They deserve more money? Why are women a dead investment? Can you at least elaborate on that? It sounds pretty superficial and stereotypical to me.

And I don't need to talk to my employer about a raise.. Last time I got $500 for a concert and I played for 10 minutes. ;) And of course I'm not going to use that reason to get a raise. I was basing my argument on the original one. "Men pay for dates, so they deserve more money." Complete bullshit.

QUOTE

due to the fact that they have babies.

Fact? I'm not having kids. Not only me, but lots of other women as well.

Men deserve more money because pound for pound, they produce more. End of story. Sure, some women are exceptions, but men are naturally better at the jobs that count. I'm sure you're going to throw a tantrum about it though.

Women are dead investments because they have babies and are put out of commission for months. Men don't. I don't care if you don't plan on having a baby, we're talking in general.

It's a fact that women have babies and men don't. If you have a problem with this, study human reproduction.



Good for you? Must have been a bad concert though. This guy I know gets paid more than twice that for like 15 minutes.

It's not all fun and games for guys either. They have to pay more money on car insurance, even though women get into more accidents than men.

Face it, women are simply not as valuable as men. There's a reason why baby girls are more often aborted than baby boys.

oh hush jesus, i do what i please. plus im your elder.

men produce more than women? and we only bare babies? and, apparently, we're a dead investment. ...

women bear children for 9 months... and sometimes, that 9 months was a dead investment because the kids turn into criminals, sexists, racists, bums, etc.

just a question, are you actually sexist? or do you play devil's advocate to piss off people?

yeah... so women can't work for a few months. but there are more male criminals. more homeless men. but no matter what i argue, you'll say women are somehow inferior.

more females are also applying for college now. in a few years, it might be more balanced.

QUOTE(kryogenix @ May 3 2007, 11:11 PM)

Men deserve more money because pound for pound, they produce more. End of story. Sure, some women are exceptions, but men are naturally better at the jobs that count. I'm sure you're going to throw a tantrum about it though.

Women are dead investments because they have babies and are put out of commission for months. Men don't. I don't care if you don't plan on having a baby, we're talking in general.

It's a fact that women have babies and men don't. If you have a problem with this, study human reproduction.

Sure, women aged 20-35 maybe. Although that itself isn't even a justified reason. What about the women outside that age group? Exclude teenagers. And they wouldn't leave work for too long. You too had a mother - don't forget.

Where do you get all this from - the producing part? I've seen plenty of women doing their job better than men - being punctual, on time, and actually DOING their work. I can't understand how you can generalize people like that.

QUOTE

Good for you? Must have been a bad concert though. This guy I know gets paid more than twice that for like 15 minutes.

So will I when I'm actually professoinal. And btw, I'm a classical pianist.

QUOTE

It's not all fun and games for guys either. They have to pay more money on car insurance, even though women get into more accidents than men.

Face it, women are simply not as valuable as men. There's a reason why baby girls are more often aborted than baby boys.

I do agree that women suck at driving - most of them anyway. So I'm not going to go there.

Women aren't as valuable as men? Where did you come out from, a penis?

This whole discussion is pointless. People are different. But to say that men should absolutely get more money than women in all cases, is pure bullshit. Just as I don't claim we should get more, you shouldn't either.

You just described an enormous chunk of the workforce. And if they don't have children, they don't need as much money.



Says the person who made sweeping generalizations just a few posts before. Fact is, jobs women are paid less in, they produce less. Jobs where women excel, like feet smelling, they get paid more.




Good for you? Too bad he'll be making more because he is a guy.



The woman is simply a vestibule.



You're just saying that because you lost.

Men should get more when they deserve more. Women should get more when they deserve more. Men just deserve more more often than women.

So, is it about the fact that women have children and thats the reason why they shouldn't get paid equally? Why should that prevent women getting paid the same since someone has to look after children and what not. Oh and to add to that, the fact that men are generally stronger.
Too be honest, who cares if men are stronger, doesn't mean there better. You know, they say only the strongest survive and all that jazz, what it really means is the one who can adapt and who has the smarts survives.

The same applies when working. Employers are looking for ability, talent, etc. Whether your male, female, black, white, green, whatever. That doesn't matter. What really matters is your abilities, your specializations, etc.

Actually, when I was born my dad stayed home with me and my mom worked. And I'm sure there have been other cases. So it's not just women. Plus, so what if they leave for a certain period of time? Just because the woman carries a living thing inside her shouldn't be the basis of her salary. That's really idiotic. It doesn't matter that she leaves for that time, it matters how she does her work WHILE she is there.



What an ignorant statement. In my field, that doesn't happen. And don't argue, I'm sure you know little to nothing about it.


So you DID come out of a penis.. aha. I understand.



No, I'm saying it because it's true. The creator of this thread himself said he didn't believe what he was arguing.

