Requesting source of that.

"More Jesus, Less Religion"

if i had a gun to your head, could you, as a christian, give me a good reason to not pull the trigger?

what i'm saying is that... no, not even christians take their religion seriously. none of them act as if this a merely a waiting room to the office of ETERNAL f*ckING HAPPINESS.

Which is why I brought up Islam earlier. Muslims will die for theirs.

I don't need to give you a good reason not to pull the trigger. Either way, you can do what you want.

Why do I get the feeling you have sort of a "if you don't read the bible, YOU MUST BE RIGHT" sort of motta going on

way to answer a question, dummy.

Your a type of person who thinks they are always right.. and I feel sorry for you. :(

First off, why I'm posting in the Debate thread when I told myself I wouldn't ever again years ago is beyond me. But, I'm bored, and ignorance is calling out to be bashed by my YOU'RE-A-FcUKING-IDIOT hammer. Mmmm, I love wielding this baby... Good times.

What I was going to say has already been said and you've already been made to look like a fool, so I won't pull a rewind and press play here, but I thought I'd add a little something. I'm not holding my breath for a response 'cause I'm sure you've already left running from this forum with your tail between your legs. Warning: You may want to wear a helmet before reading this so you don't make a mess in your moms basement when I blow your mind.

Have you ever stopped and thought where those morals you were instilled with from childhood came from? It's undeniable that Christianity has been the biggest influence on this country's values and structure. I know people often try to deny that fact, but it's undeniably true. I believe the reason people are kind at all stems from religions like Christianity. They teach those basic principles to be kind, considerate, and to "Love thy neighbor." These teachings have been widely accepted for generations and generations. Over time, a very, very long time mind you, this created that "common sense" you speak of. That common sense you seem to enjoy flaunting is directly related to that several thousand year old book you obviously despise.

This thought process of mine is based on my belief that people are naturally animal like in behavior. Evil, if you will. That's a different debate entirely.

I don't mean to come off as such an ass, but really kid. Oh, and tell your mom I said hi.

you're the type of person who is an idiot... and, i barely, if at all, feel sorry for you.
you want to know what would be more convincing than this crock? if you actually attempted a rebuttal.



WRONG.

1. secular societies with fewer religious believers tend to be less dysfunctional, less violent, & less crime ridden. more religious societies are more violent, suffer greater youth mortality, see more instances of teenage pregnancy & abortion, & are more crime ridden. [1]
2. our judicial system is based on british common law. british common law predates any introduction to christianity in the west. thus, exists independent of christian ideology.
3. the treaty of peace & friendship, passed by the senate & signed by our second president, john adams reads: "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." [2]
4. many of our founding fathers & brothers (including our first five presidents) were not christians. [3]
5. thomas hobbes introduced the idea of the social contract. essentially, our "moral character" is based entirely on pragmatic principles of self-interest. if i agree not to kill anyone, people will agree, in return, not to kill me. if i refuse to steal from others, in return, others will agree not to steal from me; this secures society as well as your individual person. [4]
6. evolution can rather easily explain the most basic foundations of moral behavior. even further, altruism is apparent in many animal species, observed both in laboratories & nature. if non-human animals can posses altruism, what does this say for religion as a necessary foundation in morality, or as a foundation at all? [5]
7. what came first, the social norm, the instinct? do you think that religion has been "revealed" to man for all of time? is there a greater explanation for the seemingly cohesive foundation of moral character within all of humanity? don't kill, don't steal, etc?

if we received anything at all from religion, it is only vicarious. society constructs religion, then religion enforces the norms and mores of society. what happens, however, when you give these norms and mores mystical connotations & metaphysical powers, you suffer the pains of social lag [6]. you see, the only things we're "getting from religion," right now... are homophobia, sexism, racism, ethnocentrism, bigotry, & popular insanity. we get a feeling of guilt from the act of masturbation, we get the fear of sexual contact before marriage, and we get banks & liquor stores closed on sundays. if christianity disappeared, those things would, likely, disappear. however, with or without christianity, america stands more or less as it was (the constitution & declaration of independence) & we still don't kill one another, & we still don't steal from one another (consider further, atheists are less likely to commit crime).

ok so when u look at the phrases people use now a days
isn't on them "Oh my God" or "Jesus Christ"
what kinda of devotion to religion is that if you jus holla your gods name for any little thing.

also if you threaten any christians life i'm sure u'll get something like "you're goin to hell" or something along those lines. Christians seem to be afraid to die even thought they KNOW if they do they're jus goin to a better place. if that's the case then why trip on it.
Muslims certianly are heavily devoted to their religion if they are willing to die for it.

Nate pretty much said it all.

Human behavior existed before religion did. When religion came along, they didn't magically make up new morals or ideas. They were based on already there human behavior and religion's purpose is to emphasize the need for those behaviors. Religion is just a guide/purpose for being a well behaving human by promising some sort of reward in life or afterlife.

As for our country's beliefs based off Christianity, most of the core morals: don't steal, don't cheat, don't murder... can be found anywhere. In countries that weren't based off Christianity. Which shows that those morals are inherently instilled at some level in humans and religion is only a reason to stick to them.

case and point

“Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.”

damn you did your homework lol
damn good points there too

For those who want to know why Christianity is a dying religion, or in other words why so many people are leaving is because simply put... Look up 'Horus'. Now don't think because the Christian Jesus is exactly the same as the Egyptian mythologies, that Jesus never existed, because that's definitely not the case.

And WarMachine, don't let these others discourage you. They're stuck inside the box and don't see the whole picture.

Religion in the western world is becoming a less and less relevant topic. The only religion that seems to be garnishing any attention whatsoever is Islam. Any thoughts on why this is?

You are looking at christianity in a very sterotypical way. Do you call all athelets junkies only because some of them use steroids? Their are many christians that are very true to their faith. They live thier lives by the teachings of their faith and there is nothing wrong with that. We are all human and we will all someday sin, this does not mean we cannot be forgiven for our sins. We all at times give into temptation christianity teaches that when you do fall god will be there for you if you ask for forgiveness you will be forgiven. I may be going through good times or bad i may have done something that im not proud of, but i will still go to church. Church is where i can express my beliefs with others who believe the same. It is like a sanctuary where i can feel part of something greater than myself. its where the good can outweigh the bad. I am not in anyway brainwashed or manipulated by the church. We all make our own decisions.

yeah. well at least in my school it is...

Fool.

i can't take it seriously. i wish i could, but i cant hold any faith in something that has been manipulated by humans through the centuries.

generally, i do think religion is taken quite seriously.

I can't take a lot of Christians and a lot of Christian denominations seriously. A lot of them like to pick and choose what rules they want to follow. A lot of them have random superstitious beliefs that have no basis whatsoever. If Christians won't take their own religion seriously, how can they expect others to?

Do you think I take my religion seriously?