paperplane vs dosomethin888
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Full Version: Should America Lower the Drinking Age?
mipadi vs illmortal
paperplane vs dosomethin888
SHIET ezz greeaat..
paperplane vs dosomethin888
SHIET ezz greeaat..
QUOTE(paperplane @ Mar 22 2009, 02:07 PM) 
What I consume myself is absolutely a personal freedom. As a legal adult, it should be my choice whether I drink. Does that mean I think I have the right to hurt other people in effect? Absolutely not. But that is why we have a justice system to prevent and punish people who act irresponsibly. Once again, kindly do not tell me that I live in a bubble until you actually go out and try living yourself. It's funny that you keep making this bubble comment, when really you're endorsing the government putting us in bubbles past the point where it is their duty to protect us as minors (18). I don't think your perception of bars is very accurate. Have you ever been near a college town? Most bars aren't going to be full of skeezy men. It's really not that difficult for anyone of any age to leave or avoid a place that they feel uncomfortable. I don't know what makes you think that at 21 people are suddenly going to be infinitely wiser about drinking than they would be at a slightly younger age. I do not know a single person who refrained from drinking until they were actually legal, so chances are 21 year olds know how to handle their booze primarily from their underage experiences.
You cannot say that the government needs to protect 18-21 year old adults, but that they don't need to protect citizens from living in poverty. It's inconsistent. And yeah, no shit I live here. Meaning that these are the useless restrictions that actually effect me, so of course I'm going to want things changed to make the most sense.
People do not magically become mature and responsible at 21. If that were the case, and people were really still too useless to make decisions for themselves at 18, then one would cease to be a minor at 21, rather than 18.
Ok, story time. At my school we had a group called Watch Dawgs that would give people free, nonjudgmental rides home Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights to prevent people from drinking and driving. It's a great program, but they're not operating this semester because, long story short, the university won't give them a space on campus to store their equipment. Why won't the school help such a great organization whose aim is to keep people safe? Because they refuse to take a stance against underage drinking, as that would be judgmental. I applaud the group for maintaining their principles, but the larger issue at hand is that this show how the university is more interested in looking good than actually protecting its students from harm. Saying "oh you're underage you can't drink" is about a million times less helpful than saying "you may or may not have been drinking legally, but we want to get you home safely regardless." Current alcohol laws are preventing the 18-20 year olds who, let's face it, do drink from being taught how to do so responsibly.
You cannot say that the government needs to protect 18-21 year old adults, but that they don't need to protect citizens from living in poverty. It's inconsistent. And yeah, no shit I live here. Meaning that these are the useless restrictions that actually effect me, so of course I'm going to want things changed to make the most sense.
People do not magically become mature and responsible at 21. If that were the case, and people were really still too useless to make decisions for themselves at 18, then one would cease to be a minor at 21, rather than 18.
Ok, story time. At my school we had a group called Watch Dawgs that would give people free, nonjudgmental rides home Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights to prevent people from drinking and driving. It's a great program, but they're not operating this semester because, long story short, the university won't give them a space on campus to store their equipment. Why won't the school help such a great organization whose aim is to keep people safe? Because they refuse to take a stance against underage drinking, as that would be judgmental. I applaud the group for maintaining their principles, but the larger issue at hand is that this show how the university is more interested in looking good than actually protecting its students from harm. Saying "oh you're underage you can't drink" is about a million times less helpful than saying "you may or may not have been drinking legally, but we want to get you home safely regardless." Current alcohol laws are preventing the 18-20 year olds who, let's face it, do drink from being taught how to do so responsibly.
Okay, maturity usually comes with age and people soon realize that stupidity is a choice. But not with all people... some people never learn. I do think that a person who is raised in a stable family until they are 18 years old is more likely to make the right choices because they have had guidance. So, with some people maturity comes at different ages depending on what you have gone through personally. But, I still think that maturity doesnt come before more-or-less 18 with most people.
But, there are more cons than pros to changing the legal age. More teenagers being able to drink at bars and restaurants increases the amount of DWIs, crashes, disturbances.. Especially since young people are more rambunsious than older people (I swear I sound like an 80 year old but its true.) There will have to be more regulation on the streets when our policeman have more important things to be doing than babysitting drunk people. It increases the chances of innocent people being killed in DWI related crashes.
