how can you use the bible to prove something is wrong to someone who doesn't believe the bible?

its not for us to decide what's wrong anyway.

It may not be right for us to decide what's wrong for other people, but it's right for us to decide what's right for ourselves. If things in society concerns our lives, we have a right to make a decision that will concern those things.

General FYI
<-- non-believer, my decision has nothing to do with the Bible.

Hm. I have tend to have a way of making homosexual remarks about things .. like "that's gay" or like, just worse things occasionally, like having to do with a dick up someone's ass.

But I don't mean to offend anybody. I just tend to say things before thinking, and the things I say are constantly said around where I'm from, so its instilled into my head. So please, if I ever do say anything like that, don't take it personally. <3

As for the topic, I think that there's nothing wrong with them. Hell, they were made that way. Let them do whatever the hell they want to. It's their life, it's their choice. Whatever makes them happy.

And whoever says it's a sin, well ... I bet they sin, as well. I know I do, and I follow God with my whole being. It doesn't mean I live by the book.

I steal, I smoke up occasionally, I drink, I cuss, I do a whole bunch of shit I shouldn't.

So if it's a sin, then they're not technically any worse in Gods eyes than any of us are.

MMFCL

I'm a catholic. Here's the section of the catholic cathecism dealing with homosexuals:



Catholics are asked to respect and be compassionate to homosexuals, even though their behavior is deemed disorderly.

It is not the same thing. Homosexuality is one issue. They were talking about more than one issue and only reading in the old testament about stonging and such when if they were to ocntinue reading into the new testament it say that we are now under the new church, christ. And that that owuldn't be happening anymore because Christ now died for our sins so that we would have to have those things done.

I dont think anything is wrong with homosexuality. but it is a sin...but its just two people loving each other who jus happens to be the same gender. i dont see how thats a sin...i dont reall know what im talking about...

i really dont get why homosexuality is deemed 'wrong' by many. how in the world is it wrong? if were gonna go that route, then how about those who think its wrong? why arent straight people deemed 'wrong'? so homosexuals cant have babies, so what? the adoption agency loves homosexuals. why cant we all?

As I have said: As in the case of beauty, rightness and wrongness in the sense of morality (and religion), is in the eye of the beholder.

What's right to you may not be right for others. How can you expect to have everyone agree on one side of a controversy?

I do not have anything against homosexuality, but the act of sodomy and the pressing of legalizing gay marriages do bother me. I see them as morally corrupted things, and I understand that others do not feel the same way.

Can you accept incestry? Can you accept relationships between students and teachers?

Look at it this way.

People have rights.
Colored people are people.
Homosexual people are also people.
Colored people now have rights.
Shouldn't homosexual people also have rights?

I don't like them. I don't want anything to do with them. Many people don't like them. Many despise them. But, regardless of whether you like them or not, let them live their lives as they please. Shouldn't they have rights too?

Geez, people seem to ignore my arguement on purpose.

Incest couples are people, students and teachers are people, why can't they have the same rights that straight and homosexuals have?

Okay, so you're saying thing's changed. Views changed. Who's to say it's not the same for homosexuality, huh? I'll refer you to a later book of the Bible, which was definitely the last word on the subject:

So you're telling me, this final word from God, after he died and was rose up and again (you know the story), EVERY single woman who wears a little bit of makeup, speaks for herself instead of her husband, decides to take charge of her own life... is a cold-hearted sinner?

Do you use makeup? Do you wait at your father's or your boyfriend's feet?

This goes back to an argument that, you know what? Everyone's a sinner. If you're not gay, you lied or even cheated on your 3rd grade math test. And don't tell me it's not the same, because you know what? All sins are equal in God's eyes, and yes, that IS in the Bible. No one's a perfect person, and really, if we went EXACTLY by what the Bible said, word for word, NO one would go into heaven. So, it's by his grace, right? Okay. Who are you, or any human being, to judge what falls under his grace and what doesn't?

I don't know where you got any of that out of what I said. If you were to read my other posts about homosexuality I said it is the same sin as anything else because all sin is equally in God's eyes.





No if Jesus Christ did not die on the cross then none of us would get into heaven.

And no i don't wear makeup, i don't have a boyfriend right now and yes i do obey and honor to my father because he is my parent and i am to honor him.

Views about homosexuality according to the bible have not changed from leviticus to romans that it is a sexual sin. The person that i had first quoted said that if we were to go right form the bible everyone would be stoned and what not. I am saying that before Christ came the punishment from sin was death, but when Christ came and died for us he paid for all of our sins so that we would not have to pay for our sins, therefore there woulod be no more sacrfices and stoning.


I am not saying what i feel about homosexuality just from judging it myself, i am getting these views from God and from his Word.

