^ How was I overreacting? I was just trying to get my point across. It's not like I was member bashing or cussing.

^ Well, then excuse me for not being specific.
I meant that a large majority of African countries are worse off than Mexico. There are obviously exceptions, such as Morocco and South Africa... I just didnt feel like listing them all. I'm not talking about Aids - I'm talking about poverty, education, living conditions, government, etc.

Why are you bringing this up again? What, did I offend you or something?

Hmm I belive members can edit posts though no?It dosnt matter anyway lol.

I havent spoken to my father since i told him i was engaged.So it will be a while before i can ask him for online info that he can provide you with.

Or better yet,Move to the county.Youll have a blast

If you can't really back up your statements, then why say it at all? Try google.

Well I've been to Mexico with my family numerous of times. Everyone seemed friendly there, socially speaking at least.

But then again, we speak Spanish. I don't plan on moving to Mexico though :)

I'll do a little research of my own when I have some free time. I know that in Australia if you're American, you have to pee many fees before even purchasing land there. and you have to pay what they tell you to pay. On top of that, they charge a lot more money for land when foreigners are interested. On top of that you cannot stay in their country for more than 6 months. If you do, you'll be imprisoned.

But I'll check it out myself about Mexico's laws.

Are you kidding me? Mexico is way better than Morocco and South Africa when it comes to government, living conditions ... Besides, that's not the point, the fact that you're comparing ONE country to a continent is a little overboard.

We aren't offended, we're just letting you know and she isn't bringing it up again rather she's replying to your post.

Forget about it, shall we? I don't want to argue with you, I like you =)

You're probably right, they are just the ones that stick out in my mind as probably being the most well off in Africa. Once again I apologize for the confusement - I was in a hurry and didnt read what I said before posting it like I usually do.

But that was the second time she's brought it up in the same thread.

I hope so, It's not something I want to argue over either. I already stated in my last post that I made a mistake, and I corrected myself.


I didnt have an attitude - I was amused that you were pointing all that out for the second time in the same thread. I saw what you first posted, so I didnt really see a need for you pointing the same thing out again.

Oh, please do point them out. I still dont see what the big deal is - I corrected my mistake on comparing Africa to a country.

[sorry for the double post]

Yaaay!

I've been extra cranky and irritable for the past few days for some reason. So maybe that's my problem.

But to keep this from being just spam, I wonder what all our country would lose if we didnt give them amnesty, and made most of them leave? Besides the costs of produce and labor (like in the housing industry)?

They all want to go to US. IF we open to everyone then US then who will live in other country? US then will be over populated. I'm 100% aganist illegal immigrant. Live in your own country and make it a better place. On the other hand I also symphatize for hte illegal immigrant because of poverty. There a lot of US born citizen get schooling and only get a diploma and work minimum wage. But the illegal immigrant they try very hard and raise their kid to become doctor etc. THAT IS WHY American complain about unemployment. I'm not saiding the state i just make above is 100% true but it is pretty dam is because through hardship human will push it over their limit. But i still don't support illegal immigrant no matter what. their should be a UN Universal punishment for them.

DON't you grant citizenship if your kid is born in US? I believe this is true. That is what illegal immigrant is aiming for.... SEX!

Illegal immigrants are aiming for sex?

Also, whose complaining about unemployment? The U.S. unemployment is at a very good spot at the moment. Our inflation is doing decent as well. That's not to say that this won't change when the min wage (stupid law) is raised and all the employers are forced to pay their workers more and jack up their prices -.-

Well, i really agree with some of you.

The immigrant issue is really becoming a problem for the united states.

Hey, im all for you coming to this country to give your children and family members a better life, but only when you work hard for that life.

If your coming here to america to critisize the way we do things, go back to your country. Theres a reason you left and if you immigrated here then that must mean we (the united states) have got something your country lacks.

DO NOT come here to sit on your ass all day, get drunk and live off the government (i do know people who have done that) because thats what makes us LEGAL people hate you.

My family came here with very little and 6 people lived in a one bedroom apartment for 4 years. They all now own homes and have good jobs becase they worked like ANIMALS to get what they have.

Dont be a statistic.

That is ridiculous. Why on Earth should someone not be able to criticise a country simply because they are an immigrant?

Oh, and there are plenty of statistics about legal immigrants, or for that matter about 'natural' citizens. So that's a completely empty platitude.

we had this debate a couple years ago.

