hey I know you, welcome back

Subforums, I'm not to sure. I think its actually taking the debate forum to far. Maybe start out with pinned topics titled Religion and then have links of each topic title going to the topics there are. And maybe we need to clean out debate and start merging topics and making v.1 and v.2 topics.

i did think that there would be some kind of issue like that. i guess its just a matter is it really worth it to make the debate forum a queue

im starting to like ill's suggestion more and more though

Making the whole debate section a big queue. I think its taking away from this being a forum and just letting people post their opinions. Debates are heated discussions and if were stopping people from posting in there then I think its just going to die slowly.

I mean if people are posting a lot and then people forget to go and check the queue to accept/reject posts; members will get aggravated.

I believe we should break down the debate forum to different topics... just to keep things more clean, if that makes any sense. Such as science, philosophy/religion, politics, society (maybe somethin more general/broad) etc...

A debate isn't a discussion here you just state your opinion though. I think a lot of people forget that. There has to be actual debating to be a debate.

thank you, holly. i like being back.
and i agree with you, trish. we need to make it crystal clear to people that they need to BACK UP their opinions with facts.

but i think the last thing we need are more subforums.

Hi Radhika. Long time no see.

About the debate forum, I don't go in there nearly as much as I used to, but maybe that's because a lot of the topics in there are pretty much the same.

Honestly, though, rather than restricting access to the debate forum, why don't those of you who spend a lot of time in there tell us what kinds of posts/topics you would and would not like to see? Perhaps we could write up a stricter set of rules just for that forum.

Also, just throwing this out there, but.. Similar to how MOTM "moderates" the VIP lounge but doesn't have backstage access.. Perhaps debate forum moderators? I know, I know, it's a crazy idea, but there are people who could do it. So.. maybe? I don't know, I'm just throwing ideas out because we've been talking about how much people hate the debate forum for a long time, and the thing is.. What do we DO? It's clear that we need stricter rules and better enforcement, so why not let those who are more passionate about posting in the forum take care of it, under supervision of the regular moderators? *shrug*

I like this idea, but I still think our people staff should be able to do this as well.

^Oh I definitely agree. I just figure that the debate forum alone needs a BIT more attention than most forums, and we shouldn't require our people staff to live there. Keep an eye on things, oversee the debate forum mods, etc., but those who moderate the debate forum can keep the forum the way they want it (to an extent).

edit; Anyone who were to take this would basically have no requirements other than to display a mature attitude in that forum over a certain period of time. No requirements for post count, ppd, regular activity, etc. This would exist to help them, not for them to help us. That's why I wouldn't consider this position a "regular mod" position.

I don't agree with having a specific mod for debate forum. Current mods right now should be able to do this already.

why should debate needs more attention than any other? i think all forums should be equally modded. i mean lounge has more drama and spam and relationship also. just because we "treasure" the debate forum, doesn't mean it's actually better than the other forums.

I think it's because debates tend to become personal, which lead to personal attacks, then a flame war, then the thread goes to shit without finishing the debate and havin no closure

I edited - my big issue about this is that it's an "if you guys want to take matters into your own hands" kind of thing.

This would not exist for them to help US because we're lazy or can't handle it. It's so they can get what they want and see to it that it's handled the way they want it to be handled.

edit again; The debate forum needs more attention because in order to keep things at a mature level, it needs stricter rules. Therefore those rules need to be enforced more strictly, and thusly the debate forum requires a bit more effort to be looked after.

Of course were not asking our people staff to live in debate, but I mean as Tung said. They should be able to keep an eye out on all the forums. To be honest, I don't think any of our people staff really goes in there. At least when JC was on staff he goes in there a lot and he kept an eye on it. I don't think asking someone else in the community to be a debate staff would be fair. They should just be on people staff, if they show maturity in the debate forum then I'm sure they can keep that level of maturity to moderate other little things around the community forums. As I said like in my first post in here, maybe we just need to hire someone else for people staff that we all see if fit to keep an eye out on the debate forums.


I think the debate forum should be handled as the rest of the community forum. The bashing and crap shouldn't slip by in the other forums. It should be handled the same way.

