is it fair that non-christians celebrate christmas with presents and christmas trees? i can't stand it when people openly say how they hate religion and christianity, then come christmas time, they brag about their christmas presents. that goes for easter too. people openly reject jesus christ's resurrection but they celebrate easter. and to add insult to injury, they completely change the meaning by having egghunts and bunnies.

-edit- uh yeah. you can't have it both ways! either become a christian and partake in our holidays, or stay an atheist/agnostic and don't celebrate our holidays, and don't change our holidays either!

wow kinda abrupt.... Christmas has become a national holiday because this country was born on Christianity.... which kinda sounds wierd but oh well

wow you are really offended by this sorry you feel that way but yeah i gues i know what your saying





.:tonY:.

My family doesn't celebrate Christmas and we don't get presents, but we do enjoy the days off.

HOWEVER, when it comes for our religious holidays, we have to get "special" days off and it's not counted in our pay. If you work full time you can get "sick days" to celebrate your religious holiday.

You're right, we don't have it both ways. When we want to celebrate our religious/cultural holidays, we can't do it without getting permission (schools and work places).

Good for you! I'm glad you realize that this is unfair. People at school ridicule religion yet they look forward to getting Christmas presents.

That's kind of funny.

But you know what, Christmas is not so attached to a religious holiday as it is attached to a national holiday, something more like a culture. I think those people celebrate it for culture more than anything. But kids will be kids and they'll want presents.

I sang carols and done something things to celebrate it in school before, rarely at home (my Mom fancies herself Catholic, because that was her Mother was, when my Dad's not looking). After all, if I don't get into the spirit of Christmas, I'd be a scrooge. But we don't get a Christmas tree; we don't give each other presents, but we do give presents to others.

I don't celebrate it doesn't meant that I don't have fun with it.

Exactly.. Christmas has been so integrated into our culture, that kids might be teased or ridiculed for not celebrating it.. at the very least they'll feel left out if they dont and their friends do (I'm talking elementary-middle school primarily, by high school/college though, it'll already be stuck in their mindset);

The main problem is that.. too many kids celebrate Christmas without knowing the reason why.. the meaning of Christmas, besides the gifts and the overplayed tv specials and other media influences

so santa claus and the easter bunny have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with jesus? no.

i selebrate the visit from santa, not the birth of christ.

So true. People can be hypocritical.

Didnt Santa supposedly choose 12/25 because of its an important religious holiday? (I saw that on a tv special once ); and well.. too many people onli know/think of santa.. and dont know the religious signifiance (I onli found out recently ..); not sure about Easter though.. dunno much about it.. dont celebrate it at all



Hypocrisy is pretty much a part of human nature..

This is a rather difficult topic..

Christmas has turned so.. so commercialized, that it's not even really that religous anymore.

All anyone cares about anymore are the presents and decorations.
No one really cares about the church aspect of it.
I do, however.

I think that many people celebrate Christmas for the Santa part of it, and not necessarily the Jesus's birth part.

I don't know.
Obviously, you can do whatever you want in your own household.
I'm neutral on this one.
Christmas is quite.. gifty now days.. so, it's not necessarily just for Christians anymore.

Christmas is celebrated by the majority of the country now..
Somehow, I don't think it's right to celebrate Christmas, and not believe in God in some way, shape, or form.
I have nothing against people who do that, however.

If you're a Christian, and you celebrate Christmas.. I think it's necessary to go to church on Christmas Eve, or Christmas. It's just something good to do for your religion.

Yeah. Anyway..

I'm fine with the gift giving, santa claus and tree, but i don't think it's fair to call it Christmas. Where's the Christ in all of that?

Exactly. I hate when people twist holidays and try to make their own ones.

Like where did the easter bunny come into Jesus being crucified and rising from the dead o nthe third day.

People got the whole gift giving thing from when the 3 wisemen brought Jesus gifts after he was born, but now so many people are just concerned with that.

Then on those olidays the church is so filled. I mean i go to First Baptist of Atlanta(dr.charles stanley's church) and it is a big church with a big membership and then on Easter there is barely anyroom to sit down. But the next Sunday it is back to the way it was right before Palm Sunday. I'm just like if you aren't going to celebrate Christ and God throughout the year why do it on one or two days of the year.

Then what do you suppose non-believers do for Christmas?

When I didn't know anything about Christianity (when I was 8 or so), my Mom gave me flowers on "Noel", saying that Santa left it for me.

Oh wow, we twist it to make it our own when we obviously do the Santa thing as well.

You may very well celebrate Christmas religiously, but others choose to celebrate it culturally. There's no twisting it when everyone wants to have fun.

When people of other faiths have their holidays, they have to get PERMISSION to celebrate it. So you guys have it easy, because the whole nation seems to celebrate with you.

