same
i don't see how it can come to anything besides the fact that god just made everything work. then he made all geologic and other evidence of such an event disappear.

Yeah, exactly that's why it doesn't really phase me when people nick pick at the minute details of the Bible. As a Christian, what really matters is the core message.

^ i understand, and agree. what i don't understand though, is that since the over all message is what's really important anyway, why is there such an insistence that the bible is the perfect and literal word? that claim seems to only make more problems for the believer. instead of just admitting that no, it might not be perfect and literal, but the message it's trying to give is.

i think one of the only reasons people pick at little details in the bible, is not because they really think it's important, but it's because for some reason the other person believes there's no way it could be wrong.

if i were christian, it wouldn't phase me either, i wouldn't take the bible as being perfect or absolutely true. i didn't take it that way before i was and atheist. i never, and still don't, see any reason to. i guess there are those who really don't see any problems with them, though.

it seems like some people claim it's literal, just to be claiming that. they themselves know how ridiculous and impossible the things are.

No idea. To be honest with you, the only answer I can give you is the one which would be thrown out immediately, "God provides." So I won't put that in there, since we're reasoning with logic and science. I don't know much on this topic, to be honest with you.

It's to my understanding that in Noah's time, the Earth was radically different, which may be able to explain much of the changes of the Earth now and why we don't have any solid idea on what happened. On the food theory as well, I don't know.

I believe that the Bible was divinely inspired and that it was God-breathed, so personally, I take all the historic parts literally.

The food came in stacks of one hundred, so instead of taking up one hundred slots in your bag, it only took up one.

Plus Noah probably had like, 6 bags.

20 slots each, and by one food, I mean enough food to feed an aircraft carrier.

it seems like some animals would require fresh food

Well he had to kill someone. God forgave him.

dude the part where it said how he(was it noah or some other dude?) crossed the red sea. that was completely wrong translation. he didn't separate the red sea and cross it. it was the reed sea. as in a pond of reeds. explain that!

^No u

seriously, u should first.
i don't get how we're supposed to be convinced by someone who doesn't even know enough about the story to know which "dude" it was.

i definitely think there's a lot of mistranslations in the bible. however, i don't think this is one of them. there's various places where this sea is talked talked about. i remember one story about king soloman building a fleet of ships? or at least many ships, near the shore of the red sea. a pond of reeds is a strange place to build a fleet of ships. i duno, a pond of reeds just really makes no sense when u put it into any of these stories. if they were merely wading across a marshy pond of reeds, then i don't get why the bible would make this out to be something that needed an act of god, or why this would be significant at all.

maybe i'm wrong though, i'm not a bible expert. even if it isn't the red sea, i really don't think ur translation of a "pond of reeds" makes any sense.

maybe podo has more information on this though. i could be off about the stories as well

Wow...just. Wow.

If you are going to give me an example of an incorrect statement in the Bible, you had better back it up. Now, like JC said, there are other times the Red Sea is mentioned, and where King Solomon built a fleet of ships yes, on the Red Sea. Can you build a ship on a pond, let alone a fleet of them?

I'd like to see a credible source on this one. You yourself seemed to have translated wrong. How does a sea become pond?

I have no idea of what's going on in this thread.



You're confusing Moses with Noah.

yeah moses. i heard it on national geographic. he didn't split a whole ocean. it's more like he split a whole bunch of reeds and crossed to the other side. well i don't know if national geographic could be wrong. haha. it could

i think the hebrew word could be translated as reed or seaweed. seaweed would kinda indicate a sea, ya know? when it comes to translations like this, i don't think anyone really knows, u just have to consider which one works better in the story. like i said before, why would this even be significant if it was just a pond of reeds? we can obviously see the significance if it was a sea.

pond is still just way off and a bad choice of words. i think the scholars who deny it as being the red sea, think it's more of a big lake. there's a big difference between that and a pond

No I saw the movies. He split the ocean and when the Egyptians came chasing after him, he let it fall and they all got wet and had to go back to dry their clothes off.

ok yea, pond is smaller than a lake. but a lake is loads smaller than an ocean. and if he did really split the whole ocean wouldn't it have taken miles to cross it? what do you think? an ocean or a lake?

Either way, it wouldn't really matter. Moses was leading well over a 100,000 Israelis out of Egypt. A lake is pretty deep regardless.

Oh. The Dead Sea isn't necessarily an ocean.

^x2


i don't really think either, because i don't believe it happened in the first place. i just didn't think u made any sense.