And forums like Pictures or Relationships shouldn't get more attention? I see alot of bashing and spam in relationships and nobody ever seems to mod them. And it could be way more personal than in debate. like "haha you're an idiot kid, stfu you don't know anything about sex ahhaha" .

^ Yea seriously, relationships gets some harsh bashing from time to time. People asking for simple help and getting told how stupid they are?

*shrug* Like I said, just throwing an idea out there. I figured it wouldn't be accepted very well, so that's fine. I really would like to hear what those who frequent debate think about this.

Other forums are light, and several are a bit more serious. I definitely don't think that some of the bashing that goes on in any of these forums SHOULD be happening. I don't think that debate requires more moderation necessarily than relationships, and it doesn't require that MOST moderation - what I'm saying is that it requires more than a lot of the other forums. Anyway, like I said, we need a more strict set of forum-specific rules (possibly for other forums, too, but right now we're just discussing debate) that need to be more strictly enforced.

I'm sure our people staff can handle it - honestly, I am. I only suggested this as a way of giving them at least some weight on the situation.

Well, maybe you can make a VIP debate sub-forum within the actual debate forum. The regular forum can stay how it is, but the VIP one will be actual debates. It's hard to have a real debate with every single person in cB voicing an opinion and turning around to bash each other.

It can be application based. Requirements can be a minimum amount of posts by the person in the debate forum, then a mod or someone can look at those posts and if they're acceptable (content based without blatent bashing, etc), they can join the VIP forum.

Just a suggestion.

So have a debate forum for only the Officials? I think its going a little to far. I mean I think it would just be as dead as the VIP lounge, at least the VIP lounge is starting to pick up it looks like though.

THIS HAS BEEN MY IDEA FOREVER (JUST READ THE OUTLINE, WHAT):Make The Debate Forums Exclusive: An Idea Outlined.

I can not even begin to tell you how many intelligent, capable, and (semi)willing people I have seen come in and (right back) out of the debate threads. Serious participants can easily be discouraged by a board that doesn't handle argumentation maturely and meaningfully. Arguably, debate takes a lot more thought, time, and effort than any other forums in the community center; why not take extra care for the people that devote themselves there? It's not fun working hard, only to have everything you've done spat the f**k on. In fact, that shit sucks - and, it happens all the time in our debate threads. f**king jokers.

Im sorry, completely off topic but have you guys noticed that this so called "lets get rid of the debate" thread is turning into a debate, .... nvm

ok so personally I think that people use to debate forums to vent and if you act stupid then your going to loose your respect anyway and thats harsh enough, I dont think people should be banned on certain boards because then peopl are going to feel disrespected and not go on the forums and like Tung said if we did what the topic starter wants then we would only have like 4 people in the debate threads

Amen brotha.. amen.

People aren't complaining about those forums, though. There really isn't a need for change unless there's negative feedback from the people, right? People obviously have a problem with Debate in its current condition, so the mods can either ignore the complaints or do something about it. It seems as if they're choosing to ignore the complaints.

But, yknow Tung, if you have a problem with all the personal bashing in the pictures/relationships/etc forums and feel that the mods aren't doing their job in preventing it, you should really bring it up.

Mods don't give a shit about the minority (us). We are only 1 person out of 1000+. So that's why I don't see why we need to change the debate forum, if it's just a minority of people out of 1000+ people.

I'm just saying this from what I've learned from Jusun and his forum reorganization thread.

did you not even read this thread? there are mods and admins in here discussing how they can make the members in debate forum more happy by adding on additional moderation

Aww, come on Tung, you don't really think that, do you? Rebecca and I (and oh god her more than me) LIVE in the feedback forum, and many of the other mods do as well. We DO want to take everything into consideration and that's why I've spent so much time in here trying to come up with something that would make - not everyone - THESE people happy. Changes to the debate forum affect only those who post regularly in the debate forum, so I'm addressing those people - the minority, not CB as a whole.

