i watched it for extra credit, it was pretty good, bush looked really annoyed w/ his facial expressions when kerry was bashing him haha i thought it was funny

i think kerry pretty much won the thing

layloo: I have a friend that looks just like you!! her name is melissa!

anyway, bush sucks. there we go. *sigh*

kryogenix! it's been so long! how have you been, my war-mongering opponent?

Neither Kerry nor Bush won the debate. Lehrer won.

i'm fine, and you, my bleeding-heat adversary?

ROUND TWO begins today.

I know I can't wait!

Round 2 just ended. I think Kerry did an excellent job compared to Bush. Bush seemed to dogde some questions. So what did the rest of y'all think?

actually, bush answered more questions than kerry.
Kerry just kept talking about his "plan" and attacking bush every chance he could get, and when he did try to answer a question on the abortion issue he didn't do well at all.
Kerry also lied, particularily on a quote, the dude came on right after the debate and claimed that he didn't say that.
Bush provided the facts, and i think he proved kerry would indeed raise taxes if he were elected president

^^ I don't see how you can say that. Bush kept jumping in, attacking Kerry, and breaking the rules. The moderator was trying to get him to stop but what did our Presiden do? Proceeded on breaking the rules. Sure he was talking, but was he really answering the questions? No, he wasn't.
Kerry by far did a better job on answering the questions and talking about his plan for America. Which in fact is an excellent thing because many of you complained that he never really told us what his plan was.
And no the facts are that Kerry will not raise the taxes for us if elected. It was stated in the debate and after the debate.

I posted this awesome site in the lounge it's a little blog of the events (go to CNN.com to find it) its so hilarious at one point the guy states, "I have two words for you George Bush: Anger Management." So true. Bush cannot control himself, I will say this time and time again he is like a little daddy's boy throwing a fit trying to get his way. go to CNN.com they have some really good stuff over there tonight.

kery hasnt told us his plan yet, all that we know is that "he has a plan" that's supposedly is going to make every thing better. Tell me what he said about his plane in the debate? And tell me how bush didn't answer the questions, of course he talked, but he was actually talking about some thing to those who were listening toexactly what he was talking about. And he explained in full how one of kerry's little plans to not make taxes higher would not work. kerry mentioned bush wasnt living in reality, when he is the one who needs the reality check
I don't really care that the president interrupted, but that is just me
and whenever kerry "answered" a question he would quickly start talking about how bad a job the president is doing and saying "i will do the opposite". all im hearing from him is "im going to do and vote for whatever is most popular at the time"

CNN.com is just a bush bashing site you should listen to what shawn hannity has to say on live radio---> http://www.shoutcast.com/directory/?s=sean...ty&numresult=25 i listened for a bit today, and the really talk about what matters, and dont just bash

haha I know, CNN and all the other news' are very liberal. But when I don't want to be intelligent, but want a good laugh I read the stuff. They give a very black and white look at things in my opinion. That's why I rely on www.democracyNOW.org

Actually, in my opinion CNN and company are quite objective in their reporting.

EDIT::

They do point out idiocy in candidates, but they do it for both.

Kerry told us about his plan for medicare, and how he was going to do that. He told us about how he would handle the war in Iraq differently and gave us his plan. And you imply that I wasn't listening. Come on. Trust me if our President made a good statement I would point it out. I would not try to hide it because I am not the kind of person you might think I am.

Bush was asked a question by a women in the audience that went something like, "Mr. President, name three mistakes you made while you have been President." What did he answer? Nothing relevant to her question. He was also asked how we could bring allies closer to us or make other countries like us again. What did he answer? Once again something that wasn't relevant to the question. Kerry addressed more questions than our President.

"The measure of a strong economy is a growing middle-class where every American has a chance to work and an opportunity to succeed." Now I don't know about you, but I am in the middle-class; and the idea of giving the middle class a tax break is great. How will he do this? He will :
Create Good-Paying Jobs
Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
Make Washington Live Within A Budget
Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow
Need more info.? Go here.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a "Bush Basher". I am not a narrow minded person as you might assume. I respect our President, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with him. Kerry by far in my opinion would be the better choice.

hahahhahahah, yeah, let me rephrase that question
What is his plan besides giving more power to the government

Bush may not have answered that, but kerry didn't answer any of the questions, and he lied. I don't know about you but that's not okay in my book ;)

on kerry's tax cut....
you are in for a very rude awakening, if kerry is made president
Because he is living in a dreamworld if he thinks he can cut the taxes for people making under 100 grand
How is he going to pay for all of these little plans he has?
The only way is going to be to raise taxes
His plans are way too out there
get ready for communism

I don't think you are narrow minded, sorry for the snide comments i made i do that some times

He's not going to give more power to the government. You will be able to choose your own doctors and health-plan. You were talking about medicare right?