I didn't mean to interrupt the serious discussion, but that was hilarious.

So, what's up with God hiding Moses' body?

Think about this, even if there isn't a good, it's not a bad thing to believe in, it teaches you to be a good person with good standards, and if there is a good then when you die then your fine, so if your a person who doesn't believe in god when there is then oh shit you go to hell...so there's really nothing to lose if you believe in him. Thats the way I see it, better safe then sorry :)

Also, there's alot of metaphors in the bible, so did he REALLY split the ocean or was it a metaphor? We don't know, evidence would suggest both answers are correct.

I also think how our body works and how perfect it is, how perfect the world is and how everything goes together is to complex to not be a good, it didn't just happen by accident.

Theory of evolution is bullshit, if we descended from monkey's then why are there still monkey's?

Theory of the big bang...I think is stupid.

we can be equally good people with good standards without it. u don't think people can be good without being threatened? that's a bad reason to be a good person.


wow, sounds like a really cowardly reason to believe in something to me.


how can u say it's bullshit when u clearly know nothing about it?

JC, the morals and ethics that you stand by are based on Christian ethics and morals.

Exactly.
And I don't believe in big bang because in my mind it makes more sense to believe created this and not some explosion in space that came out of no where.

I didn't say my reasons for being a Christan is because 'incase there is a god' I just said hey better safe then sorry.

so nobody had morals before Christianity came along? i'm about to go eat lunch, i'll reply better when i get back.

I'll wait before I reply then.

I completely disagree with AestheticYOU. I don't see what having faith has to do with morals. They are totally different. I also find it to be very ridiculous stating that only Christians have morals (which is what you implied in your first post).

As for your better be safe than sorry theory, I'm sorry but that's bullshit. How pathetic and hypocritical is it to believe in someone up there without actually knowing why you believe?

yeah i'll agree with sandra. it seems that u two are saying that to be moral, u must be christian. this means that a good number of people in the world are not moral, just because they are not christian. this also i suppose would mean that everyone prior to christianity must be immoral.

so u think that morality comes from god then?

i have the same problem with this as plato and socrates then i guess. is something moral because it's moral, or is something moral simply because god says it is?

if something is only moral because god says so, then i don't think we can really take it as seriously. right or wrong could be anything. god could say murder and slavery are moral, and they would be, just because god said they were. if things are only right or wrong on god's command, then that's just trivial and holds no weight. so then i think we can pretty much conclude that god tells us things are wrong, because they really are wrong. if god commands things to be wrong, because they are...then something being wrong, doesn't depend on god. they are wrong, that's why god says they are. so then take god out of the picture and they are still wrong.

basic moral principles exist all over the world, in all different types of religions, and pre-date christianity.

there's many things in the bible that make it not a consistent morality guide. for instance when moses commands the troops to kill every woman and every child in midian, but not the young virgins. the troops may keep the virgins for themselves. there's repeated times when things take place in the bible that are simply not moral.

i don't really see how my morals and ethics are based on "christian ethics and morals".

• which moral precepts do christians teach that nobody else teaches?

• which morals has christianity given us that weren't already established in cultures before it?

You misunderstood me, I never said only Christians have morals, I said it's not a bad thing to be one if there isn't a god because of the good morals it teaches you. You can have good morals and not be Christian, but good morals are based off Christianity.

My whole point is it doesn't matter why someone believes in it, because it's not a bad thing to believe in.

I never said that was my reason to believe. My reasons for believing is because it's what I was raised on, it makes sense to me, I like to have faith. Why is that such a bad thing? Isn't it better to have some hope then none?

You two are putting words in my mouth I never said you have to be christian to be a good person.

And my username isn't aestheticYOU, thats a different person.

read my post above and tell me how good morals are based off of christianity. how is that not saying that people who aren't christian don't have good morals? if good morals exist outside of christianity, wouldn't that mean that morals are then not based on it? that doesn't make sense to me. there are people all over who haven't been exposed to christianity, what are they're morals based on? whatever it is, they must be bad morals, if the base of good ones is christianity.

How much life do you think existed before Christianity?

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's

What is it to you that makes someone a good person? For me, it's someone who is loyal, sincere, cares for others, doesn't steal from others, doesn't cheat, and so on...what else are most of those? The 10 commandments. How much do you really know about other religions to know what they really consider to be a good person? It varies from person to person.

