I know exactly how you feel Sandraaa.
When I was little I had faith, as I got older I started to lose that faith, and I can still remember the day I knew God did not exist in me.

It was a few days after my dad died and my youngest sister came to me crying, I wrapped her up in my arms and she looked at me and asked "Does God hate Daddies or does God hate me?". I will never ever forget that, and I think because of that one sentence from the innocent child that didn't deserve the life she had I will never be able to fully believe, even when I do try.

If there were proof that God existed (I mean solid proof) then you would have no need for faith. God would simply exist. No-one would dispute it, everyone would be a Christian. Religion would loose it's meaning. It wouldn't be difficult. Nothing that has meaning is easy. Religion wouldn't work with solid proof.



That's a really touching story. I don't know what to say. If I were you I would try my hardest to understand that everything happens for a reason, but I'm not you so... I could never truly understand. I'm sorry about your father. I would be devastated if I lost mine.

I do try. I try my hardest because when someone close to you dies it's SO much easier to believe they are in heaven rather than believing that they are just nothing now but a rotting corpse.

No matter how much I try, I just have no faith. I can't swallow the things the bible says without gagging. It was that way before my dad died and it goes double now.

Thanks for your condolences, but it's not really your fault. Unless you killed him

Josh,

Exactly. Why do we have to have faith? We know he exists and nobody disputes it. This way everyone can choose whatever they want to believe in knowing FULLY well that there is a God.

I have every reason not to believe in God. My life has been turned upside down so many times and something happened TODAY that made me cry and ask why God is choosing to neglect me (if He exists).

Some people need proof, others blindly believe. I want to believe wholeheartedly without having any doubts. I need proof, I need evidence otherwise I would be a hypocrite believing just for the sake of believing.

I have trouble having faith in something intangible. I'd rather be a good person practicing good morals regardless if I'm told to do so by a religion. If I'm a good person and there is a god, why wouldn't he take me? I don't go out of my way to cheat people, to harm people, to belittle people. If anything, I go out of my way to be nice and friendly, and to help people when they need help without expectation of the favor being returned. Also, why would he take repented sinners over someone who has nothing they need to repent?

Man rapes a girl, serves his time, "finds god", repents, goes on with his every day life, goes to heaven? He still raped a girl.

Man is friendly, atheist, helps people out because he's a good person. Does he still go to heaven even though he didn't rape the girl?

^ Nail on the head.

Also, my dad has this theory that once saved, saved forever. So you can f**k around but since you're a Christian, you're going to heaven. Many Christians think this way.

By the way, why would God allow a murderer/rapist/Rico to heaven, if they repent from their sins but let a wonderful/caring/upright unbeliever to hell for not believing? How hypocritical and messed up is that? Is that what you call loving?

SEE? I can't help it!

If he does goto heaven, he won't go to heaven un-judged. You are judged whether you goto heaven or not.

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. (NASB) Rev. 20:12-13

You cannot judge that man. Only God can. Many of my own family members and friends have been raped. Those who raped them will be judged by God. It's not my responsibility, and although I want to kill each and every one of those people. I can rest inside knowing that they will receive punishment equal to the amount of pain they caused. Every bit of grief it's cause that person and all the people around them. They will be judged for that just as I will be judged for the pain that I caused in my life time.

Everyone will be judged. Everyone will face what they have done.

^ But if they repent, they're definitely going to heaven according to the Bible.

But just because they are in heaven doesn't mean they will not face hell on the way there. They will face the wrath of God for what they have done. I don't' even want to imagine what they will face.

Anyway, do you have any idea how bad Hell is? Hell is so bad that no man can even begin to fathom how terrible it actually is. Read about it. Hell is fuckin terrible. If you ever witnessed hell, you would not want anyone to go there.

But what about the people who don't have faith? Will they just be sent to hell because they aren't faithful? Or maybe they'll eternally swim in the river Styx. I don't care about the sinners, I'm interested in y'alls' responses regarding non-faithful people who lead better lives than faithful people who will allegedly go to heaven.

How can they face the wrath of God if they repent? Does that mean that God would first punish them then send them to heaven?

Jesus did it, why can't you!?

'Cos I'm lazy.

They goto hell. that's where Jesus comes in. Jesus died on the cross for the sins of those who believed in him (past, present, and future). Yes, they do goto hell. We would all goto hell if it weren't for Jesus. He bears the burden of our impurity, and makes us pure so we can enter into heaven.



He judges them, that's all it says.

That reminds me of the joke. A guy goes to hell, and the devil is feeling gracious that day. He decides to let that man choose his punishment. The first is a man getting eternally stabbed and healed, then re-stabbed. The second is a beautiful woman giving a man an endless blowjob. The third is a man bring burnt eternally.

The man goes "This isn't a hard choice at all! I'll take the second one!"

The devil goes over to the woman, and taps her shoulder. He goes "You're free to go."


That seems pretty lame. IMO that means Christianity is more about believing than practicing being a good person.