Oh, I got something out of you after all.. At least now you're not being completely narrow-minded.

And do me a favour, next time, ok? Back up your little points with proof. Because what's there to argue?

So who made more money at the time you were born, your mom or your dad?



You know, the field that women usually make more than men is prostitution.



Where'd you come out of, a turkey baster?





Hahaha you don't got shit.

You've given as much proof as me. Sweeping generalizations and anecdotal evidence. Don't even give me that bullshit.

Sexual equality should be a reality. Emphasis on "should be". But, it isn't. It's idealistic to believe that it ever will be. And there's a logical reason for that. It's all about the money.

Constitutionally, men and women are supposed to be guaranteed equal treatment. Plain and simple. But, even with the letter of the law on our side, I don't anticipate women receiving equal treatment or payment in the workforce any time soon. America and the rest of the world are collectively a male dominated society. That's the way it's been traditionally for centuries. No matter how much women accomplish, there will always be that stereotype that women can't handle the same situations as men, especially in the corporate world. And, to a certain extent, that may be true. However, I'm of the opinion that women just handle a lot of situations differently than men do.

If you look at surveys taken of registered voters in the US, they show that women are generally more likely to vote on issues regarding families, social justice, the environment, and other issues regarding ethics whereas men tend to vote on money, security, and warfare issues. Men and women are inherently different in that women are more in tune to the common good whereas men are more concerned with individual gain and success. Women are generally more likely to follow their heart as opposed to their head and could potentially favor ethics over profit. Men follow their head and usually make more single-minded individualistic decisions, benefiting both themselves and their companies simultaneously. It really depends on the philosophy of the companies that are doing the employing. Statistically there are FAR less women in high power positions in Fortune 500 corporations than there are men, simply because men are the ones that get the big jobs and make the big money without getting caught up in their emotions.

Is this necessarily fair? No. But, this is a capitalist society, so a lot of things are inherently unfair. However I do think that society is taking steps against gender stereotypes. With more and more men becoming "stay at home dads", there's less of a stigma about putting emotions, personal relationships and family first.

It's not coming any time soon, not in the next 50 years at least, but hey! Optimists might say that women might ACTUALLY see true workplace equality in the next century.

My mom made and still makes more money than my dad - and they're both managers.



Interesting. Gee, I had no idea.



YES! You win 10 points.




At least my "proof" isn't ignorant.

so even the men that are alchoholics and don't work should be treated better ad payed more or equally for that matte, than women who go and have work hard for the little money that they do get? people are generally always going to say that they're worth more than they get, no matter what their gender is. what about all the single women raising kids because their no-good boyfriend or husband impregnated them and are so irresponsible to actually take care of a kid? should they have little income even when they have to pay babysitters ot watch their kids? women have way more expenses than men do.

There ya go. I'm right.



At least I'm not ignorant.



fixed

No you're not. My mom had to work AND spend most of the day at the hospital with my grandmother.

And how are you right when I just gave you one example of a female with a bigger salary than a man? But still, the fact that my dad made less is irrelevant since his job was way different.




Based on your responses, I'd say you are. But whatever - it's a debate.

P.S. I'll stop replying because I see no point. You did make a few valuable points, but I still stand by my view, and I'm sure you do too. Ciao!

I win.

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&...G=Google+Search

DID YOU MEAN HE INVENTED?

http://reddit.com/info/1o3sy/comments

church says men should be the head of the family, while the women should embody the body of the family- being submissive to the man's ultimate decision. hmmmm i guess that works?

as far as salaries go i think my mom makes more

but what if the couple doesn't go to church or have a religion at all?
anyways, what does that prove? that men are more powerful in the church so they should get higher pay? it makes no sense.

I don't know what dates you've been going on, but really, hardly anyone does that anymore. I've been on many dates, but I've NEVER had the guy pay the bill. Even when he has a lot more money than me.
And what about lesbian relationships? There's no guy to pay for their dates.



No, they don't. This point is overused in this forum, but I bring it up anyways.
What about single mothers? They have FAR more needs for money than guys do.
Women have to pay for everything that a guy has to pay for and more. I doubt you could find a single thing that men have to pay for that women don't. (or at least don't have a female equivalent that they have to pay for.)



Uh huh. Right.
"traditionally" meaning maybe 30 years ago.

I don't know about prissy little Carmel where everyone's so filthy rich that people don't have to work, but where I live, hardly anyone follows that stereotype.

In my lifetime, I have known maybe... 5? mothers who do that. Most women work. Most women work harder than men do. Most women are far more productive than men.
Quit f**king living in the 20's or some shit like that and see that the world is changing. Women everywhere are proving that they can do anything a man can do and usually can do it better.



You're right. Male =/= Female.
Female > Male.
end of story.



