Mosque next to Ground Zero in New York, Should it be allowed ? Options

[Uronacid]

EXTREME MODERATES FINAL DESTINATION

You still need to be opinionated to a certain extent.

On a side note, I really enjoy listening to Rush Limbaugh. I agree with a large percentage of the things that he says. Mostly, he's great entertainment.

[mipadi]

Tell us what it says about all conservative ideology. Don't let my mind wander, I need to know.

Okay. We can start with the fact that conservative groups like the Tea Party actually have some level of respect for people like Pamela Geller, who have batshit crazy ideas. And I don't mean batshit crazy political ideas that happen to disagree with mine, but ideas that are purely insane -- ideas like "Obama is a Nazi". Remember all those Tea Party rallies where people morphed Obama into Hitler? For a group that values the past over progress, many conservatives seem to have little understanding of history -- and no sense of irony, either. What's more Nazi-like: Obama's health care plan, or Bush/Cheney's unilateral assault on two sovereign nations, and the legacy of torture -- and disrespect for the rule of law -- that they left behind? And let's talk about the Constitution for a second: conservatives generally tend to have respect for a strict reading of the Constitution, but none of them seemed to care that Bush/Cheney regularly ignored it. Or how Republican lawmakers passed the Defund ACORN Act, which was clearly unconstitutional. Where was respect for the Constitution then?

Or look at the respect among conservatives for people like Glen Beck, who is not only ignorant, but inconsistent. I don't have a link handy, but Jon Stewart had a great bit on Beck's criticism of the imam involved with the Park51 mosque. In August, Beck criticized the imam for making a comment along the lines of "perhaps America's foreign policy was partly responsible for 9/11" -- but this is something that Beck himself said back in April. I'll dig up the link if you want, because Beck's hypocrisy is amazing. His only consistency is his inconsistency. He's a man that's too stupid and too self-centered to even form a coherent political world view, and yet, conservatives actually listen to him. Contrast him to Bill O'Reilly, who actually is smart, but regularly spews lies or disingenuousness.

Or simply look at the inconsistency of a typical conservative viewpoint. I already mentioned the issue with the Constitution, but another conservative issue is, supposedly, budget reform. Conservatives denounced Obama's health care plan, which wasn't actually going to increase the budget deficit, but few conservatives are willing to suggest we should cut the military budget, which is, at best, roughly 20% of our federal budget and almost 40% of tax revenues [1], and has been rising 9% year-over-year in the past decade. Not to mention the waste -- the expense of the largely useless F-22 program is a great example. To my knowledge, Rand Paul is the only major conservative to suggest we should cut military spending. Because it's better to waste money on a stealth fighter that doesn't work, then let poor people have access to health care.

I won't even delve into the issue of the hard-on that many conservatives have for Sarah Palin.

Anyway, apologies that this post was rather stream-of-conscious. This isn't intended so much as a concise rebuttal as a mini-rant.

(Ha! How apropos: my magazine recently published a story about Glenn Beck.)

This post has been edited by mipadi: Nov 18 2010, 04:25 PM

[none345678]

This has little to nothing to do with this topic/your post but WTF Sarah Palin has a reality show.

I believe it's called the Shoot Things and Make a Jackass Out Of Myself show

[Uronacid]

Okay. We can start with the fact that conservative groups like the Tea Party actually have some level of respect for people like Pamela Geller, who have batshit crazy ideas. And I don't mean batshit crazy political ideas that happen to disagree with mine, but ideas that are purely insane -- ideas like "Obama is a Nazi". Remember all those Tea Party rallies where people morphed Obama into Hitler? For a group that values the past over progress, many conservatives seem to have little understanding of history -- and no sense of irony, either. What's more Nazi-like: Obama's health care plan, or Bush/Cheney's unilateral assault on two sovereign nations, and the legacy of torture -- and disrespect for the rule of law -- that they left behind? And let's talk about the Constitution for a second: conservatives generally tend to have respect for a strict reading of the Constitution, but none of them seemed to care that Bush/Cheney regularly ignored it. Or how Republican lawmakers passed the Defund ACORN Act, which was clearly unconstitutional. Where was respect for the Constitution then?

Or look at the respect among conservatives for people like Glen Beck, who is not only ignorant, but inconsistent. I don't have a link handy, but Jon Stewart had a great bit on Beck's criticism of the imam involved with the Park51 mosque. In August, Beck criticized the imam for making a comment along the lines of "perhaps America's foreign policy was partly responsible for 9/11" -- but this is something that Beck himself said back in April. I'll dig up the link if you want, because Beck's hypocrisy is amazing. His only consistency is his inconsistency. He's a man that's too stupid and too self-centered to even form a coherent political world view, and yet, conservatives actually listen to him. Contrast him to Bill O'Reilly, who actually is smart, but regularly spews lies or disingenuousness.

Or simply look at the inconsistency of a typical conservative viewpoint. I already mentioned the issue with the Constitution, but another conservative issue is, supposedly, budget reform. Conservatives denounced Obama's health care plan, which wasn't actually going to increase the budget deficit, but few conservatives are willing to suggest we should cut the military budget, which is, at best, roughly 20% of our federal budget and almost 40% of tax revenues [1], and has been rising 9% year-over-year in the past decade. Not to mention the waste -- the expense of the largely useless F-22 program is a great example. To my knowledge, Rand Paul is the only major conservative to suggest we should cut military spending. Because it's better to waste money on a stealth fighter that doesn't work, then let poor people have access to health care.