As if businesses do not appreciate people spending their money to buy gifts for their loved ones.


What's so hypocritical about it, genius? If you don't understand the difference between cultural integration and religious holidays, then I really have nothing more to say.

Yeah. That's very true.

They should not call it Christmas if they're not Christians..

Pfft, then what do you want us to call it?

Just call it, like, the winter holidays, or something.
Vague, yet you know what they're talking about.

Sure, I'll do that and have the person look at me like I'm a snob. Or a kid will call it that and his friends will make fun of him. Great.

Hell, I'll call it as I want to call it, just as long as it understandable to the next person.

Christmas has a secular side too.

THe way I see it, I'll celebrate whatever holiday I want to.

thatz definatley unfair n ur really upset bout thi huh? sry

What's unfair? That people join a culture only to be pushed away because a few can't seem to share their holidays?

How about this, make every religion's holiday be as grand and spirited like Christmas, then we'll all be happy.

Jeez.

There's no reason for people to think you're a snob. Also, there is certainly no reason to be made fun of if you refer to Christmas as the winter holidays.

You don't have to be so bitchy about it..
I think it's a reasonable name.. The Winter Holidays..
That's not snobbish in the least. It just simply states that you don't want to call it Christmas.

You know what?
I don't care what you call it.
Call it Christmas as much as you effing want to.
Who gives a shit.. I mean, if you're going to be all bitchy about a SUGGESTION on an alternative name for Christmas.

Never mind.
Why do I bother..

Goodness.


Hmm, there's no reason to make fun of it, you're right. But I don't know what side of town you're living in, because try to walk into.. the "funkier" side of town and talk to those people about the "winter holidays". I'll bet you'd give them a good laugh.

If my 10 year old (imagine with me) want to relate Santa to Christmas, I'm not going to stop him/her and say "honey, you're using the wrong terminology, it's Noel, and/or winter holidays, not Christmas. That's being hypocritical and those nice, Christian folks, will think you're a bad boy because of it." Puhleeeze.


And you don't have to be so selfish about it. Ever heard of "getting into the spirit of Christmas?". Where the hell's the spirit when you want the other half of the population to call it another name just because you don't like it to be called that way by other people? You're going to make a word/term into something discriminatory.


Oh, you would definately know when I'm being "bitchy" about something, but this isn't one of my "BF" ("bitch fit"). I'm mostly being sarcastic so you would know the silliness of the whole accusation.

Never mind.
Why do I bother..

That is a stupid reason to be made fun of, considering that many holidays occur around the same time..


Wow, looks like you're letting others get to you a bit as well..

I'm confused.. why are we discussing the name?

it depends... some people belive that santa is anti-christian... my friend used to live in a small town and they refused to give presents because of that reason

But if I called it Christmas, and Christian folks don't like me calling it that way, they're going to mock me for it, like they're doing now. So either way, I'll get criticized for it.

You'd be surprised at the kind of facial reaction you'll get for calling Christmas, "winter holidays", out of the blue. I, myself, would give a " " look.


Basically, some Christians believe that non-believers do not deserve to call Christmas, Christmas. Such a holy term, apparently, shouldn't be uttered by a heathen.



Well, that's a little too extreme, but eh, people and their cultures. Can't blame 'em.

Hmm .. I'm a Christian and I celebrate Christmas .. but I know some people who are BUddhists that celebrate Christmas .. hmm.. now that i think about it, i don't like that

Back in the old days, White folks didn't like eating in the same restaurant with Black folks either.

hmm i guess i understand u, james... heh i dont celebrate christmas eve tho...even tho im Christian... i celebrate Jesus's birthday...hehe... well i say merry christmas and give presents.... but does that mean i celebrate it? x_X?? hehe newais i dont know wat im talking bot...im stupid T_T;; lols ok lets see um... like well... theres no argument for that... sry james, but... i guess it doesnt reallie matter. even tho ppls are non-christians cant celebrate christmas.... they still have lil bit of joyfulness and happiness in their lives that they want to celebrate it. christmas is also for the non-christians... you can have it both ways.

i think basically every celebrates christmas and it started from christianity but it other ways for non-christian it could becuz of the grandma's wanting an excuse to give their grand chbildren money or presents

I guess it's hypocritical, but I mean, what is there that we can do to stop it? We can't control free will.

How is it hypocritical???? Give a logical explaination, please.

EDIT>>> When non-believers celebrate Christmas, they only celebrate the "winter holidays" aspect of it (ex: presents, sharing, parties), they do not celebrate the birth of Christ. How is that hypocritical?

Santa anti-christian? Wow.. never heard that before..

EDIT://

How the heck did I miss a whole page? x.x


I completely agree.. most dont even know about its connection to Christ (I didnt until very recently...)

ahem.. not many ppl know that christmas is actually a christian holiday.. som retard made santa and so its celebrated.. by non-christians..

