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ABORTION VERSION TWO
Melissawilson5
post Jul 20 2006, 12:54 AM
Post #51


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^^^ Yer Der I no I was jus expressing my own opinion does't concern u
 
forza
post Jul 20 2006, 01:27 AM
Post #52


out to life...
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QUOTE(Mells-Star @ Jul 20 2006, 12:54 AM) *
^^^ Yer Der I no I was jus expressing my own opinion does't concern u


I thought I made it pretty clear that opinions aren't welcomed in this subforum. _dry.gif

EDIT// This smiley is more appropriate.

hammer.gif
 
sadolakced acid
post Jul 20 2006, 01:59 AM
Post #53


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what's with you people and opinions?

don't you get it? you are no one. no one cares what you think. if president bush were on this forum, then we might care.

but you? me? we are nobodies. so we must stick to the facts.

deal with it.
 
AngelinaTaylor
post Jul 20 2006, 09:27 AM
Post #54


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By the way, I really don't want to continue this - it's pointless. A waste of time. No one will convince anyone otherwise, because we're so damn stubborn. So that's it for me.. I quit.
 
radhikaeatsraman
post Jul 20 2006, 12:21 PM
Post #55


oooh yeah.
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Mells-Star:

Read the rules before posting in here. It clearly says to back up your opinions with facts, which you have not been doing. We don't just want you to say "ABORTION IS WRONG!!!111," we want you to show and/or tell us why. Because it's a debate. And as good debators, we have the right to reaffirm what you say or disprove it with even more facts. _smile.gif If you want to express your opinion without facts, go to a different forum please. But if you have facts, you are more than welcome to join us here.

My post is an example of a good debate post. Why? Because I linked to a thread showing why I thought you weren't posting here properly. And I gave you a semi-intelligent response in addition to that.
 
*disco infiltrator*
post Jul 21 2006, 11:19 AM
Post #56





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QUOTE(Mells-Star @ Jul 20 2006, 12:54 AM) *
^^^ Yer Der I no I was jus expressing my own opinion does't concern u


That's not what the Debate forum is for. If you try doing this again, you'll recieve a verbal warning. Please read the rules.
 
*I Shot JFK*
post Jul 21 2006, 11:22 AM
Post #57





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It REALLY frustrates me that the paper a couple of days ago has a number of interesting statistis about teen mothers which could hav ebeen used to refute some of Angelina's points

if only the recycling came on saturdays, not thrusdays... sigh.

research mode it is, then
 
*disco infiltrator*
post Jul 21 2006, 11:32 AM
Post #58





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I don't really think the main question in this debate is whether it is right to killing a living human being; we all know it's not, but rather, is a fetus considered living? If not from conception, from what point?

I don't think that a fetus is really a full-fledged human until 21 days after conception, and most abortions are before that point unless the birth would be a danger to the mother or any other exceptional case. One could say, "The fetus still feels things!" but I really don't think that should come into play. It hurts an animal when you hit it with a car and we don't arrest every person who does that. Why? The animal cannot comprehend how he is being hurt or even what being hurt means. You didn't try to hurt the animal when you ran it over. Mothers don't try to hurt fetuses either.
 
*I Shot JFK*
post Jul 21 2006, 11:39 AM
Post #59





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well, you say they dont try to hurt them, but they DO deliberately set out to have them destroyed.

which is where it differs from hitting an animal with a car.

and i totally agree that the main cause for debate is the humanity of the fetus, but that is something which it is difficult to debate factually, and lends itself to opinion, e.g. 'I don't think that a fetus is really a full-fledged human until 21 days after conception', which is valid, but isnt useful for debate, as it can be refuted with equal validity by saying, i DO think a fetus is a fully fledged human being before 21 days'

oh, and i just noticed something, did you mean 21 weeks?
 
*disco infiltrator*
post Jul 21 2006, 01:11 PM
Post #60





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Yes I did.

And, I've before posted this humongous post contianing factual information (such as the biological requirements for life) a year ago in the other thread, but I can't find it....
I was just waiting for someone to refute me and tell me it begins at conception for sure until I busted that out again.
 
*I Shot JFK*
post Jul 21 2006, 01:13 PM
Post #61





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oh good, because i suddenly registered that it seemed odd.
 
*baby_in_blue*
post Jul 21 2006, 04:11 PM
Post #62





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i think its the womans choice.. however i also think that it is as much pain to have the abortion than to have it. pinch.gif
 
no-name
post Jul 21 2006, 04:17 PM
Post #63


yawn :)
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I think it is the womans choice if she wants to or if she has a medical condition that makes it almost impossible for her to give birth
 
smoke
post Jul 21 2006, 11:46 PM
Post #64


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QUOTE(Angelina Taylor @ Jul 20 2006, 10:27 AM) *
By the way, I really don't want to continue this - it's pointless. A waste of time. No one will convince anyone otherwise, because we're so damn stubborn. So that's it for me.. I quit.

Aw man, I just got back from my 2 day vacation at the beach lol. I guess it's pointless to reply to you. I agree with you though. Thanks for being a good sport and not getting all pissed like some people.

I think it's pointless too. Both sides have really good arguments but nobody will change their mind. I've been enlightened on a few issues, but my opinion still stands, and I'll leave it at that.
 
AngelinaTaylor
post Jul 22 2006, 08:03 AM
Post #65


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QUOTE(iRock cB @ Jul 22 2006, 12:46 AM) *
Aw man, I just got back from my 2 day vacation at the beach lol. I guess it's pointless to reply to you. I agree with you though. Thanks for being a good sport and not getting all pissed like some people.

I think it's pointless too. Both sides have really good arguments but nobody will change their mind. I've been enlightened on a few issues, but my opinion still stands, and I'll leave it at that.