Why would God send them to hell yet send criminals to heaven?

Take a look at Saddam Hussein, what if he repented at the last minute? Don't tell me he's eating golden chicken ribs in heaven!!!

Which is why I don't like Christianity as a whole. Not to say I have anything against Christians or firm believers in Christianity. More power to them. Also that's not to say that the Bible isn't a great book, I just don't have faith in what seems to be a shallow religion.

Look, just because you repent before you die doesn't mean you're going to heaven. Man sees the body. You see Sadam repent, but God sees his heart. If he truly repented then, yes, he will goto heaven; if he just repented as an insurance policy then he will goto hell. You can fool man, but you can't fool God. Why shouldn't a person who has repented and fully accepted the responsibility of his actions goto heaven.



If you want to look at it that way. It's fine, but Hell has to exist. If it was a system of deeds then it wouldn't work.

You know, the sad thing is that nobody will ever be able to prove that God indeed exists. I guess we're all going to be in the dark.

I just noticed you merged my topic :) I remember merging plenty of yours haha.

Anyways, this is how I interpret getting into heaven based on this conversation. You have to have faith and be a good person in general. Would I be correct to assume such?

That's why athiests will alway win these arguments. They can always prove that there is no proof. If you weren't forced to have faith, then you wouldn't have to choose anything. Things would simply be the way they are. God would be a FACT. Love is a choice. You choose to love or you choice hell. That's the way it works.



Yes and no, you could have lead a terrible life, but in the end if you truly did have faith and change your heart then you would goto heaven. No-one can fool God, no-one. If you're trying to fool him into thinking you're saved, then you're probably going striaght to hell.

Kk. Well what about desists? What about people that believe in a higher being that created everything and that is all powerful but isn't necessarily the Christian God? Do they go to hell?

I can't say. I mean, I hope not, but only God knows. I just follow the Bible. I don't think I would want anyone to goto hell.

Fair enough.

I merged your posts Steven.

yes, absolutely. i'm 100% sure of this, because i am.

god has some big block in his brain and can't comprehend the bigger picture. he can only see all the little trivial petty things that u aren't doing, so u have to burn in hell eternally. he doesn't want u to though, because he loves u. he's all powerful but he can't let u just cease to exist, because he's limited to only two choices, but he's all powerful.

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man i don't know. i understand what josh and podo are saying but still, i just don't get it. i don't get why god gets so bent out of shape over people not believing in him, especially when we have perfectly good reasons to not believe. he's god, he's all powerful and so much greater than us, he should be WAY past that in my opinion, not throwing a temper tantrum and burning me forever.

i think i just have major issues with everything about these claims of god the Christian religion makes. i suppose i just don't understand god, because even if this one existed, i still don't think i'd agree with it. i don't see a lot of rational reasons for the things he does and how he determines who's a good person or not.

i don't think steven should burn in hell.

It would seem that we share a similar stance, JC.

We have to realize that God is in everything. Christians only see God when something great happens, but when something bad happens, it's "nature."

We have to realize that we are in a battle of good and evil.

What happens when you guys finally realise that there is no God? And that all these 'feelings' you're feeling are not real?

There's nothing wrong with that. Everyone has doubts, and everyone feels like they're alone and it feels like basically, "Shit happens, and God doesn't care about shit."

While that may feel like so, it's honestly not true. God won't intervene with everything that happens in your life just because you are a Christian. I happen to know a great pastor who lost his wife and kids in a car accident.

What does God bring out of this? I really don't know. Was his family's life being lost merited? No clue.

But realize, Jesus Christ suffered. Life seems like " what goes around DOESN'T come around. " It's unfortunate. But have hope! Judgement comes for those who make others suffer, and a better life is just around the corner in the Gates of Heaven!

Perhaps the reason why you feel neglected is because you've also neglected God. Sometimes you have a longing for purpose in life, or sometimes you may feel like you need to belong somewhere.

That's God calling to you! He's calling you, and he wants you. Answer his call.

BTW, if I have your permission, I'd love to pray for you. PM me and we can talk.

That's the thing though, you can't prove that there is God. At the same time, you can't prove that there isn't. We will never come to any realization. You can only choose a side. I choose to believe.



This is what I was saying.

I quote myself on this. There are lots of things and lots of unfair things happening in life. Just because you are a Christian doesn't mean you are immune to "shit."

My heart goes out to you and your family. I have no answer as to why God would take your father. I can only say that the necessary action now is just to go back to God. You have to realize, that He gives and takes away. There's nothing we can do.

Like I said with Sandraaa, if I have your permission, I'd love to pray for you.

that reminds me. when my dad died a few months ago, everyone kept telling me to pray right, which was unrealistic to say to me. but still let's pretend that i wasn't atheist. why would i want to pray to something that was responsible for it in the first place?

what would i possibly have to say, thanks?...for killing off my dad. i don't get why i would be told to pray. so my question is what were they telling me to pray for?

