I think it's fun when people think for God. What seems logic to humans might not be the same for God. To me, it's impossible to know.

^ Hence the Theist vs. Atheist debate.

You can't hear, see, smell, feel or taste God. All you can do is interpret what He is and what He thinks. So is He real or completely an interpretation of the human mind? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

(But that's a whole different discussion.)

How can you interprete something you can't feel nor touch nor smell ... ? Fine, we're digressing.

Reading the Bible.

Oh, the book that bored people wrote years years ago? Right, that.

Yeah.



This one.

I actually feel like reading the Bible.

I'm not kidding! WHO PRAYED FOR ME? WHO DID???? I'm scared.

WTF? I'm not kidding. Off I go.

^ In revised editions of the Bible, it's been changed to "You shall not murder".

But even if it said "Thou shalt not kill", God already gave Man permission to kill and eat animals.

Deuteronomy 14:5-14:6

"These are animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep. You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud."

And 14:21

"Do you not eat anything you find already dead."

So pretty much, it says right there that you have to kill the animals you eat.

Of course the Bible is full of contradictions like that, and we'll always null the one that's less convenient for us...

No.
I wouldnt think so.

Uh you're taking the verses totally out of context.

Those were laws for the Jews and foreigners in Israel or whereever they might have been in the wilderness. Eating any animal not stated above ^ was making them "unclean" and "unholy" that they were not aloud to be in the presence of God until they went into purification ceremonies and waited the alotted time to become "cerimonially clean."

They weren't aloud to eat animals they already found dead because the person who found the animal wouldn't know how it died. If they didn't know how it died, they wouldn't know if they were cermonially clean.
-If an animal was killed by another animal it was unclean
-If it died a natural death it was unclean
&& so forth.

This was before Jesus came back and state to Peter

Acts 10:9-15

9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

Since Jesus came and had made us forever "cerimonially clean" we could eat whatever.

Here's some more info:

"THE ATHEIST'S COMPLAINT:
What kind of animals may we eat? Some texts say none at all (Genesis 1:29; Proverbs 23:20; Isaiah 7:14-15; Daniel 1:8; Romans 14:21; 1 Corinthians 8:13), other Bible texts say only certain animals (Deuteronomy 14:7-8; Leviticus 11:2-4), but some say we can eat any animals (Genesis 9:3; Acts 10:9-13; 1 Corinthians 10:25; Romans 14:2, 14; 1 Timothy 4:1-3). Is there a contradiction?

RESPONSE:
The answer to the questioner's inquiry depends upon what time you are living in. Prior to the flood (Genesis 1:29), men were given plantlife to eat, not meat. However, after the flood (Genesis 9:3), men were permitted to eat meats, with no restrictions given. Such was the case until the time of Moses, when the Lord gave His law for Israel. In this law, the eating of meats was still permitted, but restrictions were imposed (Deuteronomy 14:7-8; Leviticus 11:2-4). This would be the case until the time of Christ, when the new covenant given through Christ was given. Under this law, God again gave freedom for His people to eat any meat (Acts 10:9-13; 1 Corinthians 10:25; Romans 14:2, 14; 1 Timothy 4:1-3). We today are under this law, wherein we have the freedom to eat whatever meat we desire to. It is not contradictory for there to be different instructions for different time periods. One might question why it is so, but certainly, a contradiction is not present.

Of the verses listed above which have not yet been referred to, only a brief explanation should clear up any misapplications. Proverbs 23:20 does not speak against eating meat entirely, but those who are "gluttonous eaters of meat." Isaiah 7:14-15 says nothing against eating meat, but simply speaks of the Lord eating of curds and honey. Take a look in the gospels, you'll see the Lord eating meat. Daniel 1:8 does not speak against eating meat, but tells us that Daniel did not take of the king's delicacies. Is it not possible that Daniel's vegetable diet was because the king ate the types of meat which the Jews were not permitted to eat? Paul's statements in Romans 14:21 and 1 Corinthians 8:13 are not outright exclusions of meat eating, but conditional statements. If my eating meat will violate the conscience of a fellow Christian, then I ought not do so. In context, Paul speaks of meats offered to idols and the difficulty some Jews had with leaving the restrictions of Moses' law behind.

There is no contradiction."

I guess this is off subject so i'll go back to the suicide thing.