Where did he lie and how?

Raise taxes on the rich.

Thank you.

in other parts of this section i've said how kerry lied...but i'll say it again
he lied about one of the general he quoted when discussing a major issue in the war, making his statement false that they think the troops aren't trained well enough. This is true, because he came on immediately after the debate and stated that he did not say that. I didn't catch his name, i wish i had but i missed it!
imo hes lying about the taxes, every thing he says and every thing he votes for points to can alone tell you that he wants to raise them
he lied about bush being the only president to lose jobs
and also, when he says hes gong to raise the rich's taxes, hes taxing the very people that keep jobs accessible to middle class people, how is that going to help this problem? which leads me to say again that kerry isn't very realistic
//edit: plus, kerry has lied about things before, i have no trust him at all

Like the president said, kerry requested 2.2 trillion in new spending money, what makes you think that by just taxing the rich more he is going to make up for that...? i really just dont see it, which is why i don't think kerry is being realistic

I heard that too after the debate, but the guy said that Kerry phrased it incorrectly.

In the end it just depends on who we choose to believe. You choose our current President, I choose Senator Kerry.

I agree inlonelinessidie, I mean Kerry might lie I don't know. I'm sure everyone agrees that the government lies. But I don't want it to lie. Bush is lieing to the public also.

But there's a huge difference.

I know plenty of people, I'm assuming like yourself, who pass off Kerry's lies as a "change of heart", but slap the Satan sticker on G.W. Bush if he slips up once.

I agree that both are lying jerk-offs, but Bush seems to stick truer to his ideals than Kerry.

Hahahaha that's a good one.

You might be able to choose your own health plan, but you sure as hell aren't going to be allowed to choose how much you pay.

That's like requiring everyone to pay $50 for a pen, giving them a choice between one thjat is worth $5 and one that is worth $15, and calling them "free".

If Kerry was really interested in medical choice and not giving more power to the government, he would get rid of medicare altogether -- that way you would be allowed to choose EXACTLY what plan you want and HOW MUCH you want to pay.



And if they leave?

10% of Americans pay almost 85% of the taxes. That's just not fair. It's their money -- why shouldn't they be allowed to keep it?

And many people in that top 10% are hardworking upper middle class people who are probably not much different from people you know. Do you know how much taxable income you have to make to be in the top 10%? About $80,000.

I was doing college financial aid stuff -- my family pays 30% of its income in JUST income taxes -- not to mention property taxes, sales taxes, etc. According to the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, the typical American pays 47% of his/her income just to support the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

The Cato Institute estimates that, when you include state and local taxes, the amount is anywhere between 55% and 65%.

In other words, the average American works three days out of the week to support Halliburton, drug addicts, welfare bums, corrupt bureaucrats, even more corrupt politicians, girls who didn't think before having sex, etc. and only TWO days to support himself and his family.

And we wonder why so many Americans are in debt and have financial problems? And we wonder why family values are degrading? It has nothing to do with abortion or gay rights or anything like that -- most ordinary Americans can't afford to have family values any more because of people like Hillary Clinton.

And the situation isn't getting any better -- as there become fewer workers and an older population, the definition of "the rich" will continually be revised downwards -- until the average American making $40,000 a year is subjected to two-thirds taxation to support an increasing number of people who've decided that working just isn't worth it any more. After all, welfare PAYS. We've spent over $8 TRILLION on welfare since Lyndon B Johnson's great society. If you divide that by the number of people who have gotten chronic welfare aid, that means that we pay the average person on welfare $50,000 A YEAR. So why work for $40,000, pay $25,000 of it in taxes, when you can just get $50,000 from doing nothing?

In 1773 the British levied a SIXPENCE tax on tea (that is an 6% tax). Historians estimate that, in 1775, the average American paid less than TWO PERCENT of his income in taxes to King and Parliament. And what did we do? We overthrew them.

