By the way, Islam cannot be the final revision to God's word because it directly contradicts the Bible. In the Quran, Jesus is mentioned 93 times. It also states that Jesus was NOT crucified.

In Islam, everyone goes to hell, and everyone pays for their sins. It's basically a let "bygones be bygones" type religion in Islam. Jesus didn't pay for your sins, you do, according to Islam.

wow, i didn't know that. so hell isn't eternal there?

1) It's not that God cannot be necessarily in the presence of sin. It's more that sin cannot be in the presence of God. And yes, God is a spirit. But we don't/cannot understand any language except the language of the world. Anything in which God is personified, it's just anthropomorphism. How many angles can dance on a pin? As many as they want.

2) Hell, in plain man terms, is used to better show and help us understand what Jesus set out to do, and what he did for us. Why is there suffering in Hell? You first must understand that hell was not necessarily for us. We were meant to enjoy our stay in the Garden of Eden, but we know what happens. Since like I mentioned above, if sin cannot be in the presence of God, ( I'll say it like that from now on ) then there is only one place the soul can go.

But I think I've still been avoiding the question. Why? Because God's wrath must go in one place or another. In this case, God's wrath goes to Hell with Satan and his minions, but if you cannot accept Jesus as your savior, you are bound to Hell.

3) How is it just? I don't know. ( I'll try to get back to this later once I read what I wrote earlier.

4) God gave us a mind and conscience so that we could, if we wanted to, find valid reasons before we actually accept Christ. Christ doesn't expect anyone to reason blindly. We are all meant to learn before we do anything.

In Islam, you pay for your sins in Hell, however long that may be.

Allah does not forgive. He sends you to hell.

1) Sin is no match for God, so it cannot be in the presence of God. God doesn't like sending people to Hell, but he is a two-dimensional God. He is just as he is merciful. But sin must be paid through the cross. If you don't accept Jesus as your savior, then you are paying for your own sins.

2) Sin was created for the purpose of glorifying God later on down the road. God uses all things for his greater works.

3) No, God cannot sin. ;)

Lucifer is the only being ( not a man ) who will not be forgiven for his sins.

Now before you say anything about how God is a forgiving God, let me remind you. God's mercy reaches out only to mankind. Spirits not included. ( Sorry, Angels. )

Of course. I was in no way attempting to be like Christ in his love for all. But I realize that in my conquest through spiritual warfare, I realize my weapon and primary tool in it is Christ's love. Indeed I will try to love you all.

1) I agree with you, it does seem strange that we are putting our lives on a translation that could have been translated wrong, but of course, we do go back to the original documents and retranslate everything for accuracy's sake. They have checked up and are relevant to the original Scriptures.

2) Why does God not care? For he so gave his only begotten son...

How was Jesus his begotten son? Doesnt begotten mean related by blood? So doesnt that mean he has to be the father, yet he wasnt?

removed

*koff*.... what the heezy?

most people would kill themselves if god was a girl.

You know what I think? I think the Bible is a metaphor, like everything in it. I don't know how I come up with it but it's like, God being our brains, Jesus being our hearts, and the Holy Spirit being our conscience.

Yes, I'm atheist.
No, I'm not a Catholic anymore.

^x2 Really? I never thought anyone would kill themselves if it ended up being a girl *shrug

I don't see how they could back it up so much to really make it true and believable. Although I know a lot of good bullshitters.

^That's an interesting way of looking at things. *thinks

ok i'm confused. one person said satan pulls us to hell while another person says god sends us to hell. which one is it. and think about it. if we don't want to go to hell it means we ourselves aren't sinners. by wanting to go to hell we are enbracing sin. so by just the one thought of not wanting to go to hell that would mean we would be enbracing jesus/god in some way thus wouldn't we all go to heaven either way?

I think that it was God who created Hell. My brain isn't working right now, so I can't explain. When I do explain it, you're going to be blown away. I promise.

No, let me explain.

God sends you to hell, but Satan also pulls you to hell. Ultimately, only God can have the right to judge you. Satan only tempts you to go to Hell.

Also, let me try to explain the latter part. Nobody wants the consequence, but I can still love sin. Just because I am against Hell, doesn't mean I can still in a sense, be embracing Jesus.

You are willing to give your life to something "relevant"? I think everything loses something in translation. As I stated before english is baby talk compared to other languages, especially languages of old. How do you know the bible was meant to be taken literally? Wouldn't that be crazy if it were just a figurative piece of fiction and you devoted your life to it? Immaculate conception? Are you serious? That's just like witchcraft.

God doesn't care because if it is there it is so beyond us, it's not even describable, so why would it care about us? Its not because it hates us or anything, it is just so great it doesn't have to care

i wait to be blown away.

podomaht. are you sure? think about it. i'm a sinner on earth. i don't want to go to hell, thus i odn't want to be with satan, wouldn't god accept that as a way of embracing god/jesus? deep deep down inside he would know everything about us. so maybe deep deep deep down inside we do believe in god, hell, satan stuff. and he knows that thus we all go to heaven.

