incorporates all kinds of exercises i.e. power yoga, kick boxing, and using weights. I'm not a huge fan of doing ab exercises, but I don't mind doing ab ripper. Plus, I don't always have time to get to the gym, so it's very convenient to be able to pop a DVD in and just work out in my apartment.
 
fire
post Jun 3 2010, 04:14 AM
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You hit different muscles groups so you dont completely screw over your body. Say if I did a heavy back squat one week, I will go very easy on my dead lifts, and vice versa.

[edit] nvm
 
Reidar
post Jun 3 2010, 11:13 AM
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Lol, Tony Horton just took the extremely basic concept of periodization and coined it as "muscle confusion" to make it sound novel. Yeah, variety is good. If you do the same thing over and over again then the law of diminishing returns comes into play. You make progress by disrupting homeostasis and eliciting a change in your body's equilibrium. "Muscle confusion" has no monopoly on this fundamental premise. It's outlined through much more scientific detail in professor Vladimir Zatsiorsky's Science and Practice of Strength Training.

Basically, any routine that doesn't have you doing the same workout every day is using "muscle confusion", although again, this is such a basic principle that there isn't really any one technical word for it. It's like calling eating "muscle nutrient infusion".

P90X as a program sucks. I did a write-up on it awhile ago:

"The choice of exercises are poor. Upright rows internally rotate the shoulders to their limit and aren't a very healthy movement in the long-run. Same with chair dips (which also suck because they have no range). Tricep kickbacks are mediocre because gravity does much of the work for you. They include these two for tris but no Tate press (http://ironechelon.webs.com/TatePress.htm)?

The "Ab Ripper" workout contains sit-ups ("Crossed Leg, Wide Leg Sit Up") which are bad for your back and target the hip flexors, not the abs. There's something even worse called the "V-Up Roll-Up". You can see that at about 1:13 here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7tcqp_p9...x-part-2_school

That would be even worse on your vertebrae than regular sit-ups. In sit-ups, you anchor your feet down and pull with your back, activating the psoas attachment and grinding the vertebrae in your back. With these, you don't even have your feet to anchor down and pull with your hip flexors. It's all back, and I can see this leading to very herky-jerky tendencies in novices.

There's a weird theme against the posterior chain, which are your hamstrings, glutes, and lower back. Your hammies in particular are very important, moreso than the quads for many respects. The workout "Legs and Back" doesn't mean "back" as in your posterior chain, but your upper back, as in your lats. Huh? Does anybody over there know anything about resistance training? Instead of hamstring movements like bootstrappers, there are more pull-ups and chin-ups. There's something called a "deadlift squat", which is deadlifting on one leg, but by itself that diminishes hamstring usage because you'll have to bend your leg more to balance.

The nutritional plan has unexplainable carb cycling periods for no reason. In one phase you'll go low-carb, and the next will introduce carbs again. This is done without increasing fat intake to compensate for the lack of glycogen you'll be experiencing from the low-carb portions. A carb deficit causes your body to convert alanine into glucose in the absence of regular glycogen, which catabolizes muscle. More credible low carb diets like the Anabolic Diet by Pasquale or the Paleo Diet will at least advocate increasing lipid intake to give glycogenic processes an alternative source of glycogen."

QUOTE(serotonin @ Jun 2 2010, 07:46 PM) *
Yeah when you work out you tear the muscle then it rebuilds so if you work out day after day it's bad for it. IIRC the only muscle set exempt from that is the abdominal group.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
*waits for Reidar*?


Your abs apply to this but on a slower basis because their composition contains more slow-twitch Type I muscle fibers, which are more resistant to microtrauma. Same goes for your calves. Recovery is still needed but perhaps on a less strict timeframe.
 
sixfive
post Jun 3 2010, 11:58 AM
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that's what i meant to say
 
superstitious
post Jul 13 2010, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE(Reidar @ Jun 3 2010, 11:13 AM) *
Lol, Tony Horton just took the extremely basic concept of periodization and coined it as "muscle confusion" to make it sound novel. Yeah, variety is good. If you do the same thing over and over again then the law of diminishing returns comes into play. You make progress by disrupting homeostasis and eliciting a change in your body's equilibrium. "Muscle confusion" has no monopoly on this fundamental premise. It's outlined through much more scientific detail in professor Vladimir Zatsiorsky's Science and Practice of Strength Training.

Basically, any routine that doesn't have you doing the same workout every day is using "muscle confusion", although again, this is such a basic principle that there isn't really any one technical word for it. It's like calling eating "muscle nutrient infusion".

Thank you so much. I was getting A LOT of urging to try this program out and I was hesitant on spending money on it because it seemed like common sense to me, but I wasn't sure if I had over simplified it somehow.

QUOTE
The "Ab Ripper" workout contains sit-ups ("Crossed Leg, Wide Leg Sit Up") which are bad for your back and target the hip flexors, not the abs. There's something even worse called the "V-Up Roll-Up". You can see that at about 1:13 here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7tcqp_p9...x-part-2_school

That would be even worse on your vertebrae than regular sit-ups. In sit-ups, you anchor your feet down and pull with your back, activating the psoas attachment and grinding the vertebrae in your back. With these, you don't even have your feet to anchor down and pull with your hip flexors. It's all back, and I can see this leading to very herky-jerky tendencies in novices.

Ab related exercises confuse the hell out of me in general. I never feel like any ab exercises I try do any good. I have a small torso (I'm slightly over 5 feet tall) and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it or not. I also have a bad back, so I feel like no matter what type of ab exercise I try, it ends up hurting my back. I know, whine whine whine. I'd really like to try something that would work though. Maybe I'm not doing the exercises properly. I've read about using medicine balls for abdominal exercises. Any thoughts on that?

Also (and this has nothing to do with my original post, so I apologize), any advice for cardiovascular exercises for someone that has bad knees? I have mild arthritis and unless I'm walking, most cardio exercises end up causing sharp pain in my knees and my ankles (occasionally).
 
iRapediCarly
post Aug 4 2010, 02:58 PM
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Insanity > P90X
 
Reidar
post Aug 14 2010, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE(superstitious @ Jul 13 2010, 03:26 PM) *
Thank you so much. I was getting A LOT of urging to try this program out and I was hesitant on spending money on it because it seemed like common sense to me, but I wasn't sure if I had over simplified it somehow.
Ab related exercises confuse the hell out of me in general. I never feel like any ab exercises I try do any good. I have a small torso (I'm slightly over 5 feet tall) and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it or not. I also have a bad back, so I feel like no matter what type of ab exercise I try, it ends up hurting my back. I know, whine whine whine. I'd really like to try something that would work though. Maybe I'm not doing the exercises properly. I've read about using medicine balls for abdominal exercises. Any thoughts on that?

Also (and this has nothing to do with my original post, so I apologize), any advice for cardiovascular exercises for someone that has bad knees? I have mild arthritis and unless I'm walking, most cardio exercises end up causing sharp pain in my knees and my ankles (occasionally).


Exactly. You should use exercise balls, but don't let the bounce feed into your momentum.

Cardio for someone with bad knees: ellipticals, biking, swimming, running on grass, aerobics. There's also a certain kind of running form that caters to this where you should be shifting your feet in a more horizontal "shuffling" motion rather than dropping straight with each step.
 

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