You guys are making a really big deal over hiring process, mods, etc.

That was maybe 5% of my original post, and I don't know why you guys feel the need to vehemently defend cB, unless it's a twange of guilt. Again, in case any of you missed:

My purpose here is NOT to bash cB.

You're calling me rude and childish, which is fine, I expected that. I'm listening to the people that are legitimately arguing my points, and some of you argue very well, and I thank you for the thought.

But before I say anything else, for the handful of you who are saying

"OMG WTF TEH INTRAWEBS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS! WTF WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG DEAL TO YOU DO YOU GET PAID OR SOMETHING OMG?!"

First, it IS serious business. It's serious business because, like the creators of cB, I've poured thousands of hours into the site, and, on my end, I know we've spent close to twenty thousand dollars in the past six months in hardware, firmware, code, back end, and front end upgrades. It's still a mess because we're not done, but it will look real nice when it's fixed up.

So yes, it's serious business. It's serious business because I have a fat wad of change and time in my site, so you'll have to excuse me if I roll my eyes at these comments. Unless you've taken on the monumental task of running a site like myself, or your mods and admins at cB have, then you really have no idea.

Although I've read two pages of 75% slander, some of you have seen past any indignation and anger to cut to the heart of my matter here.

Libertie actually summed it up in the last part of her post:



That's all I'm asking, really. If I had BR members who blatantly came to cB to spam and cause havok, and if someone came to me and asked for help, you'd bet your ass I'd jump on it. Not because I like to punish people, but because it's the right thing to do. It's common courtesy. I don't see what's so unreasonable about doing this.

I think we've rather balkanised the situation, and it's something that's occured on both ends. Let's remember a coulpe things:

1) Other than my members typing in www.blogring.net, and you guys typing in www.createblog.com, we are exactly the same people. Both our sites members fit roughly the exact same age demagraphic, have the same interests, and generally are posessant the same personality traits. Had Mona Lisa came to BR, and posted exactly what i did here, the reaction, too, would have been the same.

2) Although feuding is all well and good, let's remember one thing. We sit at the top of a very large pyramid, and they're are a thousand other sites snapping at our ankles to try and topple us. Search anything myspace/xanga related, you're going to see two sites predominately:

Blogring, and Createblog. Do you know how hard we BOTH worked to get there? How hard it's going to be in the future, with the rising popularity of personal pages and blogs, to STAY there? We're on the top of the food chain, we can both take pride in that. But if we waste our time battling each other, you can also bet there will be scavengers and bottom feeders waiting to rip us apart.

3) Again, what I'm asking is not unreasonable. I'm not pointing a gun at your head and demanding you do this and not expect the same from myself. If there are problems, they need to be worked out. Talked out, discussed. Instead of arguing for pages, which I don't have a problem doing but don't see a point end, let's discuss the problem before us, and word on a legitimate solution, thusly shaking the foundations of the internets. Because I'm fairly sure working together has never been done online.

I'm just asking for the spam to stop. Some people here want to do it, I'm sure, they want to come to BR just to stir the bad air.

- BrandonSaunders

This is pretty much indicative of the attitude that shouldn't exist. Brandon, you'd be better to act as an example to your peers rather than some engine of havok. People would like you more, I would like you more, cB and BR would like you more, and you wouldn't make people think you were 12. And I'm not a "so-called moderator". The so-called moderators work for me. Thanks. ;)

It's the attitudes like this that don't exist on my site. Why? Because we encourage an atmosphere of acceptance. If every member of cB, like I said, came to BR with good intentions, they'd be welcomed with open arms.

Quit turning this into a "save teh respectz of cB" thread and let's treat it for what it really is:

I have a grievance, I need your help to work it out. I. Need. YOUR. Help. I can't do it on my own, that's why I'm coming to you.

