I completley agree with you. I mean sure, mods should have somewhat more of a say, but really the members need to be involved. The members are what keep cB alive and ahead of blogring. I truly think that if we want to get a better community, we need to listen and be open to other suggestions made by worthy members.

I also think that some mods need to not get soo defensive.
Justin is not blaming you at all. He just wants you to let the community in on some decisions

PS-JUSTIN, QUIT AND I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND BRING YOU BACK!

you implied the hitler comparison, so i adresed it before anyone could pick up on it

and it was a generic 'you', not specific to you psonally. i apologize.

and as for the whole 'following the crowd thing', the only way to find that out is to test it

why do the mods hold the members in such low regard that they assume that we will do a cattle impression when given the chance to express our opinions

I stand with James. The flag of revolution is abroad.

Aw, thank you Rachel <3.

I.....don't believe this.

what, that people disagree?

shocking, isnt it

No. The whole voting for mods idea. It would exactly be a popularity contest. As someone had pointed out, most people will vote for the people they know so that they won't feel bad about not voting for their friends. And frankly, many people do see this as a popularity contest. However, the choices for the new mods prefectly show that it is not. And the a few or several of the applicants that didn't make it are "popular" and are complaining about the choices and wondering why they were not modded. I, personally, cannot understand why one person was not modded because I haven't seen them do anything wrong (until the new mods were posted). I had no participation in the selection process so I wouldn't know, but I have been noting the behavior and personalities of a few applicants. They are quiet (and excited) about cB hiring, but afterwards, they start complaining that they didn't become mods. It pisses me off. Well, you know, you must've done something wrong that the supermods and admins thought you aren't mod material. You're not as "high" or superior as you thought.

That was just me rambling, and note that "you" is not directed towards anyone specific.

I think we need to find a middle ground between all this so at least the mods will try and listen. We could vote, i like that idea, give that right to all the members who dedicated their time to this community. If we have to compromise, we could vote, and then the admins could look over the winning candidates and see if the voting is on popularity or for the sake of cB. If the admins really don't want certain members there to become a mod, then they could take them out and kindly give the community an explanation. So the community will vote, the mods will look over the winning candidates, then they will decide yes or no. This gives power to the both sides... right?

justin, you know i don't hate you. it's just - the mods are the leaders of this community, just like in any community there's leaders. there's a school board and administration at your school, and as a student, do you get much say in what goes on? no, that's why you're not a leader. the leaders of THIS community have already not agreed with your idea multiple times. it's time to come up with a compromise or just quit that idea and try bringing it up later. we understand you wanna stand up for what you think, but you have; now is the time to stop. you gave your say already and we took it into consideration and discussed it and we don't think it's the best idea right now. you have to deal with that.

you know, we have a suggestions thread and a complaints thread. if we don't agree with one of the suggestions, that's too bad. we were open to the suggestion and discussed it, and decided against it. oh well.

justin, don't quit, i love you, just not your idea.

im sorry, but as far as i can see, the mods have listed reasons why we should have our ideas rejected, and we are responding to them.

the discussion isnt over, sammi. thats what happens when people stop talking, not in the middle of the issue

However, wouldn't it still be better than now? Now its a popularity contest between only a couple of people. If we voted, it would be between all of CB. Now, if someone is popular with all of CB, they should definitely be a mod. Obviously, they're doing something right. Its more foundational to be popular with thousands of people than with only a couple.

i not going to quit. at least, not outright... i'd still drop in and check out the interests forum every now and then...

I'm not for voting for mods. that's not effective. I am for members having a way to expess, through a poll or otherwise, who they thing should be mod, and this member imput should factor somewhat inot the decision for mods.

i know the whole each forum having a mod thing wasn't well recieved by mods. but we have yet to see if it's well recieved by the members. Sure, it affects mods, but shouldn't mods serve CB and members?