I'd have to say, that i don't think that the people who are here illegally should be deported, but we should stop those who are trying to get in now, and have not succeeded (sp?) yet.

why?
1)
well what about those who to physical labor? Many illegals have these jobs and if we were to just kick them out, we would have over a million jobs vacant and growing as the years go by. that would be a serious problem
2)
couples that have established families in the United States to where their children were legally born here but the parents aren't. that would rip the family apart, because if they went back to their country, their children would then be illegal.

im simply saying, if your coming here to critisize, or "hate" then just go back to your country we dont really need the negativity.

I've been searching & searching, but I cannot find a topic in Debate pertaining to illegal immigration.

What do you think of illegal immigration/immigrants? How do you think we should solve the issue? Do you believe in deportation, amnesty, or an alternative? Why?

I personally believe that illegal immigrants should not come here, and we need to crack down on employers who hire them. Not just because it is against the law, but to protect illegal immigrants. Many of them are exploited & paid well below the minimum wage. Single illegals (meaning those without family in the US) should be deported. However, those with families should be handled more carefully. I support the passage of the DREAM Act for students who came here without the consent of their parents.

Also, illegal immigrants are a huge strain on our country financially. Although the vast majority are employed, the number of them earning money exceeds the number actually paying taxes. [1]

I think we should deport illegal immigrants, but it should be a carefully planned, gradual process. We should also make the immigration process speedier & more efficient for those wanting to come here legally. Waiting periods for families should be reduced, and skilled workers with families should be given priority in the immigration process. The quota system should also be reworked. By cracking down on employers who use illegal aliens & restructuring the legal immigration system, we can reduce the number of illegal immigrants overall.

Though if a ton of them were deported, wouldn't they just turn right back around and try again (if they're homeland really is that bad)?

Not if we crack down on employers giving them jobs. If there aren't any jobs available to them, then they won't come.

Sounds like that'd take an amazing amount of effort; effort which could possibly be better put elsewhere at the time being, but hey.

I mean, it's not just professional employers (if that's what you meant) that can give these people something to do. Even just regular people passing by, say, Lowes or Home Depot pick these guys up and pay them (sometimes). Pretty much everyone could use/would like somebody to do something for them.

Actually it wouldn't be a very big job if you slapped an enormous punishment on it, so enormous that the deterrence would be enough to discourage it big time.

Oh, so take the Singapore-type approach to it. =P

I believe in deportation. If they wanna come here so badly and make an "honest" pay, they'd do it legally like everyone else. People say they support amnesty or whatever but then they go and complain about the high amounts of unemployed Americans.

I think they need to learn some English and come over here legally. We'd do the same for them if we went to their homeland, right?
We'd learn their native language or at least a little and go over there legally....

The illegals come over here and try and change the America that they want to be in. They try and change it to their standards. WTF?
Why want to come here in the first place if it isn't good enough for them as it is? They need to just leave America alone or conform to the law and come legally with an English vocabulary.

There's already a topic on this...

Ah, okay. I couldn't find it for some reason though. Can you merge the two topics, Steve?
------------------
Back on topic.
The reason we secretly love illegal immigrants is because they keep prices & the cost of living down. If we deported them or gave them a path to amnesty, employers would be forced to raise their wages, meaning that Americans would generally have to pay more. I still think illegal immigrants should be deported, but that we should not fault illegal or American-born children for their parents' actions.

Again, I'm going to emphasize the need to improve our f'ed-up immigration system. We should go back to an Ellis Island-style system, where people are inspected & recieve their documents right on the spot. They don't receive any government services for 5 years, so it's sink or swim. After that, they receive a path to legal residency/citizenship, and there's no issue of whether or not they are legal.

And I disagree with just allowing skilled workers to come in. We obviously have an unskilled workforce willing to perform our jobs, but for now, we need to deport the illegals & rework our system. We need to allow more legal unskilled workers to come & we should give them the resources to help them learn English, American culture, etc. Because if we want cheap but legal labor, this is the way to do it.

Lol yeah I can merge them, I didn't realize this wasn't mine rofl.

Wow, you guys are crappy debaters, no offense.

Have any of you ever even BEEN through the U.S. immigration system? It's extremely fucked up. Getting a visa to come to the U.S. is like winning the lottery. That's partly the reason why people come illegally. Another reason people come here is because they're given jobs. If we crack down on employers who are giving illegals jobs, the problem will (almost) be solved. If there are no jobs, people won't come. However, we should not attack the children of illegals, because they came under their parents' jurisdiction. This is why I support the DREAM Act [1] for illegal alien students.