But for those of you who aren't wanting to do that, who have just jumped the shark with the defense:



Mirrored my thoughts.

vendetta.
your a great Administrator i do admit.
along with mona lisa on cb
i left br beacuse i was there since 2004 i forget
and i still felt like an outsider.
ive only been at cb a month and ive made friends here
people here actualy know my name.
i actualy have a face here.

as death star i was just death star. i wanted to be diana.


bash me if youd like tear my post apart tell me i as a bad br member. i know i was.

however i wont be replying in this post again nor will i be reading it again. if theres something you want to say to me. PM me
i find this a fight that wont die down and i dont want to get fired up beacuse as you can tell from my remark about br i do get fired up about things.even if my remark was stupid or offencive so its best that i not enter this thread again


id like to apologize for the remark i was quoted for earlyer in this post.
im asking for my remark to be forgotton as stupid trash that came out of my mouth for i am truely sorry

like i said you can bash me but just know i take back what i said.
blogring isnt a big popularity contest.



and as for you not banning me.
even tho i see no reason for it being a option beacasue i have not come on your board to bash you and your members. nor have i asulted you directly to your face.or spamed about how "Cb rOcKs DuUuDe" i thank you
i still use some br layouts.and even thogh i was a moron and said certain things
but still im thankful. thats the most mercy ive been shown on a forum ever..


so thanks.for the years at br.

as now its time for my new journey here at cb


peace.
diana aka a painefull euphoria
or death star raven.

Something directed towards me? How lovely as I wait for my flight to Japan!

-Wreaking organized havoc for the sake of 'rebuilding a country' is what I do for a living. Not much is going to change on internet forum.

-I'm not trying to please anyone here or win them over. I could care less who likes me more or less for whatever reason.

-They work for you? Touche.

-From my perspective, being that I don't really care much at all about these childish bickering, you could have avoided a lot of this if you would have not posted this publicly. Most online forums are like high school and they thrive off of drama (even if it doesn't involve them). When there's an issue between sites, it would probably be better if you spoke to someone who mirrored position on cb side. Then again, analyzing our site and picking at problems that aren't really as serious as they seem did a lot for forum activity.

Hello there. You will learn to get over it. Deal with it. Problem will continue. You can't stop it. You don't have access to everyone's computer to stop them for spamming. No matter what you do, there's always spam and hostile. bringing this topic up will not solve the problem about spamming in your website.






That's just a general post. You should let mircon know about the problems. Talk to him. He can do something about it. After all, he's the respectable creator of createblog.com.

So is there lots of money invovled with blogring? twenty grand kind of seems extreme(and kind of high for your site w/ all the little kiddie points and stuff)...I hope you were not being serious.

Shall this be the rebirth of the Republic?

I don't know Vendetta, I think you're making a big fuss of something so small. I mean your site still exists right? No one hacked into the mainframe and deleted all your hardwork. So you're complaining over little shit...

First, Showme, it takes an incredible amount of money to pay for the amount of bandwidth we use, especially since I'm running blogring in an advertisement free space right now, until our upgrade is done. Secondly, it takes a lot of money to get a proffesional programmer to help me code... I'm a journalist, not an IT proffesional. Even if your audience is younger, doesn't mean they should be shorted on qaulity.

And No Fear, if it's just some little shit... it shouldn't be that hard to fix, should it.

Look, I understand why Mic has come here with a complaint and I admit that we (the general "we") have been unreceptive towards him in that regard - this topic should never have gotten to three pages of bickering. I didn't gather any hostility in the first post, so there is no reason for us to have been defensive and/or rude to him for it.

Normally I would say that we have no control over what happens outside of cB, but we do know for a fact that a large group of members from our forums has been trolling BR for quite some time now. While we may or may not be doing anything to encourage this behavior, we certainly aren't doing anything to discourage it.

When our members think it's funny to continuously harrass what might be considered a "competing" website, it creates an even bigger rift between the two communities. If we want to have a somewhat peaceful relationship with BR the way we say we do, why not agree to help them out?

What Dani is saying is valid and do-able. We can discourage members from trolling BR, we just can't ultimately prevent it.

Dani (Libertie) has said a lot that mirrors what is on my heart and mind, and I agree with it. It goes both ways. I can't totally prevent people from trolling cB, but I discourage it strongly, and punish those I catch, and unless I'm missing something, I think cB remains relatively unharassed by BR.