Yeah, after "debating" with that guy in the other thread, it was just the same thing all over. You're probably the only person who debated properly. See ya
 
ChaosPunx
post Jul 22 2006, 10:43 AM
Post #66


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I support it because i think its the womens choice if she wants the baby or not. People who dont support it should just worry about themselves not others.If you think its killing someone than dont do it. Let them get the end results.
 
*ECD & C0*
post Jul 23 2006, 01:38 PM
Post #67





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QUOTE
What is it that gives an unborn child more value than the freedom a woman has over her body?


the baby is alive and helpless the mother is required to take resposiblility for what is haping to her body. rape or not its her job to give birth to it then she can give it up for adoption.
 
NoSex
post Jul 23 2006, 02:06 PM
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in the reverb chamber.
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QUOTE(ECD & C0 @ Jul 23 2006, 1:38 PM) *
the baby is alive and helpless the mother is required to take resposiblility for what is haping to her body. rape or not its her job to give birth to it then she can give it up for adoption.


An animal is alive and helpless, however they have no right to life. So, the qualities of being alive and helpless do not exactly equate a right to life, or any rights for that matter. I would argue that a fetus is so impersonal, worthless, and so little sentient that it is not much unlike a common animal. In fact, in many cases, the common animal is far more human-like than a fetus. Just as I have no ill feelings in knowing that animals are killed for the convienence and comfort of specific types of food, I have no ill feelings in knowing that unborn children are being aborted at the will of their mother. Until that child is born, our society has no real way to recognize it as having personhood and rights with it. Once the child is born, the mother takes a legal obligation towards its well-being, this is meaningful and useful. However, forcing a mother to treat an unborn child as if it were a full-fledged person, just like you or I, is inherently rediculous as the unborn child is so little like you or I.
 
*kryogenix*
post Jul 23 2006, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE(forza @ Jul 16 2006, 5:24 AM) *
Like I said in the other thread: this is a dead horse that needs respite -- badly.

But to answer the question posed: no, abortion should not be outlawed, for two reasons:

1) Realism: abortions are necessary at times. I don't like the idea of terminating a potential human being, but I don't like the idea of a baby having a baby even worse. How successful is a newborn with a 15 year old mother from the slums expected to be? If you can justify forcibly ruining several lives for the sake of your beliefs (of which almost 100% derive from your religion), I've lost faith in this society's capacity to use common sense.

2) Litigation's sake: we have to uphold the validity of Supreme Court decisions at all costs. Sure, we review/question them all the time, but rarely do we overturn them. To do this would be to undermine the very foundation upon which our justice system resides. We can't compromise the power of the Supreme Court without titanium proof of its necessity (which we don't have).


1) Two wrongs do not make a right. Not having access isn't what ruins someone's life, it's having underage sex that does.

2) Saying "Well, if we overturn a Supreme Court decision, we'll look stupid" doesn't really fly. If a mistake was made, it must be fixed, not swept under the rug and ignored.
 
sadolakced acid
post Jul 23 2006, 08:24 PM
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america is not the land of the moral high ground. it's the land of the free.

ergo, we should uphold the freedom to choose an abortion, rather than the morality of denying it.
 
emanni
post Jul 23 2006, 08:31 PM
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One word.
Adopiton.
Its better than killing a Human Being.ermm.gif
I bet u if that baby could talk, It would just rather Get put in the adoption system,
and then look on the bright side. when you get older you will see the Baby. so whats the point of kiiling it.
 
AngelinaTaylor
post Jul 23 2006, 08:37 PM
Post #72


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^ Um the fetus isn't a human being in the period when a woman can get an abortion. And it's not murder, because murder is killing a human being through the use/initiation of physical force. Seeing how it's just a potential human being, I don't see your argument.
 
sadolakced acid
post Jul 23 2006, 08:43 PM
Post #73


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banning abortions isn't really a life changing event for me, but it's more of the principle.

if you want to ban abortions, then sex ed should be taught in 6th grade, and condom machines avalible in all bathrooms middle school and onwards.

okay, the second part maybe not so much. but you do know people that take virginity pledges are more likely to have unsafe sex thier first time?

kids need to be educated beyond "don't do it till you're married". becuase that doesn't work.
 
forza
post Jul 24 2006, 02:11 AM
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QUOTE(kryogenix @ Jul 23 2006, 6:38 PM) *
2) Saying "Well, if we overturn a Supreme Court decision, we'll look stupid" doesn't really fly. If a mistake was made, it must be fixed, not swept under the rug and ignored.

And I quote:
QUOTE
We can't compromise the power of the Supreme Court without titanium proof of its necessity (which we don't have).

If this debate is continuing to drone on and drone on, it is because neither side can really prove the other one wrong. Yet, in 1973, a group of justices who were much more qualified than you and I to decide, through logistics, legality, and experience whether legalizing abortions was plausible or not, decided (7-2) for us that it is the right of the woman to terminate a pregnancy. Who are we to say that they were wrong? Imminent jurists like Harry Blackmun, William O. Douglas...

My favorite kicker is that it was decided well into the term of one of the more established conservatives the presidency has ever seen.

So, I'll reiterate one more time: unless the sun sits at high noon on our doubt, the Supreme Court's decision must always stand.
 
*I Shot JFK*
post Jul 24 2006, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jul 24 2006, 2:43 AM) *
banning abortions isn't really a life changing event for me, but it's more of the principle.

if you want to ban abortions, then sex ed should be taught in 6th grade, and condom machines avalible in all bathrooms middle school and onwards.

okay, the second part maybe not so much. but you do know people that take virginity pledges are more likely to have unsafe sex thier first time?

kids need to be educated beyond "don't do it till you're married". becuase that doesn't work.

and furthermore, although admittedly i dont remember my source, 93% of virginity pledges are broken.
 

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