But I think those Watch Dawgs groups are good to have because people are going to drink and people above the age of 21 could benefit from those groups too.
QUOTE(BOSS @ Mar 19 2009, 02:45 AM)
lol bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit
brain is completely mature at 21? my ass, explain DUIs by 40 year olds.
have you ever been to a frat party?
brain is completely mature at 21? my ass, explain DUIs by 40 year olds.
have you ever been to a frat party?
Honey i was just about to say that.
Especially the 40 year olds who got like 5 DUI's and counting.
QUOTE(dosomethin888 @ Mar 22 2009, 05:11 PM)
Okay, maturity usually comes with age and people soon realize that stupidity is a choice. But not with all people... some people never learn. I do think that a person who is raised in a stable family until they are 18 years old is more likely to make the right choices because they have had guidance. So, with some people maturity comes at different ages depending on what you have gone through personally. But, I still think that maturity doesnt come before more-or-less 18 with most people.
But, there are more cons than pros to changing the legal age. More teenagers being able to drink at bars and restaurants increases the amount of DWIs, crashes, disturbances.. Especially since young people are more rambunsious than older people (I swear I sound like an 80 year old but its true.) There will have to be more regulation on the streets when our policeman have more important things to be doing than babysitting drunk people. It increases the chances of innocent people being killed in DWI related crashes.
But I think those Watch Dawgs groups are good to have because people are going to drink and people above the age of 21 could benefit from those groups too.
But, there are more cons than pros to changing the legal age. More teenagers being able to drink at bars and restaurants increases the amount of DWIs, crashes, disturbances.. Especially since young people are more rambunsious than older people (I swear I sound like an 80 year old but its true.) There will have to be more regulation on the streets when our policeman have more important things to be doing than babysitting drunk people. It increases the chances of innocent people being killed in DWI related crashes.
But I think those Watch Dawgs groups are good to have because people are going to drink and people above the age of 21 could benefit from those groups too.
Alright...there's really nothing in that first paragraph I can particularly disagree with, but what's your point?
"Rambunsious"? I would much rather have more cops devoting their efforts to patrolling the roads than arresting people for being underage, or arresting bar employees for not properly IDing. Anyway, it's as much a matter of principle than anything else. The drinking age should at the very lease be left up to the states to be decided. I mean, technically it is, but they can't actually lower it from 21 without losing highway funding, and no state is going to do that. It's not the federal government's place to be mandating that regulation. That's what really needs to be changed, more than anything.
LOL, no shit. That's my point. Now no one is able to benefit from their services.
QUOTE(Tomates @ Mar 22 2009, 12:51 AM)
If the drinking age were to be lowered, i think they should lower it to 19.
Yeah a lot of countries and places are 18 but to me it would be kinda weird if i saw a bunch of 18 year olds in my school come to school either drunk or hung over. I'm not saying that would exactly happen but it could and it could happen more often.
Yeah a lot of countries and places are 18 but to me it would be kinda weird if i saw a bunch of 18 year olds in my school come to school either drunk or hung over. I'm not saying that would exactly happen but it could and it could happen more often.
How's that different from the way it already is...
QUOTE(shanaynay @ Mar 22 2009, 08:06 PM)
How's that different from the way it already is...
Hm, well if the drinking age were lowered to 18 then the ones who normally don't illegally drink would.
^But that doesn't mean it will be legal for them to be publicly intoxicated. So, they would be charged if they were to come to school drunk.
QUOTE(paperplane @ Mar 22 2009, 03:55 PM)
Alright...there's really nothing in that first paragraph I can particularly disagree with, but what's your point?
"Rambunsious"? I would much rather have more cops devoting their efforts to patrolling the roads than arresting people for being underage, or arresting bar employees for not properly IDing. Anyway, it's as much a matter of principle than anything else. The drinking age should at the very lease be left up to the states to be decided. I mean, technically it is, but they can't actually lower it from 21 without losing highway funding, and no state is going to do that. It's not the federal government's place to be mandating that regulation. That's what really needs to be changed, more than anything.
LOL, no shit. That's my point. Now no one is able to benefit from their services.