Okay, well if I may go more indepth with what I meant was that I guess maybe the term "suicide" should be defined because there are people who will give birth to their children even though they may die, they are going into the situation know full well that they have a good chance to die, so is this suicide?

I'd say it's the motive of the heart.

"Define heaven" .. well good point.

IMO.. firstly they shouldn't go to "heaven", they've made a choice to kill themself, and as someone else said, it's just like they're spitting in Gods face, not embracing the fact that they were given life for a reason

The other side.. People sometimes do stupid things when they're sad, angry, frustrated. Everyone deserves a chance to be forgiven.

Assumptions, really. What of those metally disabled people who commit suicide? It isn't their fault. So they're automatically condemned to the devil's den? Why didn't God save them since he has extraordinary powers?

again i think it ultimately deals with the motive of the heart.
like about a kid who finds mommy and daddys gun and accidently kills themself, they didn't do it on purpose.

but i think if it was a Christian and wanted to be with God or something so they killed themself, I think they would have been disobeying God because they weren't being the "light of the world" or "salt of the earth" like He calls us to be.

I agree. But wouldnt you think that anyone who would go to the point of killing themselves is mentally unstable, or at least in a altered state of mind? Alot of people who kill themselves wouldnt normally go to that extreme. They just become so depressed and overwhelmed.

"Why didnt God save them since he has extraordinary powers?"
That's what I'm wondering. But what about the millions of people dying in Africa from aids, or children dying of cancer? Or babies being aborted? It doesnt seem like God's taking care of any of that either.

^ That is what I find so contracdicting about this God issue. Why are there priviledged people and born-to-live and die-poor people? Why did God choose? Isn't that a form of discrimination?
What of those poor babies who are born with physical disorders? Why would He do that to innocent kids? Finally, he doesn't love everyone as much as Christians think He does.

I hope someone doesn't pray for me :[

The Bible is boring and confusing as shit.

I don't understand how you came to your last statement, well here you go: (I think the second applies most below)

I dont think its contradicting, I mean everyone is different and does different things, and will suffer the consequences for it. I don't think I should be punished the same for everyone else's sins, but only my own, which of course we all have really broken all the rules that God has laid out (i'll explain if you want me to).

Ultimately, the Lord has a purpose for all the things He has created, no matter how large or insignificant.

"First, we know there are some good purposes for evil. God often makes us aware of greater evils, that could arise by using lesser evils as warning signs. For example, the pain of a toothache warns us of a cavity. If not taken care of, it oculd require a root canal or other dental surgery (ouch!). Pain is often necessary to keep us from destroying ourselves. The first time we were burnt with a hot kitchen pan or an automobile engine was not fun, but it made us aware of the need to avoid hot materials. If we didn't learn, there could be even more severe consequences that could result in the form of losing life or limb.

Second, we may not know the purpose God has for evil, but that doesn't mean there is none. It is unreasonable to assume that God has no good reason for evil just because we are unaware of it...

Third, God allows evil in order to ultimately defeat evil. Jesus' death on the cross is a good example...... God permitted an evil injustice (Christ's death) to occur to one person (Jesus) in order to accomplish mercy for many *humankind).

God has good purpose for the evil that we may encounter even though we don't understand it."

-TruthQuest Living Loud Defending Your Faith

Personally, I have a mentally disabled cousin. He is such a blessing and God can use them in many ways that we (me and you) may not understand. He can place thoughts in that persons mind to speak aloud even though the person speaking does it know what they are saying or not understand fully like we do, they can minister to other people's hearts.

Deaths in families can often bring a close family member to realization.

There are so many other examples if you want more.




I think the first and third above ^ apply.

^ Wow.


I dont think God interfears with our daily lives... he isnt just some puppet up there pulling strings.

Exactly. I really dont think God cares what goes on in our daily lives. Not that he doesnt care about us, he just doesnt alter things.

It really bothers me to think of how alot of Christians think God loves them more than someone who isnt "saved". How can someone be so ignorant? I know people who think when a prayer isnt answered, its "because it wasnt meant to be"... or "you didnt pray hard enough". So that's why he lets so many people suffer? And why he doesnt stop the millions of abortions from happening?

Sorry, I got a little off-topic.

I totally understand how the whole
"you didn't pray hard enough" is totally incorrect.



