Last year in my Academic Reading & Writing class, we had a debate about whether it is acceptable or appropriate for parents to lie to their children about the existence of Santa Claus. I found it really interesting... so why not bring the debate here?

We were each given a 1897 New York Sun article as 'background information' Okay, so she gave this to us because she found it interesting and it's related to the topic. = ='':



So... yes or no?

I don't think parents should lie to their kids about Santa Claus. What's the point? To let your kids have fun and imagine? They have enough fun imagining what kind of presents they're going to get for Christmas. I'd rather not tell my children about Santa Claus at all, but of course that is unavoidable because in any school or public area there is no way to avoid the thought of Santa Claus in this country. It's a bit cruel tricking children like that, when you know in the long run they're going to find out and their spirits will be crushed. It's like how my friend's father tricked his children into thinking crazy things, about how if you eat the watermelon seeds a watermelon will grow in your stomach. Sometimes it can mess up children. I don't think we should lie to our children anymore. Santa Claus can still be there to advocate happiness and joy during the holidays, but he shouldn't advocate trickiness and lies.

WHAT, Santa Claus doesn't exists????

i think it is, i mean it brings a smile to them & presents lol
think of it as christmas spirit lol

Im glad my parents did.
I really liked tha magic of it i guess knowing that some fat guy in a red suit came through my chimney to deliver gifts.

Wouldn't they obviously be smiling and happy once they have all these new presents to play with? They don't need lies and Santa Claus to make them happy. Santa Claus doesn't bring Christmas spirit by himself. There are SO many other realistic honest icons of Christmas children have to choose from. Santa Claus is one of the most popular because people choose to lie about him and put him in movies. Lying to your children isn't ever acceptable, even if you're trying to protect them. In Santa's case, you're not protecting them, just crushing their spirits in the future. When I was told Santa didn't exist, I cried for a while. I'd rather spare children that disappointment.

It's interesting that your teacher would have used this article as "background information" as the article itself doesn't advocate a physical existence for Santa Claus. I don't know if parents actually lie about Santa. Santa's such a large part of the cultural imaginary that it's different than an outright lie. Lying would be like, telling your kid he's adopted, when he isn't. (That's a horrible example.)

The existence of Santa is important, for a lot of reasons, highlighted in that Sun editorial, so I'm not going to name them. Just read the article deeper.


The kind of Santa advocated by the Sun is supposed to counteract this kind of brash materialism. A big part of Santa is the presents, but he also represents fairness (he gives what people deserve, if you're bad, you're getting a lump of coal) and goodwill/benevolence/charity (he gives out of the goodness of his heart).

To a certain age.



But it keeps the kids behaving at most.
And so what if they cry? I mean it is kind of sad, but it isn't like someone died, or someone got hurt, they never met him or knew him, and its not like its traumatizing.

"crushing their spirits", c'mon when kids find out they are not little kid anymore... i don't think they'll cry about it, they are old enought to know and get over it.... when i found out i was like "oh, oh well im over it"

In a way when children find out Santa isn't real at a younger age, (which people like to spoil it for younger children sometimes), Santa does die to him or her. He no longer exists, he is no longer alive in their minds. When children are younger they should not be exposed to that form of trickery. Also, I would care if my child was crying. There should not be any time where you should not be concerned about a child's emotions. Even if it is over something very silly.



Christmas would not be as big as it is without this type of materialism. Santa wouldn't either. There are other, more honest ways of teaching children fairness. Say, if your child had done well in school that year, or had behaved then they would receive more presents, but you could tell them this and they would understand. In a way, it's a bad generalization for someone to say "If you've been bad you don't get anything". That's just not the reality of real life. It's also unfair because there is no way a person could do only bad things. Children, whether or not they're cold-hearted, still have love, and lying to them about getting presents from an imaginary man is NOT the healthy way to bring out love.

Santa really doesn't bring as much joy to Christmas as he is believed to. In other parts of the world forms of Christmas celebration and other celebrations are just as joyous and spiritual without Santa. It's frivolous to say "without a certain thing there is no holiday", especially since Santa has nothing to do with the true meaning of Christmas. Although, modern Christmas is more like "xmas" to most people. The meaning of "xmas" has became basically the time of giving and receiving and fun (such as decorating, and spending time with family". The world would do well without Santa.



Just because it is widely accepted and part of mostly imagination does not mean it is not a lie. All lies are lies, whether or not they are accepted. Being widely accepted does not give people the authority to lie. The definition of of a lie is "not telling the truth", and the truth is there is no such living thing that does exactly what the speculated Santa is supposed to do every Christmas. For that reason, it IS a lie.

I didn't mean it as an absolute, but okay. For the most part, I think (the concept of) Santa understands that there's no way for a child to be completely horrible all the time. Why do you think he gives presents to children and not adults? It's an acknowledgment of the magic and innocence within a child's heart. And the point is that he inspires goodness and behavior.