"Rambunsious"? I would much rather have more cops devoting their efforts to patrolling the roads than arresting people for being underage, or arresting bar employees for not properly IDing. Anyway, it's as much a matter of principle than anything else. The drinking age should at the very lease be left up to the states to be decided. I mean, technically it is, but they can't actually lower it from 21 without losing highway funding, and no state is going to do that. It's not the federal government's place to be mandating that regulation. That's what really needs to be changed, more than anything.
LOL, no shit. That's my point. Now no one is able to benefit from their services.
I know I spelt rambunsicous (whatever) wrong. Didnt feel like looking up the spelling.
I didnt mean that cops need to be spending their tims arresting underage drinkers.. they have other responsibilities.. besides the drinking thing. So, if we were to lower the drinking age, we should have a certain number of watch dog groups formed before we lower it. If we are having it regulated by them, the cops have plenty of other things to concentrate on.
I think we've found a medium. Nice debating ... until next time Paperplane.
^x2 I briefly mentioned something about that earlier. Personally, I don't think the correct punishment for going to school drunk would be expulsion. I think a fine would be more fitting. Part of the reason why my state bumped up the drinking age is because of the problems it had with kids coming to school intoxicated (and the highway funding, like every other state.)
In Germany, the age to drink beer and wine is 16, but the age to drink liquor is 18. The cost of a beer there (and the tax of one) is much less than here. If the drinking age is lowered here, the government may raise the tax and then consumption won't be as high as European countries. (There are studies of countries such as Germany that show when the alcohol tax increases consumption decreases.)
Our blood alcohol is set at .08, but in Germany:
QUOTE(illmortal @ Mar 22 2009, 02:54 PM)
Hell, I'll be happy with that.
Then you go to mention laws... how funny. Do you honestly think that while you're impaired that you're gonna give two shits about the law? If that was the case, there wouldn't be DUIs or domestic violence, or even violence in general while under the influence.
I've always said that America needs to be tougher on people who drive drunk. Also, as I mentioned earlier other laws would have to change if the drinking age is lowered. In many European countries if someone is caught driving drunk the person loses the right to drive for a year and then must re-take the driving test (in Germany, it's 4 years). It's much more difficult to get the driving privilege back in other countries than it is here. There is NO reason why a person should get an eighth DUI.Then you go to mention laws... how funny. Do you honestly think that while you're impaired that you're gonna give two shits about the law? If that was the case, there wouldn't be DUIs or domestic violence, or even violence in general while under the influence.
In Germany, the age to drink beer and wine is 16, but the age to drink liquor is 18. The cost of a beer there (and the tax of one) is much less than here. If the drinking age is lowered here, the government may raise the tax and then consumption won't be as high as European countries. (There are studies of countries such as Germany that show when the alcohol tax increases consumption decreases.)
Our blood alcohol is set at .08, but in Germany:
QUOTE
For drivers who've had their licenses for longer than two years, a blood alcohol limit of 0.5 milligrams per milliliter of blood will apply. That is about 2 small beers or a shot of hard liquor.
QUOTE(IWontRapeYou @ Mar 22 2009, 08:53 PM)
^But that doesn't mean it will be legal for them to be publicly intoxicated. So, they would be charged if they were to come to school drunk.
hmm. I didn't think of that. Still i think of my school and how dense the staff can be when it comes to noticing stuff like that.
that girl looks good
I just love how so many users in this topic would punish individuals who can control themselves by raising the age or even banning drinking altogether simply because Joe-fucking-idiot had too many drinks and did something stupid. It aggravates me. The future of America is in the hands of these liberal morons.
This just in, people can think for themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.
I still stick by my original post:
This just in, people can think for themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.
I still stick by my original post:
QUOTE
I don't believe that minors should drink, however at the age of 18 you're allowed to do just everything aside from drink. I don't see anything wrong with someone under the age of 21 having a drink. As long as, and this goes for everyone, they drink responsibly.
If your treated like a child then it stands to reason you'll act accordingly, and statistics support this. About 90% of the alcohol consumed by youth under the age of 21 years in the United States is in the form of binge drinks (http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/quickstats/binge_drinking.htm).
I believe the drinking age should definitely be lowered.
* No drinks under 16 :(
* Drink with consent of a legal guardian if under 18
* Drink with out parental consent after 18
* License purchase alcohol after 21
If your treated like a child then it stands to reason you'll act accordingly, and statistics support this. About 90% of the alcohol consumed by youth under the age of 21 years in the United States is in the form of binge drinks (http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/quickstats/binge_drinking.htm).