I won't even delve into the issue of the hard-on that many conservatives have for Sarah Palin.

Anyway, apologies that this post was rather stream-of-conscious. This isn't intended so much as a concise rebuttal as a mini-rant.

(Ha! How apropos: my magazine recently published a story about Glenn Beck.)

Beck is a bit aggravating to listen to at times. Even I have a difficult time listening to his show. I don't think I've mentioned that I've listened to Beck anyway. I mostly listen to Al Roney. You live in the capitol region. Check out AM 1300 at 2:30-6:00. He's a local conservative talk show host.

Other than Rush Limbaugh, I really don't listen to mainstream conservatives. Don't get me wrong either, I don't agree with everything that comes out of Rush Limbaugh's mouth. I find what he says entertaining and occasionally thoughtful. It's interesting to hear his point of view and try to figure out why he believes he is right.

Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin have very little to do with the Tea Party. They've ruined the Tea party by giving it a face. The point of the Tea Party was to NOT have a face or leader. Initially, it was the anonymity that made the Tea Party great. It was just a group of American's sick of the exorbitant gov't spending. That's all. Instead it became something bigger, and a bunch of meat-heads like Beck and Palin got involved. They've spoiled it.

This is one thing that Rush gets right. Rush understands that the Tea Party isn't about demographics, race, or uniformity. It's about freedom. It's about less gov't. That's all. He stay's out of the light of the Tea Party but encourages the free speech.

[mipadi]

Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin have very little to do with the Tea Party. They've ruined the Tea party by giving it a face. The point of the Tea Party was to NOT have a face or leader. Initially, it was the anonymity that made the Tea Party great. It was just a group of American's sick of the exorbitant gov't spending. That's all. Instead it became something bigger, and a bunch of meat-heads like Beck and Palin got involved. They've spoiled it.

You mean, it's a group of rich corporate backers like Koch Industries who want lower corporate taxes and lower taxes for the wealthy.

You live in the capitol region. Check out AM 1300 at 2:30-6:00. He's a local conservative talk show host.

I live in New York City, actually.

[Uronacid]

You mean, it's a group of rich corporate backers like Koch Industries who want lower corporate taxes and lower taxes for the wealthy.

Um... no that's not what I mean. I'm sure that rich corporate backers will benefit from lower corporate taxes just as we will when they buy products or use services. That cycle creates jobs.

[Stuckie]

There is no sensible reason for building a Mosque at the Ground Zero site. It likes saying, "We'll place a place of worship for our enemies next to the resting place of our very own citizens." America has turned into such a politically correct nation that it disregards the opinion of its citizens. The family members of the 9/11 victims don't want a mosque there. The reason for making one is to put islamic peoples mind at ease. America is trying to say that its not the fault of the islamic people, rather the extremists fault. But if thats the case, address the public and say it.

[sixfive]

um. your dumb. its not a mosque its a community center. have you red anything at all? maybe you should educate yourself before replying ok thanks?

[Stuckie]

Mosque or islamic community center. It makes no difference. There is about 3% of Muslim/Islamic people in New York and an even smaller percentage in Manhattan. Why build any muslim oriented structure if the demographics says otherwise. Its like making a Catholic church in Iraq. And if it's that important to have a muslim community center in Manhattan, why put in such a controversial place?

[brooklyneast05]

yeah steven, stfu. the govt should shut that shit down. why would you want separation of church and state? why should there be a mosque or community center there? it wasn't just a group of wack nut terrorists who caused 911. all muslim's collectively did, so therefore we should punish the entire religion for what they did. THIS IS AMERICA OK. THIS IS A GOD DAMN CHRISTIAN NATION. NO ONE, AND I MEAN NO ONE, SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORSHIP ANY OTHER FAIRY TALE THAN CHRISTIANITY.


smh. duh.

[sixfive]

ya u rite jc my bad i guess those websites musta been lyin when they said taht it was al quaeda that did all the bad things. they should scrap the plans the had since b4 9.11 and go somewhere else bc a lot of nerdraged white people say so

white power

[DoubleJ]

Lol. I don't know, I am for them building it, but not so close. I actually had the chance to see just how close it was to the trade center complex, and I can see why people would get upset. I mean, if they build it there, I won't lose any sleep, and I doubt that anyone truly will. People will forget about it just as quickly as people have already forgotten about Bin Laden being killed.

[Stuckie]

People are still talking about his death. Hell, people keep asking me question like I know things.

[brooklyneast05]

ya u rite jc my bad i guess those websites musta been lyin when they said taht it was al quaeda that did all the bad things. they should scrap the plans the had since b4 9.11 and go somewhere else bc a lot of nerdraged white people say so

white power

those websites were put there by the government. specifically they were put there by barack huessein osamabama.

[DoubleJ]

People are still talking about his death. Hell, people keep asking me question like I know things.

Of course people are still talking about it. That line was more of a statement towards the fact that people won't care after awhile once they finish building it and move in. For the first few days/weeks of course, but after that no one is going to really care except for a few people.