CB is run quite like a school system now. Students usually hate school boards and thier decisions. but members are not, like students, required to come to CB. they can quit anytime they like.


a suggestions thread is not enough. you cannot reply to a particular reply in a thread. there can only be one, or two , topics of discussion at a time in one thread. that's why i say a dedicated forum for suggestions.

for example; right now, the federal government can shut down CB. why? it allows children under the age of 13 to provide information. how can CB avoid this? by adding a checkbox that says 'i am over 13'. that every member 'tells' CB that they're over 13 and the law doesn't apply to them. this was brought up by a user, but then lost. still, in the CB registration form there isn't such a box.

and, regarding the change, then change back: that was rather ineffective. to change CB only to have to change it back? if i were in charge of CB, i wouldn't want to do that.


and remember, all these goals are independent

one does not necesitate the others.

well, the discussion between the people who make the decisions is over. but you wouldn't know that, considering you can't see our discussion. can you?

justin..even if the members agree...your idea is affects US. the members don't have to moderate. if we like the way we're moderating now better than your idea, why can't you drop it?

no sammi, of course i cant

i believe and trust implicitly everything which comes from the mouths of the mods.

no, we can't. it's not our fault we can't see backstage.

read my edit.

^

*in resposne to edit*

well because we disagree, and think you're wrong

it would competely defy the purpose of having a backstage if you could see it

exactly.

what is the purpose of a backstage?


to discuss things that will affect the members without member interferance.

congress's deliberations are public.

why can't moderators? let the members see the ideas and arguments, even if we can't post there.

and sammi, why don't i drop it? the same reason i debate. I'm trying to convince people here, not merely suggest something. Sure, i'll drop it. but not now- not yet.

QUOTE

it would competely defy the purpose of having a backstage if you could see it

And it has already been defied by having members log onto moderator accounts and for moderators bluntly explaining what Backstage is, even though you're prohibited from doing so. Nothing matters anymore apparently.

Which change are you talking about?

but were not supporting these explanations or clandestine log ins

well in this case, james, the suggestion doesn't even affect you. at all. it affects us and how we do our jobs. you're not our boss, jusun is. this IS a job. and if you think you can tell us how to do our jobs, you're surely mistaken.

i'm sorry for being harsh to you guys cause you know you're my friends, but i'm really fed up right now with the way things are going. this isn't how it's supposed to be..

how does the appointment of mods not effect me, a member of the community where these mods make the decisions? that makes no sense

well, if the way the mods are choosing to run the site is promoting this discontent, then clearly something is wrong. and clearly you need some instruction in how to do your job. because you're RIGHT. this ISNt how its supposed to be. and since sole responsibility for decisions which affect the site lie with the mods, as you say, then it follows logically that they are responsible

[quote]but were not supporting these explanations or clandestine log ins[/quote]
Oh really?
[quote]

Group: Official Member
Posts: 3,779
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I think there shd be a "staff room" where ONLY moderators can see and posts...they can talk about any thing they want, about things they don't want members to know about.


--------------------
I wanna stand with u on the mountain
i wanna bathe with u in the sea
i wanna lay like this forever
until the sky falls down on me


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THANKS TO JAMES, I HAVE TO KISS MY SISTER'S BUTT

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gotnoheart Female
Posted: Apr 24 2005, 11:37 AM
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i ♥ you
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^It's called Backstage.


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Anyone want a GMail invite? PM me with your e-mail. =]
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tweeak Female
Posted: Apr 24 2005, 11:37 AM
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the discretely redundant member of the fab five
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^there IS one

or maybe we shouuld give an actual warning the first time, but not do anything like monitoring posts, or suspending
[/quote]
This is in Moderator Performance.

when CB was given a new 'skin', namely the boxy icons to the left of every thread were 3-d, as well as some forum elements...

am i even talking about the appointment of mods?
umno.
i'm talking about justin's idea to make each mod assigned to one forum.

we don't have a say in the appointment of mods either. OHHHH FRIGGINNNN WELLLL.

well then why did you address your reply to me, when i havent mentioned that aspect of the idea, as opposed to justin?

as for the rest of my post. well, still stands

PM a friggin admin if you have a problem with how mods are chosen. have any of you even DONE that yet, besides just complaining to us mods who have no control over it about it?

Ok, the only reason why it was taken off is because the majority of the members were lashing out on Jusun because they can't friggin accept change! They didn't like it because they didn't know what everything stood for, but didn't want to wait and try to learn and get used to them. Life is about changes. If you don't adapt to them, then well.....you know what kind of life you'll live.