I believe the drinking age should definitely be lowered.
* No drinks under 16 :(
* Drink with consent of a legal guardian if under 18
* Drink with out parental consent after 18
* License purchase alcohol after 21
QUOTE(Uronacid @ Mar 23 2009, 06:51 PM)
I just love how so many users in this topic would punish individuals who can control themselves by raising the age or even banning drinking altogether simply because Joe-fucking-idiot had too many drinks and did something stupid. It aggravates me. The future of America is in the hands of these liberal morons.
This just in, people can think for themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.
I still stick by my original post:
This just in, people can think for themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.
I still stick by my original post:
So then you have to agree that if they kill someone in a DUI accident that they should be punished by death as soon as the jury claims guilty.
QUOTE(Uronacid @ Mar 23 2009, 05:51 PM)
I just love how so many users in this topic would punish individuals who can control themselves by raising the age or even banning drinking altogether simply because Joe-fucking-idiot had too many drinks and did something stupid. It aggravates me. The future of America is in the hands of these liberal morons.
the people i know who are against the drinking age being lowered are far from liberal. most i know are conservative republicans, or at least conservative. (most against it in this topic too i think)
QUOTE(illmortal @ Mar 23 2009, 06:50 PM)
So then you have to agree that if they kill someone in a DUI accident that they should be punished by death as soon as the jury claims guilty.
eh...
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Mar 23 2009, 08:12 PM)
the people i know who are against the drinking age being lowered are far from liberal. most i know are conservative republicans, or at least conservative. (most against it in this topic too i think)
I'm surprised that this is true. Most of the conservatives I know are for it. One of the core conservative beliefs can be summed as follows and cannot be said better than Rush Limbaugh:
"We believe that person can be the best he or she wants to be if certain things are just removed from their path like onerous taxes, regulations and too much government."
QUOTE(illmortal @ Mar 23 2009, 07:50 PM)
So then you have to agree that if they kill someone in a DUI accident that they should be punished by death as soon as the jury claims guilty.
I'd say you're putting words in my mouth. In no way is drunk driving premeditated murder. I don't believe that should even be considered until people are getting the death penalty for premeditated murder. At the moment it's few and far between. Even in some of the most twisted murders, the defendant is not given the death penalty.
Real conservatism and Republican conservatism are two entirely different things. One I could get behind, the other I cannot. I don't think it's at all fair or accurate to say that it's liberal who are for more restrictive laws like this.
And drunk driving deaths aren't murder, they're vehicular homicide. It would be completely unreasonable to give the death penalty for that.
And drunk driving deaths aren't murder, they're vehicular homicide. It would be completely unreasonable to give the death penalty for that.
QUOTE(paperplane @ Mar 23 2009, 10:37 PM)
Real conservatism and Republican conservatism are two entirely different things. One I could get behind, the other I cannot. I don't think it's at all fair or accurate to say that it's liberal who are for more restrictive laws like this.
And drunk driving deaths aren't murder, they're vehicular homicide. It would be completely unreasonable to give the death penalty for that.
And drunk driving deaths aren't murder, they're vehicular homicide. It would be completely unreasonable to give the death penalty for that.
I don't believe it's unfair or inaccurate to say that "feel good" propositions such as tossing drinks out of the country all together or raising the drinking age are liberal ideas. Taking away freedom in the name of safety in generally the work of our liberal friends (Republican and Democrat alike).
While, it might sound like a good idea and in theory everyone will be safe from the dangers of alcohol: no-one can ban away every danger that presents itself. It's just not realistic. People need to take responsibility for their actions. Responsibility, it's something becoming more and more absent in America.
lol i'm glad you're editing. i was about to ask if you thought bush was a liberal.
QUOTE(brooklyneast05 @ Mar 23 2009, 10:52 PM)
lol i'm glad you're editing. i was about to ask if you thought bush was a liberal.
Bush was in no way a conservative. You don't have to know much to know that. As paperplane said, and I whole heatedly agree:
QUOTE(paperplane @ Mar 23 2009, 10:37 PM)
Real conservatism and Republican conservatism are two entirely different things.