Many of the issues that get addressed around here are centered around the general CB "population" and what would make a majority of the members happy. But we all know that it doesn't always work that way, and honestly, you make it seem like we turn into completely different people when we're put on staff. We aren't. We have friends, we have personal problems, we go to school and work. I AM A PERSON AND MY NAME IS ANAKIN. That kind of thing.

But really, that doesn't mean we completely ignore everything that comes through here - quite the contrary, really, we put a lot of time and effort into responding to these things. And against what we might lead you to believe, what we're doing is giving our opinions. No agenda, we aren't ignoring people we don't care about or anything. When we post in here, we're posting as members who DO have a say in this just as much as you guys do. And as I proved with my suggestion to add more moderators to the debate forum, if you guys don't like our ideas, we won't implement them, just like if people don't like ideas you guys bring up.

Just saying.. We're not that much different in that regard.

lets call the WAHmbulance.

why?

I just think people are taking what Jusun said out of context, and way too far up the butt.

seemed like valid input to me

When you remark on something that you're taking completely out of context, how is that valid?

well it's how tung feels i guess

that means it's valid?

why wouldn't it be? it's his opinion. it's as valid as anyone elses opinion.

apparently if atheist can take things out of context, it still makes their points valid. so I guess we should just take things out of context at any given time.

you mean it's as valid as anyone elses invalid opinions.

I'm just wondering - if someone like NoSex or the handful of other people I see in the debate forum that really involve themselves in the actual debate were willing to mod that forum and that forum only, would it really be such a hard thing to do? Maybe try it out for a month? Give them access to mod that forum only and if it's successful, make it permanent, if it's not, then just de-mod them.

Just wondering.

I'd be willing to at least TRY this for a few weeks and see where it goes, but I still feel as if the people staff should be able to handle this. I don't know where the rest of the staff stands on this though, so I guess we'll wait.

mostly i just meant that his opinion wasn't really worthy of bitchy reply.

I thought it was. I guess that's my opinion.

true story

i would say your face is a true story, but no one has ever seen it, so i can't say for sure if it's true.

oh ok makes sense

Are you kiddin me? Do you not see how biased and condescending he is? Ha! You'd need a non-biased mod. Keep this forum as democratic as you can possibly keep it, please.

When I say mod, I mean someone who'll get rid of the extraneous posts (i.e. nquack's inputs that make no sense to begin with). I don't know Nate, but even though he has his mind set in his own beliefs (as do you, Tama), I don't think he would misuse power. People who debate like it when there are contradicting view-points. Otherwise, there'd be no debate, am I right?

But yknow, that's just my opinion.
I'm not as into the debate forum as you and Nate are.

i like the moderating idea, but who exactly would be doing the moderating? shouldn't there be a set of guidelines as to what a person should be looking for in terms of good/bad debate posts? if there is any bias in a debate mod, we should call them out for it, imo.

Yes, I would like to have a new set of rules for the debate forum before we think about anything else, but I figured this is a possibility for keeping it moderated by allowing SOME of that responsibility to be passed along to people who really care about the debate forum.

But first, what exactly would need to be moderated? We do need stricter debate forum rules.

Idk. When the topics start to consist of two people going back and forth throwing personal attacks and going completely off-topic - that's something that should be stopped. Maybe a verbal warning, then an actual warning. I know that this goes on in every forum and it's the people staff's job to regulate this, but it seems as if most of the staff members tend to overlook the debate forum, thus letting such arguments go on for pages and pages. That's why I think letting someone interested in debate moderate it (like the people staff moderate the rest of the forums) would be a pretty good idea.

And also, spam should be cut down. Posts that consist of a smiley face or a personal jab or the shit that nquack would post should be... I dont wanna say deleted but... just cut down somehow?

Debates can go from consisting evidence to personal views. When you become condescending then things tend to fire up, causing personal attacks, flame wars, hurt feelings etc...

yeah, but wouldn't it be nice to stop the personal attacks/hurt feelings before they span 3 pages?

i have an idea that i saw on another forum: on there, they have a subforum called politics & religion that is only visible to certain members (kind of like the VIP lounge) and one has to have a certain number of posts in order to post in that particular subforum.

seems like i'm beating a dead horse, but it works for them really well. they get some really interesting discussions on there.