Even so how can you call someone who is a christian a bad thing? Why is it so bad? Because of the chance there might be a god? If there's not, who cares. Is it wrong to not want to steal, lie, cheat and murder? There may those who say we are stupid for believing there is a god, but at least we have faith, what do those who don't have?

It still doesn't make sense Aesthetic (sorry for mixing up usernames). Again, I don't see how morals is based from the ten commandments. I'm sure Jesus was merely stating the obvious.

By the way, being a Christian isn't bad. Just as it isn't bad to be an Atheist, Diest or Agnostic.

u do realize our country was established on religious freedom, and the first commandment completely undermines that, right? then nobody should worship anyone before yahweh. doesn't sound very free to me.

i didn't say being a christian was a bad thing. did u even read my post? because u didn't answer anything asked in it.

how much life existed before christianity?

wow, what the hell are u talking about? greek civilization wasn't anything? that's just an example, i can't believe u even said this. what do u think there was before christianity? it really sounds like u have no clue at all what ur saying, or any history on any of this.


right. and this can only be accomplished with a base in christianity?

don't bother replying to this until u've replied to my two previous posts, and actually answered the questions in them.

^ I was going to mention the life before Jesus thing but refrained. You're going way away from what we're talking about Aesthetic and you're becoming confusing.

As a christian I believe it's a small price to pay for eternal happiness..to worship only him.

What are you talking about, do you know for a fact that greeks were here before christian religion was created? For a long time it was practiced in secrecy.

And even if it undermines freedom, you still have a choice to choose your own religion.

I didn't even bother reading your entire post, because I feel as though you are twisting my words.

^ What are YOU talking about? Christianity didn't exist before Christ and there was LIFE before Christ so uhmm?

And who do you think existed before christ? I dont know about you but in my bible it says there was god, then adam and then eve.

ROFL. So Adam and Eve were Christians? I don't think so. Christianity started AFTER Christ died by his apostles. You're becoming way too confusing now.

agh I give up, I'm not good as explaining myself, I know what I'm trying to say it's just not coming out right I guess. I'm not trying to convert you guys or anything.

Anyway, I'm off to make dinner.

...uhm....this went well.

Anyways, I'm not implying that being a Christian means you'll have good morals.

I'm saying your basis of morals came from Christianity.

In Ancient Greece and Rome, there was no such thing as something called compassion. Aristotle says compassion is rather a vice than a good thing. Look at the Spartans. Leaving a child to die on a mountain, is that moral?

It wasn't until Christianity came along that said " Thou shalt not murder. "

" Love one and another. "


BTW, JC, yes, our Country was formed to have religious freedom, but our forefathers and the framers created our government with God in mind.

Oh, and JC. Another one. Do you remember your question about the Bible promoting slavery?

I still have no answer to that, but keep in mind. It was the American Puritans and the American Christian Evangelicals that implied theologically that since God stated that all men are created equal, no man is allowed to rule over another.

So, the awareness that slavery is wrong came from Christianity.


Oh, and to answer your question.

Compassion, and love. In ancient times, where war and slaughter was all too common, the Bible went completely opposite of what the world said. Turn the other cheek.

In many societies, love is not something that cultures teach. Look at Asian cultures. Fathers and mothers don't show their love to Asian parents as much as an American father may. Christianity says to love full heartedly.

Oh. AND!

Most of Greek philosophers were greaty influenced by Christianity. ( i.e. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Herodotus, Euripedes, ) You can see Christian influence written all over.

i still don't really see how u know that i got my morals from christianity when these morals exist outside of christianity. yeah i suppose we can look at some other places and pick out morals such as leaving kids on mountains that are clearly wrong. but i don't see how this means my morals are christian. there's just as many examples of wrong morals in the bible. such as the one about rape, or about slavery, or other instances where my morals don't agree.

christianity coming along and saying "thou shalt not murder" doesn't mean that nobody else had a clue this was a bad thing until christians told them. same goes for "love one another". u really think that the only source for this could be christianity? we wouldn't know killing was bad and loving as good any other way?

the forefathers and framers created it with freedom of religious choice in mind. they didn't create it with yahweh specifically in mind, unlike the ten commandments. besides we could argue a good number of the framers and forefathers were deists or atheists and went to great length to not be specific about god.

i honestly don't believe that christianity is the reason that i love people, or the reason my parents love me. i don't think that it's teaching is the reason for that, at all. i don't really see why i wouldn't love these people regardless.

which christian influences are written all over most greek philosophers?

and i still wanna know what u think. do u think something is good because it truly is, or do u think something is good because good says that it is?