That "retard" only wanted the rest of the people to have fun, or to make money, you party pooper.

What's wrong with non-Christians celebrating Christmas?

I think it's wrong to insult Christianity and then celebrate its holidays. But, if you're not Christian and okay with Christianity, then why does it matter if you celebrate its holidays?

Like others have said...Christmas has become more a part of a culture than a part of a religion. For example, Christmas in the US is a big thing. Obviously, most of what happens during the Christmas holidays has nothing to do with the religion. But, BECAUSE its a big thing, everyone likes to celebrate it. Are you going to tell some non-Christian kids to take off the Christmas lights because it has nothing to do with the religion, and because they aren't Christians?

I didn't know that few people knew the holiday was a Christian one.

And really...what the heck is wrong with calling it 'Christmas'??
I'm SURE that every Christian out there calls it Christmas and really thinks about it being a Christian holiday.
EVERYONE should be allowed to call it Christmas because that's the word for it; why would non-Christians say something different? Sure, you could say 'winter holidays'. It's not unusual at all. Only, when you say that, it's hard to think whether you're referring to Christmas, or the season, or the winter break (in terms of school), or other holidays that happen around that time. How would people know?? I think it's really stupid that you think non-Christians shouldn't call it the same thing. We call it Christmas because everyone would understand it to mean CHRISTMAS.

i understand what you're saying and partly agree. i'm not christian and don't do the whole xmas celebration things. maybe just exchange gifts with friends and say "merry xmas and happy new year" to some people. i don't think that people who do celebrate xmas have a right to complain. the reason being that even though this country gives the freedom of religion, everything i built around christian holidays and etc. winter holiday = xmas vaction. spring break = easter vacation. even if you change the name no one's stupid. we know why we got the break. i'm hindu so why can't there be a break during diwali? what i'm saying is that even though we're not christian or etc... why can't we have a piece of the pie? we have to set our events around our schedules while schedules are nationaly cleared for you. why not have a little merriment in that time? it's only fair.

Well... my parents USED to be religous and do all that stuff. but now, they arent but they still celebrate X-Mas... not easter though. But i cant 'not' participate in it. They are still going to get me presents, i cant reject them.

if this is a free country than why not. and how do you know that it is "christmas"? it could be just a celebration, beside "christmas" is for praying not presents I think you have lost sight.

they are not damaging YOU in any way. they are celebrating for fun! while you are doing it for your "god"

I was just wondering if you, personally, would rather only have CHRISTIANS celebrate the nation's holiday? So the others and the ones who dont even go to church (like my whole family and I) have to sit out the whole month of december? Just becuase the name Christmas has Christ in it and only Christians should celebrate??

Im sorry but I think that, that kind of topic shouldnt even be discussed because like the others said, Christmas is really a nations holiday. Not religious. Im just a bit confused with this whole thing, thats all.

I like celebrating Christmas becuase I get to help out the needy and I get reginition for what I do, not just in December but the whole year, personally, I dont think anybody is really THAT religious to argue about a nations holiday, thats just not cool, I think its kinda wrong to think "inside the box" about a holiday thats been celebrated for YEARS on ends.

LaterZ

-Courtney

nope not saying that. if you aren't christian and then criticize christmas but then look forward to gifts and all then its being hypocritical and thats what we don't like. even though u aren't a christian you can still take part in christmas but then the other 364 days of the year don't be like "i hate god"..blah blah..(and the same for easter and such)

Christmas is not the nations holiday, it is religous. If it were an actual nations holiday they would recognixze it nationally as Christmas and we wouldn't get off for "winter holidays", but for in obseverance of Christ's birth.



Um Christmas is not FOR prayer. Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birth. The gifts part came in accordance with the three wise men giving Jesus gifts when he was born.

And people could be damaging him, you don't know. and i would like it if you could atleast show respect for our God.

What's wrong with looking towards presents for the holidays? It's still a holiday because nationally, everyone celebrates it. Can we help it if we came to a culture that celebrate the winter holidays at the same time at the birth of Christ? I don't get why you all are so selfish about sharing a holiday. Dang.

Who would hate God?



Er, it's a cultural holiday. American celebrates a lot of holidays and if it is deem that everyone gets a vacation because no one in their right mind would want to go to work on days that they could get off, then what's the big deal about getting a few days off?

Because the post office doesn't work on Christmas, because most businesses are closed, because you can't even go to the movies on Christmas, why would we consider it a religious holiday? Because it's called so? Many people close their businesses because it is EXPECTED to be so, and why work when no one really wants to do anything in the cold?



Just like we adopted the tradition of eating a turkey on Thanksgiving Day, we adopted the tradition of giving and sharing presents.