I don't know how you got all of what you are saying out of that.

i really think they are born with the homosexual tendencies. i think i liked guys when i was like 4. i think then people from their morals choose whether they would stick with it or not. i really cant help feeling for both guys and girls. i really cant..its something inside i know i can not change.

being homosexual might be a sin, but i dont think to love someone is a sin. dont we have the right to pursue our happiness? im not Jewish, Christian, or Catholic, but i respect their views very much. accept the view on homosexuality. i think that God loves everyone of us, and so Jesus gave us another chance to cleanse us in God's eyes. but i dont know really if to love someone in the same gender is really a sin, that's why i believe in soulmates. i cant say the Bible is wrong, but it speaks metaphorically. how do we know we are even interpreting it the correct way? im not really sure. and you cant really imply the same religious laws to other people because they do have different religions. so im really not sure..almost every religion believes in this universal being except for some others like Hindus who believe in multiple Gods. i dont think anyone knows for sure what is false and what is right. only when we die we can only know the truth if everything we say about God or other suspicions are indeed true.

right now, im not judgemental on anything. i respect what everyone has to say and i am open. but i dont think anyone who is on the Earth can truly prove anything. i really think people should respect the rights of others AS humans and nothing else. we all have the right to freedom, life, religion, and the pursuit of happiness. i dont think anyone else has the power to take that away. think about it

I'm Catholic, but I'm the type of person who doesn't believe in everything one Religion or one group of people says. You should always listen to what people have to say, and figure out for yourself what you find is right.

Yes, I'm Catholic and I'm bisexual. I'm pretty religious, but you shouldn't deny someone from loving another person so much--even if they are of the same sex. If you cannot help but loving that person so much that you want to live the rest of your life with them, then why not?

Back to what Mini said, you really cannot change what kind of person you desire to Love. It's like having a preference for a specific race or a specific body type. It's something you feel inside that you can't change.

But the point is--we're all human and we all deserve rights no matter what kind of preferences we have. That's just my opinion..

I think along the same lines as you, illmizzkim

I agree, averyone IS close-minded at one point, but chew on this... if the majority was homosexual and it was accepted by the majority, would you feel the same way?

...and can accept anything out of the ordinary...

So, you are against it because it is 'out of the ordinary'? THAT is being close-minded.

I think its perfectly OK to like the same sex, i support it. But what really gets me is when my sister thinks i am homosexual because i support it. I mean, i m not descriminating, i just want her to understand...

Did that make sense? I hope.

I would still feel the same way. If I deem something is immoral, I won't change my mind simply because of what other people say. That may be the case for some people who can't hold to their opinions, but rest assured that I can hold my own.


Okay, can you accept incest? How about a teacher f**king a student? Gee, answer those and then come back to me about "out of ordinary" things.


I don't discriminate homosexuality, I discriminate homosexual marriages. There is a topic on "gay marriages" where someone (and my Mom) did changed my mind with a simple "how would you like it if it were you?" question, instead of the usual hypocrisy.

I'm not going to bother reading the previous posts because I dont intend on arguing this much.. but all the arguments here and all the controversy are because of cultural and society prejudices

Aside from religion or upbringing, I dont see why there should be this controversy

LET PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO!!! sheeeez. People can't help the way they feel.. telling them that they're wrong for liking a person is like telling a black man he's wrong for being african. they can't help it. grrrrrrrrr.

GOD GAVE US ALL FREE WILL!!!! GRAAAR

I agree with this one!

I agreee

im sorry but that is sooo bogus. being homosexual and being a certain race are two totally different things. people may not be able to help what they feel, but they can control whether they yield and give into those feelings or not. as for being a certain race, people cant choose what ethnicity their parents are. we cant choose is we want to be black white etc etc

and for the record, i also think that homosexuality is morally wrong..

And why is that?

What part of your morals does it clash with?

because i am a Christian and do follow God's word(the bible) and as its been stated, we're told not to practice homosexuality

There. Like I said.. the onli reason there is this controversy is purely because of religious beliefs and upbringing

well then so be it..people arent just guna drop their beliefs, opinions, and morals just to prevent controversy

... I realize that nothing is going to change millenia of religious beliefs..

I'm simply emphasizing how ridiculous it is that people prejudice others because of these beliefs.. how steadfastly they clinge to them and how reluctant people are to change..

UH. okay. so just because more of the population is straight.. that's right.

here imagine this. k?

You like someone. You really like someone. I think you're a guy? So.. You really like this girl. That is sooooo wrong in your little world. You can only like someone of the same gender. But no, you aren't allowed to love anyone because it is morally WRONG in your world. So, you must stay alone all of your life to please the people around you. SUCKS TO BE YOU EH?

OR.. you would marry another guy and have NO feelings for them the whole time and your life would be empty. sounds fuun/

god go in their shoes for once. you people bother me.

Lets "imagine" something more realistic "okay"?