That one really made me laugh. Seriously. I almost pissed myself I was laughing so hard.
Please tell me you were joking.



You're right.
Generally, men are physically stronger than women.
but
Generally, women are smarter.
Generally, women are funnier.
Generally, women are more artistic.
Generally, women work harder.
Generally, women are more productive.
Generally, women are more emotionally intelligent.
Generally, men are more egotistical.
Generally, men are more violent.
Generally, men are lazy bastards.





Lets say apples sell for $4, oranges for $3.25, bananas for $4.25, and grapes for $4.75.
Now lets say that Men are represented by Store A and Women are represented by Store B

Store A has 100 grapes. Store B only has 50 grapes. Thus Store A feels superior. After all, grapes are the most valuable fruit, and Store A has the most grapes.

But Store B also has 50 apples, 50 oranges, and 50 bananas.
Assuming both stores sell all their fruit, Store B will make over 1.7 times as much as Store A.

And that's not even taking into consideration that if given the choice, someone would much rather buy their fruit from Store B, seeing as it sells a much wider variety. And besides, Store A has a lot of rotten grapes mixed in...

'Kay, so why are people trying to make them equal again? 'Kay, so why are males paid more than females?

nice to see that someone's openly sexist, i hate all the ones who try to hide it

why don't we just round up all the men and make em wear retard caps, would that solve everything for you? by the way, is it a bad thing to violently respond to all situations? (ww2, police, if your house is being robbed (i have never fought anyone besides my brother, which was for fun)). i consider myself very emotionally intelligent, thankyou, and i can see that you're probably agitated, frustrated, oh and haughty.

i do agree with you that women work about the same as men and that women can do anything a man can do to some extent. But a man can also do anything a women can do to some extent

Female =\= Male
Which is better? fuk if i know

Oh my, come on kids, who here's serious about all of this.
These responses are filled with 'lol's and 'rofl's.

Anyone who seriously argued a specific side to this topic is made of pure, non-recyclable fail. Have you not learned anything at all from history?

Some people should just be taken out back and shot before they could manage to spread their worthless, silly garbage of ideals around.


Oh, you silly girl.

Who the f**k are you calling a "silly girl" don't you f**king dare try to talk condescending to me. I hope you get your balls ripped off you f**king piece of shit.



Yeah, I'm sexist. but you know what, I have a f**king right to be cuz guys are f**king assholes.
No, I don't think they should all wear retard hats I think they should f**king die. Mabye leave a few of them for breeding purposes only, but keep those ones lokced up away from us.
Guys are f**king ,assholes. All of them. They're f**king murdererers and rapists and twisted, violent abusive pieces of shit perverts. There isn't a single one of them that isn't at least a horny bastard. f**king killl them all and this world'll be a bettter place for a bit... then we'd all die off though... which is why we should keep a few of them around for breeding/pleasure for a few of those crazy ass straight chicks. something is f**king wrong with them. I don't see how anyone could find a guy attractive. they're all f**king disgusting.
I'd kill 'em all myself, but I think I'm a little too drunk right nwo to be doin that. haha.

. . .

Oh, you were drunk.

you can easily argue single fathers with that one.

But you know, I am a girl and I still agree with paying men more. Isn't it a man's pride to be able to show he is financially capable? Or am I really just old fashioned? (haha @ me being old fashioned). And it is true that men DO take up more jobs that get their hands dirty..I don't mean as in murders or hit-man jobs (gosh!). I mean things like Archie mentioned... jobs in sewers, construction, etc etc. Call that stereotyping if you like but I've never seen a woman take up those jobs!

Sounds like someone's sexually frustrated.

I got scared for a minute. I thought I accidentally killed the thread. Good thing I didn't, I was enjoying the conflict.

I referred to you in a condescending manner because I see you as an inferior to myself, and also an inferior to the rest of the posters of this topic. I'll 'talk condescending' to whomever I like, because this is the internet.

Besides, feminism died in the 90's. Your cause went from an equality race to a cult of those too fearful of facing the 'evil penises of death' or getting 'almost raped' (the shorter term you feminists created for 'being in the vicinity of a member of the opposite sex') to grow backbones and become productive members of society.

I disregard you completely, along with your hate-mongering regression of a philosophy.

My point stands.

so the entire argument here is that men should be payed more because they do "harder" jobs? sure...they do constuction work and the like, but so do some women. women are usually smarter than men, therefore being more valuble to the industry buisness. have you ever known a male book-keeper? without women, there would be no population. of course, the same applies for men, but women are the most important when it comes to sexual roles. everyone is pretty much going around in circles and stating the same things more than once so this is pretty much pointless as of now.

Go f**k yourself up the ass with a gigantic vibrating dildo you little piece of shit.

The only way you can phase me, ursedonah, is by bringing up a valid point supporting your conclusions. Creative threats involving dildos don't exactly fill that role.