And yes, I believe English should be the official language. But that doesn't give us a right to ignore other languages altogether. We should require foreign languages starting in elementary school so that we can compete in the global market and repair relations with the world. We also need to repair the ESL education system. Many times, kids are stuck in a classroom with other kids that don't speak their language, and the only person who actually speaks English is the teacher. We need to employ teachers that speak multiple languages so they can help students from all over the world. We also need to help adults learn English so that they can communicate with their children, their children's teachers, etc etc. Being skilled & legal =/= knowing fluent English.

We need to crack down on illegal immigration, I agree, but we cannot break families apart.

K since people are such crappy debaters, I'll give it a shot.

I agree with what you've said about most of the things you've said, but the learning Spanish thing I find ridiculous. English is the business language, of the world. Why should we go out of our way to learn Spanish when the primary necessity to know Spanish goes to people who are employing laborers that work in kitchens and construction. I hate to be stereotypical, but that's where the majority of the illegals work. Also, if they're going to come to our country to learn, we shouldn't have to learn Spanish so we can suit the needs of people who snuck over here illegally. Yes getting a Visa can be hard, so instead of everyone coming over here for a better life, they can start working on their own country. I know they live in oppression, poverty, yadda yadda, w/e. They can still start to make their country better. Their government's bad? Organize a resistance.

You know I think I've already voiced everything and I'm repeating myself right now, but on I go.

Anyways, moving on. Even if they don't notice a change right away, if they keep working at it, and get everyone working at it, their country can become better. It may take several generations, but if they don't do it because of that, it's their selfish fault. People can't just expect their lives to be better all of a sudden.

But anyways, I don't feel it should be the United States' responsibility to police the rest of the world or have to take care of the rest of the world. I mean, for Christ's sake, they hate us. Why should we go out of our way to be nice to people. I've got an isolationists ideas in mind right now, but don't think we should totally isolate ourselves like we've done with exception of war time before WWII. We need to maintain trading relations, and keep trading and push for a profit instead of continually pushing ourselves into debt, but that's a different debate and runs deep in the government and bureaucracy.

Anyways, I feel I'm ranting now, so I'll wait for a response to what I've said to continue

I think you need to keep a more open mind about language learning. I agree that we shouldn't be policing the world, but we need to maintain good relations with other countries. And Spanish isn't just for the illegal immigrants that come here - it is also a powerful business language. As are Chinese & Hindi. In addition, we have second-generation Americans who want to learn their heritage languages. If they already know English, shouldn't we give them the opportunity to learn other languages? I also don't see what is wrong with learning about a new culture & a new language. We need to open our minds & hearts to other places in the world; understanding other cultures is the only way we can achieve peace.

Like it or not, Steven, Spanish is a useful language to know if you're running a construction business or a restaurant. Also, by 2050, the Hispanic population is expected to triple. [1] That's serious money to be made right there. Just because illegals generally work in construction or other low-skilled jobs, doesn't mean they don't have purchasing power or we shouldn't try to be on good terms with them.

I'm not saying that it's useless by any means, nor should learning a second language be ignored. I know enough spanish to get around in nearly any spanish speaking country, and enough to know what the soccer players are saying on the field or what the workers are saying in the back. I know that it's a useful language like Chinese but world-wide, english is the dominant business language. People should focus on becoming better speakers of their own language before they try to master another one.

You've put yourself in a tight spot, bud.
Most illegal immigrants that come to the United States do not have a high school diploma, and their Spanish is usually not proper; so according to your argument here, they should focus on learning better Spanish before learning English!

Nah, didn't put myself in a tight spot. You misinterpreted what I said. That last statement was aimed at native english speakers.

Well, it sure didn't say that.
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with learning two languages at the same time while you're young. In fact, young children have an easier time learning languages, and multilingual children have better language skills overall. Why not promote multilingualism in such a multicultural land?

I don't care as long as they speak English.
But I don't think they should be able to just climb a fence and expect all the rights that other people who worked really hard to get here legally got. That's like slapping the ones who came here legally in the face.

Again, I'm not discouraging it so stop assuming I am. People would be better off being able to speak their language and convey what they're trying to say in an intelligent matter than being able to speak your language okay and be able to half-ass speak another. If you can communicate with your employer during an interview and come off as highly intelligent sounding, it gives you a better chance of being hired. Most jobs you don't have a necessity to speak spanish in.