Well God can't answer every prayer. Just imagine how many people would win the lottery if that were true.

God's supposedly all powerful and all knowing, so why doesnt he? It cant be because they're are too many prayers to answer. And I'm not talking about crap like winning the lottery or a basketball game. I'm talking about life and death issues... non materialistic prayers.

So why would God answer one person's prayer, and not anothers? Even if they were for the same kind of thing? God must be playing favorites.

So God chooses? That's what you mean. He chooses, he does eenie meenie manie moo. Great, nice to know.

God also chooses those who are mentally disabled to 'bless' the priviledged. Dandy.

Why can't everyone win the lottery if God is THAT good? Why won't he want those who pray to be happy?
Why are there rich unbelievers and extremely poor christians? How about Africa? Why did God choose to ruin that country? Why are there so many poor countries? Why were people born blind? Why do people starve to death?

WHAT IS GOD DOING TO THE SO CALLED PEOPLE HE 'loves'?

God is a f**kin sadist. He loves to watch people suffer.


And what is this "heaven"? IS it even real. I want proof.

^ You have to die to get some proof.

Ahaha. See, you could either think God is a sadist or just don't believe in him. If God exists, I hate him with a burning passion. If he doesn't, I'm free of worries.

And proof? Jeez, if only Christians could give us something to work with rather than pulling stupid interpretations out of their asses.

Hey, you can't prove there is a Heaven. That's why it's called faith. It's something to believe in. I'm not saying you should follow it blindly. It's not for everyone. If you don't want any part of it, then stop attacking it. It's not going to help your situation.

Well, do people who commit harakiri go to heaven?

I think you should go try it.





I have no idea.

1. no you don't go to heaven if you commit suicide...because u cannot ask the Lord for forgivness of the sin...and committing suicide is a sin.

2. for those who say God doesn't exist i have a point for u...if something/someone doesnt existing it doesnt have a name, does it? so if God doesn't exist who created the term "God"? if no gods exist who creted the term "demigods"? come on people, have faith that there is more to the existence than yourself and your trials/tribulations.

sherlock holmes doesn't exist but he still has a name
what does having a name have to do with anything
people make up names all the time

NO, because according to the Bible you can not murder. and if you murder yourself, you have gone against God and don't have a chance to redeem yourself.

But I'm sure depending on the circumstance, like a mentally ill person, God would be fair.

Including serious, deep depression?

^Yeah, probably
In my humble opinion God is completely fair all the time, so I believe He wouldn't toss someone in hell for having a problem with their brain chemistry.

Yes agreed.. ^^

thankk you

Sooo the only reason you believe in Gods existence is because someone threw out the name God?

u missed the point...the point was that we all should be selfless enough to accept the possibility/fact that there is more to the world/universe than us.

u missed the point of her question
ur ignoring that u first told us that something that doesnt exist can't have a name, and that that is enough reason to believe in something

that isn't what i said...i said that if any object/person didn't exist it wouldnt have a name, but i never ever said that because it has a name you should believe that it is so...thats ur interpretation based on your background, but i digress. i added it as a side point based on what others said, hence the number 2

^Lets get this straight about this whole name thing

Objects DO NOT need a name to exist; for example an undiscovered herb deep in the jungle. its there, but has no name

Objects that DONT exist, CAN have a name.; for example an imaginary friend. Doesn't exist, but has a name

back to the topic please?

Yeah they all go to the Retards Heaven.

Well commiting suicide is killing someone (duh). Therefore, you go against the 10 commandments etc. etc. In other words, you go to hell.

I think it's no different from murder, and it's harder on your loved ones. When someone is murdered by another person, the family that person left has someone to blame and someone to punish, to take their anger and despair out onto. When you commit suicide, it's your fault, therefore your family and loved ones have no one to blame. Sometimes they even blame themselves. It's incredibly selfish, and not to mention stupid.

First of all... Like I said, initially, suicide is self murder. The Bible never says anywhere that if you commit suicide, you cannot enter into Heaven. Also, God allows murderers into Heaven, so, why wouldn't He allow some one who murdered their own selves into Heaven?

Secondly, look at how many gods there are. Are all of them real? Do all of them have names? So, you tell me how your statement makes sense.