Imagine this, you're invited into a Hindu celebration (for whatever purpose). You're there to have fun right? Would you consider caring much about the their gods?

Me? Sure, I'd respectfully stay quite and out of their way but I'll not participate in their praying/chanting because I wouldn't know how, and because I don't believe in what they're doing.

Just like that, I would be as respectful to God on Christmas as I am on any other day of the year. But I'll still give and accept presents; I'll still sing carols for no religious purposes but for the fun of it; I'll still do what I do on holidays: relax and have fun.

What more do you expect?

to me, christmas is a time for caring, a time for people to be nice.
it is not a religious holiday.

i know christians who don't get christmas presents, they are the ones truely celebrating christmas.

i celebrate the ideal of giving that christmas embodies.

and i am not christian.

and yet i celebrate christmas. not christmas the birth of jesus,
but christmas the season of giving.

same thing, i used to celebrate easter with a nice easter egg hunt, cus it was fun.

and if you're sticking with your argument, then you shouldn't celebrate valentine's day, because although valentine was a saint, the holiday is pagan.

When i was quoting the other person i wasn't talking about the topic's arguemnt. I was just asking for them to show respect or atleast stop trying to belittle my faith and God. Because of what they said and also other things they have said about God and things. I don't ask anyone to believe or to love God i just ask for people to respect other people and what they believe. I have gotten so fed up with people calling my religion stupid, and meaningless, and that i'm not bright for believing in God. Some people might say that is a stupid reason to get upset over but i love God and my Christianity therefore i take it serious and am passionate about it.

I'll bet the phrase "X-mas" really pisses you off, eh Kryogenix?

You do realize that we're all stupid in our own ways. I know I am for believing the things I do, because like you, I have no "facts" nor "proof" for what I say, I only say them confidently out of faith. That's something we have in common right? Faith?

In face of religion, there are three kinds of people: the believers, non-belivers, and the people in between (who don't care for either). (There may be others, but I'm just talking in the broad sense).

Non-believers and believers will bash each other. You may not be included in those numbers of bashers, but you know the truth is that there is no escaping criticism by people in religion and people out of it.

I come to this board to debate about God because I'm sick and tired of being criticized about my concepts in real life. It's so crazy that I had a relationship go haywire because of religion. I can almost say that I despise it.

Anyway, I'm just as passionate in my beliefs as you are in yours. I don't tell people that I hate them because of their beliefs, I tell them I hate them because they don't respect the fact that they believe one thing's right and say that what I believe in is wrong. I respect you and other Christians enough to the point of saying that your belief may be the right one, but I hold true to the belief that mine may be right as well.

No one is bright for believing something "unproven", and every single person breathing on this earth is guilty of that.

But you love God, and I love giving and accept presents on holidays no matter the occasion, religious or not. You can pray and have fun, and I can have fun in my own way. If God truly means for us to have free will, then He cannot hate or be mad at me for living as He wished me to be. And if He's not mad at me, why should you or any other Christian/Catholic be?

FYI Easter is the ressurection of jesus, right? Yea, children really celebrate christmas without knowing the true meaning of that day. Unless they go to service on christmas, then they wont know unless their parents tell them. All the christmas movies have to do with santa and what not. I know of some kids that celebrate christmas, even if they aren't christian or catholic. They just do it to "fit" in or parents do it to their children so that the child wont feel jealous. But what i dont get about christmas is why we give EACH OTHER presents? Why do we put up christmas lights? Why do we wear red and green? Why do we give kids presents on Easter? Why do we have egg hunts in easter? I think christmas is getting more and more commercialized. Unfortunatly, people do celebrate christmas and easter as if it was a non-religious holiday like halloween. I think people have a choice. To celebrate christmas as the birth of jesus, or chirstmas as the season of giving. But hypocrits are another thing. If you really talk bad about christians or catholics or jesus, then why would you wanna celebrate christmas? That's the problem, most people celebrate christmas or easter for the presents, not the meaning

There were a couple of Christmas-es that our whole neighborhood had lights up and my parents thought that would be fun to have lights, too, and told me to get some. Of course I complied, but our lights were no where near as extravagent as our neighbors, but my family had fun putting the lights up because we were spending quality time together. <-- Who'd want to stop people from loving each other and spending time with each other only because they can't share a holiday?

You're right, everyone has a choice in what to do for celebration. After all, I heard that God gave His creation free will.

If anyone has THAT big of a problem with sharing his/her religious holidays with his/her fellow human beings, then just think of it as the rest of us celebrating the ending of the year and the coming of a new year, or even the coming of snow.

see, holiday spirit.

christmas isn't about christ anymore. it's become a holiday to celebrate your family and give.

and why do you need to be christian to do that?