You've got your views, and I've got mine. You're considerably more liberal in your views (from what I've seen), and I'm highly conservative. It's gonna be hard for us to come to an agreement.

Edit: Anydaynow, please refrain from posting to the original topic when there's a clear discussion going on. Read the last page and join in on the discussion. Thanks :)
(Oh yeah, it says that in the sticky btw, the one titled "READ BEFORE POSTING")

Agreed, we should stop.

BACK TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, PEOPLE.

I think we should shoot illegal immigrants. I just think that if we shot them and they noticed that people who came to American where being shot if they didn't own a green card, we would have less problems in this area. We would also have more jobs :D.

^i'm with you on that one! i hear that what a bunch of native americans are doing on their reservation borders... i'm all about immigration, don't get me wrong! my ancestors were immirants, but they did it the right way! they followed all the legal channels and became CITIZENS... i'm so f**king tired of everyone else in the world thinking that america is the f**king mommy country... "oh well our country went to shit, let's go to america! they'll fix everything..." if we didn't have issues with unemployment, homelessness, education, social security, and poverty, then by all means, let 'em all in... until then, CLOSE THE f**kING BORDERS! TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN BEFORE YOU TRY TO TAKE CARE OF EVERYBODY ELSE! besides, bush and kennedy are only pro-amnesty because if they let all the illegals become citizens, who do you think they're gonna vote for? SELFISH BASTARDS ARE TEARING THIS COUNTRY APART!

Its just wrong, and is becoming probably the largest issue in America today. There's a problem when its expected that Mexicans [not hispanics in general] will make up 50% of the Californian population by 2012. You also have a large group of Illegals who refuse to learn english, which I find to be extremely disrespectful. If I were even going to visit another country that didnt speak my language, I would learn enough to get by. Its also a problem when you're demanding rights, but you werent even supposed to be here in the first place. The effects of this overflow of people are horrible. A slow economy, predatory loans, overcrowding, etc. If you want to immigrate, you should go through the proper protocols and it would be much easier for you to gain rights.

Sorry, haven't been keeping up with my world affairs, but it's an issue that gets pushed to the backburner here in the UK and like a couple of the people who have posted here, I could justifiably be accused of racism against my own kind, for saying illegal Chinese immigrants should be deported.

That's not to show lack of empathy with their plight, or that of any other illegal immigrant, but why should I show sympathy if they can't show a little understanding of what their presence in our country (UK or US) means to us?

It would seem education is the basis for reaching any sort of understanding, since we clearly realise the full consequence of their being in our country, positive (taking the jobs nobody else wants) and negative (healthcare, taxes etc etc) but obviously all they see is the light at the end of the tunnel with no consideration for the source of that light (just to go with the analogy).

I'm Conservative so I'm pretty much bound to have these views, but I just don't see why a desperate situation back home, gives anyone the right to run away from it and invade someone elses. And I'm also glad that all (US & UK) laws have been amended to cater for the deportation of illegal immigrants despite having given birth to a child on foreign soil. And yet in the UK at least, there is still a catastrophic failure to properly implement these laws - the number of illegal Chinese immigrants ripping off our welfare system makes me pretty angry and only reiterates my belief that laissez faire is the way forward - if you want something, work for it. Just like everyone else.

i agree wholeheartedly... i spent a semester in spain my junior year and i was constantly berated by the spanish that i didn't speak enough of their language... i knew enough to make it by, but they were still a little put off that i had to use alot of english...

if you're going to invade someone's country, at least have the common decency to try to blend in... of course you don't have civil rights... maybe if you spoke some english you might understand the constitution...

QUOTE

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

that means we take care of america and americans... not every f**king minority sick of their own country... i'm so f**king tired of illegals raping this country and making a mockery of it's laws... they're ALREADY criminals for crossing the border in the first place... i'm supposing that people don't know what the word illegal means...

QUOTE

illegal

adjective
prohibited by law or by official or accepted rules

you don't speak english... here you go!