Hazardous, your point about women 'usually' being smarter than men is completely unsupported by any information. There is no historical study, no scientific journal or experiment, that has touched on the conclusion that one gender is naturally smarter than the other. Your statement is completely unbacked by any information other than opinion and rumors about women, and you seem to be continuing the circle you mentioned in your reply.

Additionally, I've heard of a male book-keeper. He's a guy that likes books. I didn't know that liking books was a girl thing.

And even further, men are just as essential to the reproductive process as women are. Argue as much as you like about how women are the ones who actually carry the baby for nine months, but without the man, (even a neglecting, conceited, irresponsible teenager) the baby would not be created at all. Their roles in the process are essentially equal.

Further still, your statement about women being more important in sexual roles is the most ridiculous thing I've heard today. Is there any need for me to even argue against it?


I love arguing against both sides of the argument.

As to the topic. Yes women are smarts, I won't debate that. Men take the higher up jobs, and take big responsibility jobs, and because of that have to do more work and suffer through more stress. Women may have lesser jobs and make less money, but that serves as a social crutch and often times I see that fully taken advantage of. As to the person whose going nuts over killing men etc, maybe you just aren't one of the smart women who see things the way they are and know when to just take things as they are and realize that it will stay that way for a long time.

since we're saying that men and women have different positive/negative qualities, then women should get paid more as nurses, and men should get paid more as engineers, no?

What about the male nurses or doctors, and what about female engineers?

And about steve330's comment, men do not take up better jobs due to their higher tolerance for stress. There is no stress-tolerance gap between the genders. The only reason why men still get some of the better jobs is because women only started working in prominent positions in the past century, and the world is still somewhat adjusting.

I Never said men took them up because they had higher tolerance. I said they do that because women don't want those jobs as much. Women would much rather be working a little bit lower and not have to deal with all the bureaucratic bullshit and still make a fine sum of money while having a great deal of influence.

i was being somewhat sarcastic and was referring mostly to kryo's comment.

besides, if we're gonna address the issue of paying women the same amount as men for doing the same jobs, why not address the reverse issue? paying women more working jobs that are generally "better fitted" for them would balance out the fact that men get paid more for working jobs that they're supposedly "better" at.

Ahh, now now, you're making generalizations.


1. My high school valedictorian was male.
2. Did you just pull this out of your ass?
3. Let's not bring up art in this. Art is not defined a specific way, so that makes this claim useless.
4. Where did you gain this conclusion?
5. Same as #4
6. Maybe SOME women SHOW it more, but men have the same potential emotional intelligence.
7. I've come across a lot of egotistical chicks in the 19 years I've been alive.
8. Women can be violent too. I witnessed a girl throw another girl into a trashcan and her head was bleeding a lot. That was pretty violent, if you ask me. Have you read "A Child Called It"? I rest my case.
9. You know, if men are such lazy b-tards (no relation to 4chan), then they would be home all day and not even work at all. I mean, there's probably some men like that, but there's women like that too.

the only women that i openly hate are those who think they are somehow superior to you because of who they hang out with, their physical appearance, and their relentless notion that you do not exist. but i hate any man who does the same just as equally. i would punch women in the face just as quikly as any man if it was legal, all this bs about being overly considerate to women shoulda gone out the window with the feminist movement (for any women who are genuine about it). my sister came in my room the other day and started hitting me and throwing random objects at me all the while commanding me to make her lunch. i punched her in the stomach and made her cry, oh look at me the horrible man...

studies show that neither men or women are superior to each other. the sexual phenotype is the only difference. they both have different intelligiance levels, but they have different types of which they use more of depending on their gender. as far as reproduction goes, they both play roles in the outcome. however, there are more single mothers than single fathers. sexism is truely stupid when it comes right down to it. it gets you nowhere. both genders are hard-working exept for exeptions, like everything else in the world. clearly, you know as well as i do that women worked outside the home even fifty years ago.
if you need anymore proof, search google. there are tons of studies there.

QUOTE

Women, for their part, learn to speak earlier, know more words, recall them better, pause less and glide through tongue twisters.

QUOTE

Although sex differences in brain and body take their inspiration from the central agenda of reproduction, they don't end there. "We've practiced medicine as though only a woman's breasts, uterus and ovaries made her unique -- and as though her heart, brain and every other part of her body were identical to those of a man," says Marianne J. Legato, M.D., a cardiologist at Columbia University who spearheads the new push on gender differences. Legato notes that women live longer but break down more.

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-2832.html

That is very traditional the idea of men having to pay for everything.

I believe that men and women both have things that need to spend on. Saying that one gender needs more money for whatever reason is very stereotypical; however, life isn't fair, all we can really do is vote to hopefully have our opinions represented by congress.