Okay, let me put it in an example for you. If I have sex with a girl, and I do NOT use a condom, and if I squirt my juice in her, then obviously she will be pregnant.

But by your analogy, you're saying, since I don't WANT her to be pregnant, even though I did squirt in her, you're saying that she will not be pregnant, just by the power of thought.

Nobody wants that.

Besides, you can't just not want to go to Hell. There has to be an acceptance of Jesus Christ of Nazareth as your Savior. You can't just live a life of sin and then expect to go to Heaven.

I don't beleive thats true.
I beleive in God.
And I beleive that God pumnishes us for a reason.
I mean he specifically tells us [not trying to judge anyone by saying this] that we shouldn't have sex b4 we're married.
Now, look around, there are all types of STD's[nobody's learned yet they just try to work their way around it!]. It makes sense. I'm not sure how to explain hurricane Katrina or serious diseases like west nile all I'm saying is that it seems pretty illogical that God would hurt us if it wasn't needed.
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how is that illogical when u just gave two out of many examples of things there don't seem to be great explanations from god for? god doesn't seem logical at all to me. punishing people for thousands of years because someone ate an apple, even though god knew it would happen and created them with flaw, isn't what i call logical.

man i make too many edits, i need to work on this

There's a saying that goes something like this:

When there's a miracle of some kind, they call it an act of God. When there's a disaster, they call an act of nature.

To paraphrase: Give God credit for our happiness, but blame nature for our grief.

^
YES!
i was just trying to think of that saying

I haven't rly tied it in yet. I don't know what goes on in New Orleans.
I don't know why God would do something like that. Its just as confusing to me as it is to you.

so then u think everyone who died, was hurt, or lost their homes deserved what they got? it ties in and is justifiable by god somehow

I guess that is what I beleive. I mean I'm not just gonna brush it off and say, these thing happen. I mean there has to be a reason for this. Its not fair to the people who suffered I kno. But I'm not gonna be one of those jerks who's motto is "shit happens".

i'm one of those jerks

i think hurricane katrina was just a naturally occurring hurricane. i don't think god sent it to punish anyone. but then i again i don't believe in god so that would explain why i'm one of those jerks

When it comes to hurricane katrina I dont know what to think. To me, its just way 2 epic to say it was nature. I mean some people blame the government. For this case, I dont believe that. Those people need a reality check if they seriously think america is immune to things like hurricane.

huh?
hurricane katrina wasn't that "epic". it was bad, but there's been plenty of natural disasters in the world way worse. just seems like a bad hurricane to me, nothing else.

Shit does happen though. How we all rise to the occasion and helped out these people was amazing. It's true that shit happens, but what we learn from it is the moral of the story.

People can blame nature or question God, but there's no doubt that everyone tried to help each other during these times. I held fundraisers with my group, not for God or for nature, but for people in need. You don't have to have Christ in your heart or anything to help out... just a heart.

I kno that.

So what did you mean?

Also, I do not think there needs to be a reason for everything in life. If we say there must be a reason for something like Katrina, then that'll lead to the blame game of "who's at fault".

I agree though, that people need a reality check if they think America is immune to natural disasters.

Well, if God is so powerful, why didn't he prevent the hurricane from happening? Funny, isn't it? If he's so loving, why did he let people die in it?

i wonder this too. it had to happen because he wanted it to happen, or thought those people deserved what they got. we can't really argue the free will issue here like some of the other things god has let happen,i don't think, since if the hurricane hadn't existed in the first place and we hadn't known about it, there would be no change to our free will.

god being so all powerful could have even lessened the severeness of it. why didn't he though?

Funnily enough, I remember hearing people blame it all on Nature, as if God has no power over it--that's how I stumbled on the saying I quoted earlier. Not sure if they were Christians, but it does it matter if they were?

Perhaps a better way to approach it would have been to say that God have plans for all those who perished. Providence and all.

I mean that i wasn't going to brush it off and be heartless.



Why does everyone who doesn't beleive in God always ask that question? Stop trying to act like you're the smarter one. Christians are just people, we are not GOD! Why don't you ask God that? I don't have all the answers.

the obvious reason is because we can't ask god, we won't get an answer

either way, these questions aren't reserved for only those who don't believe in god. i think they should be asked by everyone. u shouldn't believe something if u have no clue why u believe it. for instance podo, the topic starter, does he really for sure have the answer to these questions? no, he's not god. but he obviously has some kind of answer that he's satisfied with or i don't think he would believe it. we're asking to find out those reasons.

don't accuse someone of "acting like they are the smarter one" just because they want to understand something before they base their entire life on it.

The most ignorant post so far. How the f**k should I ask God? You're the Christian, AREN'T YOU? And who the f**k directed the question personally at you? It was for Podomaht and the others. Stop acting 'pressured' and start acting more mature.

Excuse my foul language, I'm just irritated.

EDIT// I'm acting like the smarter one? Is that a joke or are you being serious? If you are, then that's just plain dumb. This thread is for non believers SEARCHING answers. Why don't you drop the I'm-the-best attitude? It's unbecoming.