Why would it be wrong for a girl and boy to like each other? Did your parents or anyone else's parents ever tell you that it's wrong for a boy/man and girl/woman to like each other? No. Thank you very much.

If you're going to make examples, make up something more valid than that.

In our world, sodomy IS morally wrong, but people are accepting it more and more. I agree that one should imagine it to be their life and sympathize with them, but I wouldn't make unrealistic examples like that to convince anyone.


Who says you have to marry anyone? There are people who remain unmarried their whole life. Are you trying to make fun of people who chose not to have a sexual/"life" partner?



And your kind of people bother the hell out of me. Since you're entitled to your OPINION, the rest of us are also, right? You believe in freedom, and so do we! Grow up!

Haha I love this debate.. it seems very passionate.. you tell them uninspiredfae!

HAHAHA, you see it too? I can't believe how people can commit such hypocrisy and expect the world to accept their stupid reasoning.

All I ask is that people talk/debate/discuss without using words like "gross" or calling other people "close minded", because there isn't really such a thing in THIS certain debate. Right or wrong is once more, a perspective, not fact nor anything credible.

Anyway, your reasoning is right. It is silly for people, like me, to judge simply because my first reaction to it is: "ew, ew". I did discussed it with my Mom, and she convinced me to really look at the situation before forming an opinion. So I guess, even in homosexuality, there are exceptions (and you know that I'm a firm believer in exceptions to every problem).

Haha yup.. this is more of a debate of cultural upbringing and beliefs rather than anything else..

You can't realli cite evidence other than your own opinion which is based on how you were brought up

No homosexuality is not wrong and of course they are alright people. I don't believe that they are homosexuals just to dis-please God because it is not their fault they were born that way.




But doesn't the Bible also teach that God loves the sinner but not the sin? He might say he doesn't believe in homosexuality but then again that doesn't mean that you should hate the nor bash them. We should love one another. Or am I wrong?


Now if you hate homosexuals and bash them yet still call yourself a Christian I am ashamed of you. Remember y'all "'Love your neighbour as yourself.'"

I didn't really read anything else after I found this (which was about the second post)

so, someone else might have already said this, but

God doesn't say it's wrong, the bible says it's wrong.

what you have to decide is whether the bible came directly from god, or if it was tainted by the men writing it.

Please dont argue religion.. there are other topics for that..

And you should at least read the last few posts right before yours as well..

um yeah id really like to see quote me saying that i hate homosexuals and me bashing them. WHEN DID I SAY I HATE HOMOSEXUALS?? i said that it was against my morals, smart one



news flash genius, HOMOSEXUALS ARE NOT BORN GAY. there is no hard evidence, or any at all for that matter that proves that a person can be born gay. if they know that it is a sin, and diliberately do it anyway, then its just as bad as wanting to "dis-please" God. im sure that gay people are just as nice and good as a straight person, but that does not justify their choice of a gay lifestyle




um first of all im a female, thanks, second of all whats with the "in your little world" nonsense? its my opinion, and my morals, i have the right to think and feel the way i want. and since when do ppl end up marrying soembody that theyre not attracted to or have feelings for? if youre guna make those kinda examples, be alittle bit more realistic and mature about it


umm no thanks, i dont hafta to "go in their shoes for once" for anybody. and, "you people"? what exactly do you mean by that? the people that have the right to think that homosexuality is wrong? cmonnn gimme a break, dont say such childish things

it's disgusting... im against it. i think God are against the homosexuals... well of course he loves us no matter what we are, but... i think it's still recommend as sins

they're ok.. its not really their fault.
people treatin them like shiz.. this is jus like racism -0-;

I had to decided to leave this one but i cannot stand for people to say it is like being black

NO IT IS NOT. You choose to be gay. Just like I haven chosen to be a Christian it is my choice eventhough other people say it is wrong for me to be a Christian and tear me down doesn't take away from it being MY choice. I am proud of being a Christian therefore I am proud of my choice to be one. I'm sick of hearing "it is just like someone being African American" trust me it is not. I was born nigerian,black. People have hated me for just being born that way. You can choose who you like. It is like you like your friend but you choose to or not see them in a sexual way. You can help who you like, that is why people hate some people. Because they choose to hate someone just as they choose to love someone

although there is a difference between racism and people not agreeing with homosexuality, most of it is based on on hatred. weither its a mild hatred or a strong feeling of hate, it all leads 2 discrimination. The level of discrimination of homosexuality will never grow to the level of racism, because more people kno not 2 discriminate someone based on somethin that shouldnt even matter.The thing is, gays, lesbians r still being discriminated.

and ur comment about incest. incest is a totally different matter. incest is about one person doing somethin 2 a family member against their will. its not like the child or the family member whos the victim chose 2 be partake in it.

personally i dont like it when ppl say oh God doesnt like this cause it says in the bible. or when ppl speak for God. How do u kno that the bible wasnt altered or changed when the people wrote it? how do u know that watever the bible says is all the words of God?

i'm not saying that u should totally go against god or anything, but just live ur life morally rite with god guiding ur path. and i kno nobody is perfect, u just have 2 try ur best.