QUOTE

Arabic: غَيْر قانوني، غَيْر شَرْعي
Chinese (Simplified): 非法的，违法的，不合规定的
Chinese (Traditional): 非法的，違法的
Czech: zakázaný
Danish: ulovlig; strafbar; illegal
Dutch: onwettig
Estonian: seadusevastane
Finnish: laiton
French: illégal
German: ungesetzlich
Greek: παράνομος
Hungarian: törvénytelen, illegális
Icelandic: ólöglegur
Indonesian: hukum
Italian: illegale
Japanese: 不法の
Korean: 불법의
Latvian: nelikumīgs; pretlikumīgs; nelegāls
Lithuanian: neteisėtas, nelegalus
Norwegian: ulovlig, illegal, lovstridig
Polish: nielegalny
Portuguese (Brazil): ilegal
Portuguese (Portugal): ilegal
Romanian: ile­gal
Russian: противозаконный
Slovak: zakázaný, nezákonný
Slovenian: nezakonit
Spanish: ilegal
Swedish: illegal, olaglig
Turkish: kanuna aykırı

you don't want to assimilate? you don't want to speak english? you want a green card so bad? you want to carry your mexican flag while protesting for american rights... you f**king love mexico so much, GO BACK YOU f**kING SPICKS! WE DON'T WANT YOU! WE DON'T NEED YOU! GET THE f**k OUT OF MY COUNTRY OR STOP BITCHING!

p.s. that goes for ALL the illegal immigrants... i realize that the mexican invasion is the forefront of the illegals debate, but there are also a mass amount of jamaicans, brazilians, bulgarians, and hatians invading as well... so don't feel bad mexicans, i'm picking on the others too

I think we should patrol the boarder with apache helicopters armed with 0.50 caliber machine guns. If we see one of those fuckers crossing the line we should gun them down. Evenually we'll paint the boarder red with the blood of civilians. Then we can tell people not to cross the red line. Maybe someday we'll see it from space.

I CAME TO AMERICA LEGALLY!!!!
^_______________^

AND YOU SHOULD TOO you stupid ppl who wont even try to intergrate into american society by learning the language....

11-30-2009 Las Vegas, NV These Illegal Mexicans are stealing anything they can get there hands on. They have invaded the U.S. Border for the last 30 years and expect freebies or any kind from the United States. They have stolen any thing they can, Including Social Security Numbers, Education, Medical treatments from Hospitals They are also cowards. Why don't they go back to Mexico and fight the Drug Wars? They have perfected the art of fogery, fraud, Identy Theft. They are to stupid or lazy to learn English, So the Government has catered to them in many forms. Including sending out sample voting ballets printed in Spainish. If they don't speak English they shouldn't be in the United States. They cost the local County Hospital, 24 MILLION a year in free cancer treatments. These Mexicans at estamated total of about 80, get free Medical in Clark County without a thought that Nevada taxpayers are footing the bill.
They sell tomalies door to door, without a Clark County Health Card or Bussiness License, so they don't pay a State Sales Tax, they sell bottled water on the Strip with no Health Card, or Bussines License. They hang out in front of Home Depot, Star Nursery, U-Haul truck rental looking for day labor, No Social Security or Medicare is paid by these ILLEGAL MEXICANS, they are illegal just by being in the United States, and break any law they want, if they get caught they get deported and will be back in about a week. It's time the United States got really serious about DEPORTING ALL THE MEXICANS. The average American Citizen should not have to support these people, and hand out freebies, such as Food Stamps, TANF, Education, Welfare, Medical Treatments, to a group of people who Clearlily ILLEGAL, for every One Dollar the Mexicans are paying into the System, they take out THREE DOLLARS. Enough is Enough Mexicans go Home.

^ racist much?

Deservedly so those wet ones are only good for mowing lawns and cooking in chinese kitchens.

I don't care where the hell they come from, whatever motive they have, I just want them to pay their taxes like how I pay mine as a immigrant who has citizenship.

People think they get benefits when they start becoming documented. No, THE GOVERNMENT TAKE TAXES FROM THEIR INCOME.

Don't you get it???? And if they get citizenship, they get taxed, maybe, just maybe it will help a little fraction of our deficit. A little is better than nothing.

Just imagine how many people will start getting taxed once they're documented.

And when they're legal, I want to make sure they are getting taxed. Everyone of them.

I'm discusted with our federal gov't and the way they're handling Arizona at the moment. I can't blame Arizona for enforcing federal law with their police force. We have similar problems in upstate New York because Illegals come in to work for the horse track in Saratoga durring the summer months. Illegals often commit rediculous crimes. These are crimes that would not have been commited had they been deported in the first place. Companies that hire illegals should be advertised as such if proper procedures aren't taken durring the hiring process.

they took our jobs

They didn't take your jobs honey, the companies hired them over you because they're cheap.