Today, the average American pays FIFTY percent -- that is, twenty-five times more than in 1775 -- of his income in taxes to President and Congress. And what do we do? Form special interest groups and try to steal as much money from everyone else as we can before this government goes down in flames.

heck. they both said the same crap over and over throughout all the friggen debates. kerry scofts to much, bush drinks to much water, and that dude that asks all the questons is just stupid.

::jerry::

yes but i didnt want to my teacher made me im not into politics

ComradeRed- What are your sources?


Final round. Round 3 begins today.

I believe I pointed them out... Cato Institute, House of Respresentatives, etc. My statistics on welfare spending are all from teh Cato Institute. Everything else is quoted in the argument.

^^ Alright.

haha i hope some thing good and juicy happens this round, but most likely not

Debate just ended. Overall I think both did well. Bush seemed to step it up a bit this time, and Kerry still stayed strong. This debate had humour in it, especially when both candidates were asked about their "strong women", which was great. So what did the rest of y'all think?

I think it was a tie, however Bush gains because this stops the momentum that Kerry gained through the first debate. Also, Kerry made a mistake mentioning Dick Cheney's daughter.

Against the rules?

That's still a jackass thing to do.

Why? Cheney loves his daughter and is not ashamed of her. There is nothing wrong with her being a lesbian, big deal. Cheney's daughter is very open about her sexuality, so no it was not a "jackass thing to do," at all.

First Debate: Clear Kerry win
Second Debate: Draw
Third Debate: Very, VERY narrow Kerry win (Bush was winning up until the last 20 minutes when he got killed).

I disagree.

I think the record is 1-1-1.

1st: Kerry
2nd: Bush
3rd: Draw

The Kerry camp is trying to call Cheney a flip flop through something he can't control. That's pretty rude and insensitive to me.

Gallup polls show that Kerry clearly won the first one. For the second one, 43% think Kerry won and 41% think Bush won ... which is within the Margin of Error (meaning it's a tie). The third one hasn't come out yet, but it will in a day or two.

EDIT: Gallup's poll shows that 52% of Americans think Kerry won, comapred to 39% for Bush.

Kerry won the third debate.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=13642

Among Republicans, 73% think Bush won compared ot 17% for Kerry
Among Independents, 54% think Kerry won and 34% say Bush
Among Democrats, 86% think Kerry won versus 7% for Bush

Among all Americans, 42% now have a more favorable impression of Kerry and 15% have a less favorable impression of Kerry. 27% have a more favorable impression of Bush and 17% now have a less favorable impression.

In terms of specific debate rankings,
Expressed himself more clearly: 61% Kerry, 29% Bush (K +32)
Showed he cares about people like you: 53% Kerry, 41% Bush (K +12)
Has a good understanding of the issues: 49% Kerry, 37% Bush (K +12)
Agreed with you on issues you care about: 53% Kerry, 46% Bush (K +7)
Showed he shares your values: 50% Kerry, 46% Bush (K +4)
Was more believable: 48% Kerry, 45% Bush (K +3)
Was more liekable: Bush 48%, Kerry 43% (B +5)

The margin of error is 4% with 95% Confidence, so basically Bush tied on sharing values and believability, won on likeability, but lost on the other 4 issues.

it's hard to complain about kerry being "rude" when you consider the smear tactics the bush campaign has been employing.

for example?

Kerry's campaign is almost entirely a smear campaign, repeatedly saying Busg failed miserably, Iraq is a disaster, Bush was AWOL, blah blah.

The only Kerry smear against Bush was accusing him of being AWOL.

Attacking Bush's policies in Iraq is not smearing. Likewise, it would be smearing for Bush to attack Kerry's Vietnam Service ... but it would not be smearing for him to attack kerry's senate voting record.

You also have to remember that Bush is sitting in the defendant's chair ... He has to answer for his actions, like all presidents running for reelection, not kerry.

Bush has called Kerry's campaign heroic. It's the swift boat veterans for truth that are smearing him. And Bush isn't connected to them.

Looks like a lot of Kerry Fans!! Well i have watched the debates, and I must say Kerry squished Bush! But remember, it's easy to critize someone on all things they have done wrong, and it'es easy to say "i will do this and this and this," let's just hope that actually does happen if he's in office. As for who i would vote for well i really don't want to see another 4 years of Bush