But I do agree, if a kid needs only Santa to be good, then the parents aren't doing their job right.

I said, "imaginary," not imagination. Santa's creation and subsequent popularity and ubiquity obviously mean that he's filling some sort of social void.

I love that I believed in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy. It's part of being a kid and I would HATE to take that away from my children.
That's like saying they aren't allowed to watch Disney movies because shit like that never happens in real life, or they aren't allowed to color outside the lines because that's not 'just-so'. I say let kids be kids and believe in things, because life is hard enough when you get older. Fond memories of baking cookies for Santa are what get some people through the hardest of nights.

Meh, I agree, I like the concept of Santa, I was just trying to be on the opposing to see if any opinions would change. Although I don't think he should fill a social void. I think us as humans need to own up to that, not an imaginary eleventy billion old man.

I think that they should lie about it, until a certain age.

No, I don't think parents should lie about the existence of Santa Claus. I think it would be more appropriate to tell kids about the actual guy, Saint Nicholas, who gave people presents and stuff, just to be nice. I mean, kids would be happy anyway, getting presents and all. And I think that Christmas overall is a happy holiday. Christmas is supposed to be the holiday of giving, not some fat old guy who comes down your chimney, eats your cookies, and gives you a bunch of presents. Some children probably don't even realize that.

It'd make more sense to tell your child/ren about Saint Nicholas and why we have this holiday.

Only when they're really little. They'll figure it out on their own.

I always use to question how santa got in our house (no chimney), my parents said through a hole in my dad's wallet. :?

Wow, this thread got a lot of responses!

coconutter (Alexandra, is it?) - You presented a lot of good points and factors, most of which my 'against' classmates brought up.While I do understand that lying is 'wrong' and that the children will get upset when they learn the truth about Santa... would it really make that huge of an affect? I mean, sure those kids might be crushed when they find out, but I personally have never heard any stories of kids suffering in the long term from discovering that Santa is fake. And so you suggest that people should just flat out tell your children that Santa Claus, in fact, does not exist? Wouldn't taking away the image of a magical being be even more crushing? Children will get disappointed if you tell them right off the bat. They'll have to go to school and face all the other children and all their ideas of Santa - they could feel left out and alone, or even ruin the other children's images of Santa.


I want to read and quote more, but my eyes are getting tired LOL so I'll just give some of my own points:

The idea of a Santa Claus promotes imagination for children. Taking away Santa right from the beginning would be erasing an essential stage of imagination. When they do find out he's not actually real, it's just a step from distinguishing the differences between reality and fantasy - they're going from one stage to another in terms of maturity. Plus, some kids grow to realize (on their own) that Santa is a game on some level - even though they know he's not real, they still act like he is because it's fun. It's the same concept as fairy tales... most children know they're just stories, but enjoy acting them out and going along with them.

Some people in my class argued that using Santa Claus is a cheap way for parents to get their children to behave all year long. I don't at all think it's a way to avoid responsibility - Santa Claus is simply a smart parenting device/technique.

hey i think its fine, it give the child glow and exciment
and ususally when they dont believe it anymroe their at the age were their heart wont be broken

like i loved it when my parents were all like "get in bed or santa clause wont come" cause i would be like "oh god im going now"!!!

i still play around even being 16 cause its so FUN

I have decided to continue reading haha...


(Alex, please don't think I'm targeting you LOL. I know you're just trying to argue opposing Santa, but you bring up some really good points and I want to argue back. =P)

You seem very heated about the mere thought of a little 'lie'. So does this mean that you would rid your child of all fairy tales and movies because those could potentially give your child false hope of always having a happy ending (or false impressions of love, for that matter)? I mean, those stories tell lies. (And I just realized I kind of repeated what Krystal said LOL.)

I like the way you worded that, Carrie.

But that story is no fun!

I'm strongly against the idea of Santa Claus, and the novelty that is known as Christmas. There have been times growing up where we didn't even have a tree, other times when there was nothing under it in the morning, as well as times where my parents were able to provide well. That false hope children have for Kris Kringle, is the same false hope that blindly leads adults into religious heresy. Why fuck with a child's mind like that?

I tend to approach these things with an air of "fantasy." Like Brandon, I fear that too many children get caught up in the materialistic attribute of Christmas and that just isn't what the season is about. Having said that, I hate the idea that there is a "season" when everyone should be nice and loving towards each other. We should be like that year round, not just a few months of the year or have it emphasized a few months of the year.

With Iz, I don't talk much about Santa Clause. He's brought it up a few times but either it "sank in" late because of his autism or he just tends to look at things from a very literal point of view. Either way, I do not push the idea of Santa Clause with him nor do I think he's missing out on anything by not having that type of sentimentality.

So is it acceptable for parents to lie about the existence of Santa Claus? It is not within my rights to question what other parents do with their children, as long as they do not harm them (and even then, there are limits).