I was honestly waiting for a mod to say that Sammi. =D. Now that it has been said, I would like to point out that it was mentioned as boss, and not leader/overfounder. Boss.... strong word, often leads to thinking of overpowerment, no? Is it not true then, that most of the mods are fearful of Jusun because he does have this "boss" figure?

Boss does not necessarily have to mean someone who is harsh/mean/overpowering. No one should fear Jusun because he is so damn kind.

has it not occurred to you that people HAVE pmed the admins, sammi, ad that we're talking here to see how other people feel?



clearly, not if you are a mod

if you're talking about being fearful of losing your job, uh duh. i think anyone in any job situation is fearful of making the wrong impression on their boss. o_O

but trust me, we'll stand up to jusun if we strongly diagree with some of his decisions, since we're around here more than he is and if we've seen examples we can use to prove why it's a bad decision, then we'll use them. at least, i will - i talk to him on AIM whenever he's on about stuff like this. although, he hasn't been on in a while..

Mona, you contradicted your beliefs. Look at what you wrote, people can't friggen accept change. That applies to YOU with this condition as well dear.

in that respect, micron is more like lenin. not that jusun is like lenin in his ideology, but in the respect that he holds all the power yet prefers to work quietly behind the scenes

1) talk in the chatroom. the new mods must feel like crap since people are protesting their appointment so much. don't ask us what the reasons were. don't debate their appointment here. that's something to be discussed off the forums or in private with an admin. if you've PMed them, great, wait for your response. we're sick of being bothered about reasons they were appointed when we too don't have a say in it.

2) what, so any change YOU agree with is good, and any one you don't is bad? you keep saying all these changes would benefit cb, but i don't think you know how hard it is to run a forum or even be a mod on one. there's 30,000 members we have to consider. not just a couple who agree with the idea. sure we may not agree with the mods that were chosen, but sometimes you just have to suck it up. make your own forum if you really don't like how cb is being run. or you can take it up with jusun.

we're just doing our jobs.

What change? I am not contradicting myself. If you mean about voting, I stated my reasons (which was not because I can't accept change). And which change are you talking about that I can't bare to accept now?

Comparisons between foreign leaders and the "boss" of cB doesn't.... help much.

He holds all the power yet? It is entertaining to see that people are admitting this.

yes, not many people liked it. and it was changed back. ( which is good). but if you were Jusun. would you like to roll out a change and have it be badly recieved?

sure, don't include that. it's just seems like a more efficient way to bring about change. by introducing members to it before changing them over.

He doesn't exactly hold all the power. And I never compared him to a foreign leader, if that was towards me. He holds power because he CREATED all of this. He has the highest control and status because of that. But of course, the supermods and admins also have a lot of power.

And yet why does anyone have to "take it up with Jusun"?

It is a community to dispute and find a common grounds between eachother. Why the hell does it have to be one person's choice whether to abolish it or not?

in the process



im not protesting their appointment. im protesting for a greater say in general, and also, i think you'll find that at least one of th enew mods strongly supports what's being said here.



so shut up and let it lie. it takes two to keep a conversation going.



im sorry. at what point did 29,998 members say that this was a bad idea? i must have missed that.

and if its so horribly difficult, why not allow some sort of subsidiarity. that would surely make your lives easier

Come on, they were just a few symbols and buttons that even little kids can understand. He probably changed it back because he wanted everyone to be happy and comfortable. What other way could it have been introduced if it didn't actually replace the other buttons? How could people have known whether they like one over the other if they didn't see it first?

they have to take it up with jusun because frankly, it is his forum. you(generic) can deny it and insist its public all you like, but the fact is, he owns it, and hes the power to take it away.

Oh, and for Jusun being a "boss".

Hm, well he would be here to hear about the debate going on, and to debate himself.

This is putrid how we should just go to him for an "answer".

This is god figurely. Horrid.

You know what's funny? The funny thing is that this entire thing could be so much simpler if Jusun just says something already. We're arguing about mods? Why can't the head of this entire thing just clear it up already?

Face it people. CB is falling. I'd hate to be the doomsdayer of this entire thing, but it's falling. It's falling fast.

If the Mods are working for Junsun then shouldn't they have an answer?

Because he has a life. And is very busy with college.

Oh and if you are truly mods, then you would be mods for the community, not mods for Jusun just to impress him. Just wanted to say that.

And I must agree with Ariel on the last part. Period