Sandraa, let me explain. My life has been full of dissapointment and shame. I've been a druggie, sex addict, near alcoholic, smoker, and I had to deal with my friends trying to kill themselves from overdosing on drugs.

But one day I went to jail for some nasty shit. As stereotypical as it sounds, I heard something. I felt something. Like Moses who saw the burning bush from which God called him, my life was set on fire.

It was not just any fire that burned in this world. This fire would not consume me. It would drive me through my life. Christianity is meant to be discussed and to be debated. But Christianity is also meant to be felt.

Sandraa, I know it may seem like nobody gives a shit. It's true.

Nobody does. I quote the character from Oldboy, Oh-Dae-Su, "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and you cry alone."

But remember this, God cares. He watches over you and although it may seem like he's not there, you have to realize, you're ignoring him. Answer his call.

Remember the tale of the prodigal son? The son who left home, taking his part of the fortune, screwed up his life, and decided to come home and ask his father to become a slave because he didn't have anywhere else to go. The son came home, ready to become a slave, and an astonishing thing happened.

The father welcomed his son back with open arms, and had a feast for the return of his "faithful" son. ( In your case, daughter. )

Maybe they wanted you to pray for the ones who are suffering the loss (you being one of them). You guys are the ones who are hurting the most. I don't know. The only way you could know for sure is to ask them. It's also possible they were just trying to be as caring, didn't realize what was being said didn't make any sense, and said it.

^ true true, ur probably right. i guess maybe they just didn't know what else to say.

Of course, at this point, we get into the schematics of theology.

Some argue that you can still go to Heaven if you accept Jesus as your Savior right before you die.

Some argue that there has to be true repentance. ( Meaning, it's not just saying it. It's truly being changed. )

Those who believe in Jesus Christ right before they die are supposedly sent to the outskirts of Heaven where they learn more about Jesus Christ and his legacy before being allowed in.

This is where Christianity is so great. Would you forgive a rapist? The Bible says something extraordinary. Forgive him. Society now condemns all who make mistakes and once you go to a federal prison, you are basically screwed. Nobody wants to use you for an employee.

Of course, this is if the rapist truly repents. Most of the people who become believers are those who are just using it as insurance. They won't go to Heaven. Trust me.

They likely aren't going to heaven.

That's what I'm thinking.

Those who have faith will eventually hear God's call. From that point it's your choice.

Every human being in this world will realize that there is something greater than us. Something immensely more powerful than we can imagine. From that point, it's your choice.

Let me explain something to you. How can you PROVE there are protons, neutrons, and electrons?

The law of matter says that ALL matter follows certain laws.

So you are meaning to tell me that this chair I'm sitting in follows laws just that you and I do at a stop-sign?

The law of matter also says that matter reacts. So you mean to tell me that my chair reacts just the same as you and I do when I pinch you?

If you do, then you have to realize, what's keeping all of that together? To say that it's NOT God is just pure ignorance. What's keeping all of this together?

You're easier to evangelize to.

-sigh-

You guys are the best Christians I've ever met. Thank you Podomaht for wanting to pray for me but it isn't necessary because I don't have faith. I don't believe in prayers and I don't see why I should waste your time. I've been undergoing mental abuse from my dad for 6 years now. Home has become a place I want to avoid. I'd rather stay at school than come home but thank God my dad travels a lot.
My mom is the center of my world and she's been through SO much (she's a true Christian) that I wonder why God chooses to let her suffer. How much pain does He want her to endure? Why can't He have a little bit of compassion and let her be? Why does she have to be a scape-goat?

If He's our 'father', why does he let us suffer this much? I can't imagine a father letting his children die in car accidents (knowing before hand that this will happen) and yet do nothing.
It doesn't make sense.

EDIT// Science proves that there are protons, neutrons and electrons. Nothing proves that there is a God.

How does science prove this? How does science prove that the protons, neutrons, electrons moving around in my head are following the same laws as the ones in your head?

Science is based on theory. We learn about Darwinism and evolution, but yet it's still a THEORY. Atheists are not revolting against God intellectually.

They're revolting morally.

God doesn't get bent out of shape in the way that you're assuming. He gets bent out of shape as in he gets sad. The evidence is here. The power of God is here on this planet, and you still do not see.

God won't do anything else for you if you choose to ignore it all.

I haven't taken real science classes for a while but I remember my teacher mumbling something about protons and neutrons. Besides, even if there are no physical evidence, it doesn't matter. At least, we aren't condemned.

Likewise, just because you don't believe doesn't mean you are condemned. It simply means you aren't YET. You have your entire life ahead of you. There's time to change.

I have to say Podo. I really had no idea you were that into this stuff.

But what if I never change? I go to hell. I f**king hope Satan's cute.

I find that most intelligent people understand at one point in their life that God's call is sometimes unbearable. Look at Da Vinci. Mozart, Havel, Boyle, Galileo, Newton, Churchill. One day you will realize there's something bigger than what you can imagine, and although the answers may not all be evident, you will have no choice but to bow down in his utter glory.