2 me, the only person that should speak for God, is God. and wat i dont get is ppl say that god luvs all his children. then y do they go and say God hates gays, lesbians and so on. just doesnt make sense 2 me. its contradictory.


but yea i'm in support of gays and lesbians cause the personality should only matter. not the way they live their life.

I don't think anyone in this debate siad God hates gays or lesbians. Many people said that God loves them, as he say hate the sin but love the sinner, cuz we are all sinners.

I do believe God gave us the Bible and hye gave it to us so that we would have guidence. If yo udon't believe i nthe Bible how can you believe in God when the belief of God is coming from the bible(well now here in present times when we have the bible for us). The bible was given to us for a standard of living and to help show who God is and how he wants us to live our life. I do not believe the bible was altered because it came from God, and it doesn't contradict itself. You know that is just my firm belief that believing in God come with believing in the Bible.

well how do you know that the bible hasnt be changed in all these years? it can go either way ya know? and untill there is evidence then im standing by it..



nobody said that God hates homosexuals..we only stated that he said it is a sin to practice homosexuality.

what I dont understand is how when we state our opinions and say that it is against our morals, or how we follow what was said in the bible, people twist our words around saying that we are bashing, and how God hates homosexuals. all we're saying is that we dont support it..i cannot stand it when people do that. dont get me wrong, i hold nothing against gay or bi people and i nvr will. i just dont agree with their lifestyle(as for sexuality). its that simple

homosexuals are people. some of them are good people and some of them are bad people. just like heterosexuals.

EXACTLY

couldn't have said it better. I do not hate homosexuals because i think it is stupid to hate someone for a choice of theirs like sexuality. Shoot my friend is bi and i have NOTHING against her. Just like i love my friends they do stuff that is wrong and i don't support that, but i do support them as people

First of all I never said that you hated them or even have bashed them . . . it was a whole different paragraph, genius. Geez don't take this to the arse.


Second of all simmer down and show me the hard evidence that proves that they aren't born this way. How are we sure that they can even tell whether a straight man will love a woman or vice-versa? Science is not always accurate.

Love is blind, it has no boundaries, it knows no colour, religion, race, nor sex. Is it their fault that they are in-love with the same gender? No, of course not they can't help it. Is it my fault that I love men? NO! Because it comes natural to me. Same for them, it comes naturally.

Human kind have set boundaries to many things, mostly physical, but I consider laws as boundaries as well.

We set boundaries and/or laws to prevent chaos.

Love is blind, but that doesn't mean that people who are not in that relationship must be blind also.

If you think that love is blind, then do you think that we should turn that blind eye on incest or student teacher relationships?

Never said they had to be.


I would say sure, if both parties were comfortable with that decision then why should a law stop them. Who are we to dictate their lives, not all Americans are Christians. There are some religions that accept this but why do we have to put a law over them when they don't believe in the same thing we do.

ok then could you please tell me who you were referring to and if you wouldnt mind quoting anybody in this topic that said they hated gay people. that would really clear things up



well here ya go...


if thats not good enough for you here the link that goes into further detail..
click

and as for all that "love is blind" and "they cant help it" stuff, please save it for somebody else. too many people have used those excuses and in my eyes it doesnt justify anything..

if you want to research also please find me something that proves there a gene present, or even absent, that determines some humans to be homosexual and others straight

It was just a general point not stating you, me, them, etc.





It wasn't only directed towards you . . . so techincally I did save it for somebody else. It might not justify your decision but it does mine.


And as for the link . . . it's has just made me confused

So my original point being, that just because gay people are "blindly" in love, doesn't mean that people like me have to support their blindedness.



Hm, I'm definately NOT Christian and I'm now semi-against simply because of my own moral standards. We dictate their lives because their lives directly affect ours.

Imagine with me that you have children:

You understand that aside from a "home" environment, school and friends very much affect your children's way of life.

If their friends are involved in incestry, and your children happen to like that trend as well... and well... have sex with each other just for the heck of it and not love, how would you feel about that?

Now then back to homosexuality...

I think there are a lot of "fake" homosexuality and I consider being "bi" fake. For the most part, they can choose who they love and they do not have to marry anyone of the same sex.

Maybe I'm old fashion, I don't know, but I still think that homosexual marriages is WRONG (depending on the circumstance).

Now, as for homosexuals themselves, I have no problem with them unless they make out in front of me because I consider that immoral. If they want a person like me to respect them, then they have to give some semblence of respect for me. That's how the world works, you can't get respect for free.