Listen I'm sry for being so rude to you in that last comment. I thought you were trying to outsmart and that just pissed me off. So I'm sorry. I'm not trying to fight with you so stop being a bitch.

Edit//
Im sorry about saying you were a bitch too

Haha. It's funny how you apologize and then tell me to stop acting like a bitch.
Well, I am sorry for the foul language, your post seemed to be a typical Christian response. As I am Agnostic, I am truly seeking for answers. Excuse me for asking stupid questions, I am just trying to understand the God issue.

If you can't tolerate some questions, don't respond instead of degrading them.

Edit// Haha, you edited. =P

lol well yeah youre not alone I think I'm still searching for answers 2.I'm tryin to get this whole beleifs thing since I change so much. So I know its rly hard.
I apologize again for my rude behavior.

lack of tolerance for questions = lack of confidence in own faith

just the way it seems when people lash out because someone questions something dealing with their faith in a religion

which is why i have respect for podo making the thread and trying to answer the questions

you're pretty much spot on there.

I'm sorry, but can you stay out of this thread? So far all you've done is give vague answers and then become frustrated when you cannot answer questions to the vague answers you've given.

Please, you've done enough damage as is.

As a Christian this is how I see it.

I will be, shit does happen. God makes decisions for the good of everyone as a whole. When those people died from that hurricane or tsunami it was for the best. It may have been a punishment, it may have just been to keep certain events from taking place of other events, but I don't question it. Everything happens for a reason. God has a master plan. I could never comprehend it, but it's there. He knows all, right?

God killed hundreds or even thousands of people in the bible. Why can't he kill people now? If God killed em, then they deserved to die. Maybe not by our standards but by His. Who am I to judge God's actions? I'm nothing but a speck of dust on this earth that he created, and I won't be alive for even one percent of it's age. Who am I to judge His actions?

I'm not going to sugar coat anything by telling you, "It was an act of nature", when every act of nature is an act of God's creation. Fuck that. No human caused these tsunamis to happen. God didn't use human kind as an instrument. The morals of a human being aren't at question here. God took it into his own hands. He used the raw forces of nature to fuck some shit up. I have no problem with that.

If you believe in God you have to except that there are certain things that you will never understand. You just trust that God did what he did because he loved us. True love is the hardest love. All possible outcomes are taken into consideration when making a decision of true love. Every thing that will be effected (past, present, and future tense) is taken into consideration. Love is the only reason hell exists. Without hell, it wouldn't be possible for us to love.



Um... because they don't believe in God. They aren't looking at it through our eyes, they're looking at it from their own perspective. They ask the questions because they don't understand.

What can you do? Start trying to see things from their perspective, and maybe you won't get so frustrated. if you didn't believe in God, how would you feel about it?

I saw "Troy" movie other day, and one of the characthers said something interesting. He said "Gods save only strong ones". And more I think of it, more I see sense to it. It's so easy to hide behind God, to act in his name....just to hide what we're doing......

All we do is our own doing, all we don't do is our own doing. If it goes wrong, we blame higher power. We never consider that we, or some other person caused whatever the issue is. We are left with free will to do good or bad. And when we mess up big, we have 100 reasons ready in our own defense, and if they don't work, we can blame God.

We ask for God when things are bad, so bad that they are beyond fixing it. And he is there to be blamed, because we don't want to take responsibility for it, or simply blame other person that caused the demage. Nowedays, we have so many excuses for ourselves, for others, but not for God. We never say anything in God defence. Why is that? Because we don't want to listen. We want God to act as one of us, to do or say something concrete. But I guess, it doesn't work that way.

I am Catholic, and I believe without doubt that there is a God. I guess, many will say my belief is blind, and so be it.
But to explain Christiantiy is not the matter of explainign the books or what some man said long ago. Man are not God, and all this interpretation of Christianity is just our opinion and conclusion of somEthing that is so far beyond us. We are guessing about some facts, but not thinking about faith. Christianity is great religion in theory, and many are hiding behind it, without ever doing anyting Christian. To me, my religion is my religion. It's something that gives hope and forgives all flaws we have, no questions asked.
But then again, that is just my humble opinion.....

Understood.

And, I also agree with the fact that many Christians do hide behind the fact of the image of God.

Everything should be involving God. If something bad happens, God is at hand. If something good happens, God is at hand.

The problem is with Christians is that we don't have a Godly world-view. We are in a spiritual war-fare, and yet none of us Christians seem to realize that.

Explain what you mean by that. Specifically the terms "Godly World-View" and "Spiritual War-Fare". Christians tend to thrown those terms out all the time, and they always mean something slightly different.

You guys make it seem so easy but I need logic If only I wasn't so sceptical about everything. Why can't God give us a sign? It'll be so much easier on many people.
Sometimes, I just want to believe that He exists. I even go to church on some occasions. I am a little bit familiar with the bible. I even capitalize my 'G' (God) and sometimes my 'H' (He). I try as much as I can not to blasphem on purpose.

Rather, I'm becoming more and more doubtful. So many things have been happening in my life lately that I feel as though I'm neglected. If He could just make me feel better, only for a little while, I'd be content.

I guess that will never happen.