I think that people take things too literally. Yes, if you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, then you should follow the Ten Commandments, but you have to realize we are humans. Humans make mistakes, therefore it is impossible to follow the Ten Commandments 100 percent correctly. If you read the Bible, it states that all sins expect for blasphemy and homosexuality are pretty much all the same to him. So, if you lied to some one, God sees that equivalently to stealing. Yeah, murder is a little more drastic than stealing or lying, but to God, a sin is a sin, except for those two previously mentioned. So, a person who steals has no chance of entering into Heaven, if this is the case.

So, there's a solution. Salvation. Whenever people think of Christianity, they tend to think about Catholicism. From what I heard, and read at least, Catholics believe that you get to Heaven by your works. If this was the case then everyone would be doomed. Even the
"saints". Everyone has problems with sin. Salvation is actually through Jesus Christ. If you believe that He died for your sins and was risen three days later...you technically are saved from damnation. I know it doesn't seem like much, and it takes alot more than that, but it's through faith, and not works that people are saved from going to Hell.

No one really knows.

Exactly. That's the point.

My brother made a great point to me about me losing my faith.

'If we believed in everything our feeling wanted then love would be a magical fairy tale and truth would change by the minute.'

Faith is not just a spiritual thing. Everyone has faith. You trust your brakes will work in your car when you get in it. Right? Same idea.

I don't understand how people can argue with logic.

God sent Jesus to die for our sins so that we could be forgiven. Instead of sacrificing, Christians now call upon the Lord to forgive them of their sins. Murder is a sin. Suicide is self-murder. Therefore a sin. God sees all sins, besides homosexuality and blasphemy, equally. Therefore suicide is forgivable. That's the bottom line. There's no arguing it.

Agreed, that's why I haven't been arguing...

It's pointless. This can only go one way. It's unfortunate for those that believe in the Catholic religion and have lost a loved one to suicide, but as much as they might want to see a way around it; they can't; it's futile to argue; the answer is in black and white.

^ I disagree

It is mentioned many times in the bible that suicide is a sin and you will go to hell for it. Think of your body as a temple, a temple for the living god. Who are you to desecrate, mutilate, or destroy that temple? God does not want those who couldnt pass his test, the test of life. Whoever commits this mortal sin will feel the pain from the lake of fire, and hopefully will fall to the very center of Hell, where all are worthy of the suffering they will feel. The same goes for those who cut themselves and mutilate their bodies with piercings and tattoos(Jake). Your body is a temple, treat it accordingly.

In order to be accepted into heaven, your soul needs to be cleansed of all sin. I live my life the best I can without sin, but occasionally I slip as we all do. When this happens, I repent immediately and punish myself till God tells me I am pure again. You cannot be accepted into paradise if you have sin on your soul. Suicide is a sin, and if you are succesful, the last sin you will ever do. It is alone in being the only sin for which you can never be forgiven. You can be forgiven of murder, but not suicide.

Amen Brother!!!!

Then what about murderers? They desicrated a temple of God at some point. Should they not be allowed into Heaven?

^ Yes, but if you murder someone, you are still ALIVE and have a chance to ask God for forgiveness.

If you kill yourself, you don't have time to ask for forgiveness after you commit the sin because you ARE DEAD.

God is suppose to be forgiving, a forgiving god, who allowed his son to die for the sake of others.
If this is true, why would I have to live in fear of his anger and go to hell, because I couldnt handle life and wanted to live in a better place?
God is a supreme being. Supreme beings should understand how fragile their creations are, and by being a forgiving god, understand and accept them.
Heaven is an ideal place, were if your good enough your allowed to visit
Hell is a scare tactic so man will live by someone else's rules

Yet, what I find so strange though, is the fact that a large amount of Christains dont even follow the Bible 100% anymore. They perform sins, and still beleive they are going to heaven just because they are good people, and also because they are a christain. This said, even if a person kills themselves, they still believe they are going to heaven, even if they performed a sin.

Like the person said above me...God is forgiving. The thing is that asking forgiveness is not what gets you into Heaven. What gets you into Heaven is having a relationship with Jesus. If, by the Protestant worldview, you are saved, then you can never lose your salvation. Therefore, no matter what you do, you are always saved. Always a Christian. It's up to the person whether they want to follow the religion 100%. Don't blame the religion for that, because it happens in every religion. People are naturally bad, and will sin. It's human nature.

That's why people who commit suicide go to Heaven.