QUOTE(Uronacid @ Mar 23 2009, 10:11 PM)
Bush was in no way a conservative. You don't have to know much to know that. As paperplane said, and I whole heatedly agree:
You're a bitch Josh. Go f*ck a goat.
Bush was a puppet. Our real last President was JFK. Prove me wrong.
QUOTE(Kontroll @ Apr 1 2009, 03:17 AM)
You're a bitch Josh. Go f*ck a goat.
Bush was a puppet. Our real last President was JFK. Prove me wrong.
Bush was a puppet. Our real last President was JFK. Prove me wrong.
I can't he was assassinated for that very reason.
Lower it..Raise it the people that wanna
drink are going to no matter how old they are
personally i was tired of drinking by the time i was 21
drink are going to no matter how old they are
personally i was tired of drinking by the time i was 21
I honestly think they should leave it as it is. I mean why bother to raise it, under aged people will find someway to access it anyway. Why go through the trouble?
QUOTE(iGio @ Apr 28 2009, 10:44 PM)
I honestly think they should leave it as it is. I mean why bother to raise it, under aged people will find someway to access it anyway. Why go through the trouble?
That is an absolutely terrible way to look at it.
QUOTE(paperplane @ Apr 28 2009, 09:55 PM)
That is an absolutely terrible way to look at it.
Buttttttttttttttttttttttt :((((((((((((((( Looking through the eyes of a government employee, I don't really want to do anything to earn my paycheck, and writing the documentation would take way too much effort k?
QUOTE(paperplane @ Apr 28 2009, 10:55 PM)
That is an absolutely terrible way to look at it.
I was kinda thinking the same thing when I posted that. But it has truth to it. Like I get if you would say something like "so we're supposed to sit back and do nothing".
But what can they really do ?
and do you agree?
QUOTE(kryogenix @ Apr 29 2009, 01:09 AM)
Buttttttttttttttttttttttt :((((((((((((((( Looking through the eyes of a government employee, I don't really want to do anything to earn my paycheck, and writing the documentation would take way too much effort k?
you're right, everyone should take the easy way out of eeeeeeeeeverything. I can't believe they stopped slavery because, like, I bet that was a lot of trouble.QUOTE(iGio @ Apr 29 2009, 01:50 AM)
I was kinda thinking the same thing when I posted that. But it has truth to it. Like I get if you would say something like "so we're supposed to sit back and do nothing".
But what can they really do ? and do you agree?
But what can they really do ?
and do you agree?I don't know what you're saying. Obviously, they could change the laws. Or more specifically, get rid of the idiotic federal mandate for highway funding contingent on drinking age. No, I obviously don't think they should sit back and do nothing?
^Basically what I was saying was why raise it? people are going to do it anyway. I don't believe they should lower it. But what kind of effect would raising the drinking age have when people will do it no matter what?
Why should I have to break the law to do something I should be old enough to do? It's not just about the drinking; not being able to drink until I'm 21 is inconveniencing my life in many ways that I wouldn't have been inconvenienced if the age were 18. I'd list, but it would turn into a rant, and I have too much work to do and it's already 3 am. Particularly as I've posted in this thread before too. Go back and read. But your argument is incredibly flawed.
QUOTE(paperplane @ Mar 23 2009, 10:37 PM)
Real conservatism and Republican conservatism are two entirely different things.
I want you to point out the differences, please.
Is that really necessary?
QUOTE(paperplane @ Apr 29 2009, 01:39 PM)
Is that really necessary?
Perhaps, because he believes that he's superior to women. You not responding will be giving him the impression that he actually is, and that he has one this little debate. Be petty or let it go? Choice is yours.
If Tama doesn't know, then inferiority to Nicki(did I get it right?) is apparent.
Tama, there's a big difference between Republicans and conservatives... Conservatives haven't sold out to the popularity contest. We have well grounded morals that aren't based upon feelings.
QUOTE(WarMachine @ Apr 29 2009, 02:21 PM)
Perhaps, because he believes that he's superior to women. You not responding will be giving him the impression that he actually is, and that he has one this little debate. Be petty or let it go? Choice is yours.
But it's not even relevant to the topic.
QUOTE(kryogenix @ Apr 29 2009, 03:30 PM)
If Tama doesn't know, then inferiority to Nicki(did I get it right?) is apparent.
This.
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