My question would be is it harmful for parents to instill upon them the validity of Santa Clause as being a real being that brings them presents everywhere? That truly depends. I do not think that it is harmful as long as these things remain playful and that a sense of reality is also impressed upon them. I would also like to see children imbued with the concept that kindness is a year round thing and that presents, in their material forms isn't the equivalent of personal gain - it's what we do and how we act towards each other that's truly important.

i don't plan on telling my kids santa clause is real. he's everywhere at christmas though, so i'll still have to explain who he is and why he's is all over the place i suppose. they'll be good because i tell them to, not because they are under the delusion that a fat white man will bring them presents if they are.


-

Alex or Alexandra


I really don't think it takes the fun out of Christmas. I found happiness in all the TV shows and sneaking around trying to find presents. Santa just doesn't play as important a roll as he seems to. Sure, children are excited waiting for Santa in the morning, but there are so many other things to be excited about on Christmas, that the absence of Santa will not be missed with all the other distractions; especially since young children have no attention span. Another point is, more than likely a child will ask for a present from Santa that is hard for a parent to find (I remember asking for a fur real friend, and they weren't manufactured anymore). A lot of kids are sad because when they don't receive the present they specifically asked for, the realism of Santa is questioned. There is no way to avoid this from happening with children because once they see something they want, they have to have it or they're upset automatically; that's why there's screaming little kids in the grocery store. Plus, I'd rather have my name attached to Christmas gifts, so they know that I've noticed them being good, not Santa. It's not bribery, it's positive reinforcement. Such as getting extra money for good grades, it's incentives, just like everything else in life. Anyway, even though they know Santa isn't real, they can still have an imagination, they can still pretend he does exist, just like they pretend unicorns do.

The only problem is: Santa's everywhere! In school, stores, in imaginations, everywhere! There's no way to shelter your child from this. I'd rather tell my child the truth though, he or she will quickly learn more lessons if told this certain thing.

I can't believe your teacher was making this comparison; and so obviously. Further, I can't believe none of you caught on to it.

As goes Santa Claus? It's f**king harmless. It's a lie that's routinely revealed as such. Not only is it a magical and fanciful childhood character which teaches good behavior and fairness, it is also a demonstrative tool towards true critical thinking and skepticism. Imagine, your parents can lie to you? You, as a human being, are fallible! You can mistake fantasy for reality! It's a very powerful thing.

Haha, well it wasn't really 'background information'. She just told us she stumbled upon this article a few days before, and thought it would be an interesting debate topic.

I should change the main post, huh? xD

Everything you just said made sense! I agree with you 100%.

Well if we let parents make kids believe in god at such young ages, why not? Either way it takes a way some freedom.

The whole point of christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. (Thats not what it originally was, but thats for another topic.) Why would you need a fictional character for a holiday that is supposed to be for Christ? And if you're not christian, and you dont believe in christ, you shouldn't celebrate the holiday anyway. If you want a day specifically for the giving and receiving of gifts, pick a random date and call it "Gift Day". Why would anybody want to purpously raise their kids to be ignorant? And when they find out, wonder why their child seems less innocent than when they were blinded by lies? Just my opinion.

why should whether you are christian or not have any bearing on santa clause? two unrelated things. you already pointed out that christ wasn't born then anyway so why should those who believe in christ be celebrating it?


christians just confuse me.

i cried when my mom told me the truth

so ironic.

p.s. christmas is a national holiday - secular persons can celebrate it just as easily as anyone else... not to mention, it isn't like the christians hadn't stolen the winter solstice from the pagans in the first place anyways... f*ck you & you're mother f*cking "gift day."

I think there is much worse things a parent can do than lying about Santa Claus. It doesnt matter.

Remove Santa Clause from this materialistic holiday. Stop consumerism!

Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus. If you are going to celebrate Jesus's birth, you dont need Santa Clause.

I agree. The Trinity is bad enough, but what's worse is that we've actually partnered Jesus with Santa. Santa's like the god of presents

I personally dont celebrate Christmas, because its too commercial. I found that out when we were coming on hard times, and my mom had to choose between presents and the light bill. If you have to make a choice like that, during "the season of giving", you can have it. Seems more like the "season of taking".

I don't understand why people get in such an uproar about stupid little questions like this.

Not only does it stimulate a child's mind, but it also teaches children to be more honest and logical. I'm sure there's more.

Children do not think like adults. That's why they are children and fed bullshit stories like this. They have eager minds. They are more apt to use their imagination that adults. It teaches them the reward system which works well with children because they crave discipline. Have you ever noticed that alot of children who grow up without discipline in their lives end up to be more socially inapt and socially "unacceptable?"

It's a story. Nothing to get all hot and bothered over. If a parent wants to tell their children that Santa's real... so be it. Who are you to decide for them?

No, Santa is the commercialized version of St. Nicholas. Same person just a different name. And the giving of presents is to represent the magii who gave presents to Jesus as a child. It's just not said that way because it would be "politically incorrect."