I think her last two paragraphs sum an even ground that I think we both can meet on. :)

um yeah okay some of us have, maybe not as big a blogring but yes some of have.

and even if it wasn't a website, i know theres a lot of designers here at cB (well duh) and they spend the same amount of time dealing with stuff as much as someone would with making a website.

i'm not trying to be mean or anything, i'm just trying to point something out and prove a point.

I'm moving this to feedback because it really doesn't belong in the Lounge.

Here I was, telling James that he took the internet seriously but wow. Just wow. Wow. *Grabs popcorn*.

I will make this very clear now:

This topic has a specific purpose, and any post that is not meant to contribute to that purpose will be regarded as spam.

The issue here is what to do as far as CB members who are openly trolling at BR, and I'm suggesting that we treat them here the same way we would treat a spammer on our own forums. I will quote my post for those who apparently missed it:



What I would like is feedback on this suggestion, does anyone see anything wrong with taking this course of action from now on?

i agree 100 percent.
even though im no mod

the way you act on this forum.
you should act on other forums.
even if your more "loyal" to one over the other.
and if your busted by what i will all your " home forum"[ie: creating a account for spaming on BR and you are a member of CB]
then i think it becomes that home forum's jurisdiction as to the proper punishment

or am i reading Libertie's suggestion wrong? = /

if i'm analyzing your response right heres mine,
cB can't be responsible for other people's actions, or else cB would be controlling us which would be insane. it is the own persons responsibility for taking a stupid action.

example for when i said "cB can't be responsible for other people's actions."

lets say you have two schools, we'll call school no.1 united and we'll call school no.2 states
now lets say theres a student named Betty, and she currently goes to united. Betty is planning on viewing other school options for the next school year and she goes to states to view it. now lets say shes there for a tour and gets to fallow a student around with their schedule and everything, so she gets to view one class and acts up and says "oh my gosh united is so better, this school is crap!" well you can't blame united for Betty's behavior now can you?

people control their own actions, they have to think for themselves, they're the ones that are making them self type something stupid at br.

i hope you understand.

^I cannot remember your name, but I don't think your analogy's particularly relevant.

Look at it like this. There's two rival schools - I'm not going to name them - and they've both got really good football teams, so they get pretty into it and all. People from the one school go and vandalize the other, and it's totally not either school's fault, and people should be responsible for their own actions. However, they aren't. Thus, it is the school's responsibility to punish the vandals to prevent the rivalry from worsening. It would no good for the administrators to just sit around blame the other school for provocation, and suggest that the school that was vandalized is making things worse by objecting.

That's pretty much the situation here. No, no one objects cB to "control" it's members and be able to prevent all spamming to occur (especially when you consider it can't control its own members' spam ), but that doesn't mean that the admins can't do something to keep it from worsening. The effort's what counts.

And yes, Dani's exactly right.

Well to be honest I agree with Steven, you aren't ever going to be able to stop it. Simple as that, if you want to bring it up with someone that will actually do something about it contact Micron about it, hes the owner and if he really sees some big concern in the problem then he'll do something about it.

We are going to keep going around and around about this until people start actually reading.

I will echo the following:

Please just provide feedback regarding whether or not punishment should be administered (for lack of a better word) here at cB for trolling/spamming at other boards, particularly BR.

Here's my opinion-
Yes, but not to the extent that staff here monitors what goes on at other boards. If someone on BR staff (or a member of BR for that matter) is seeing that type of behavior, alert a staff member at cB, then they should absolutely be treated in the same manner as if they were trolling/spamming here.


I'm with you, except for the contact micron part. Contact should be with Administrators and Moderators. I would say for moderators, go with Admin/Head/People, as I imagine the trolling/spamming is more than likely to occur in a forum likely to be moderated by People Staff, as opposed to Design-y staff. Although any moderator can warn, suspend, etc.

One more thing -

Just wanted to echo that too.

^But out of respect for the other community, I don't see why we shouldn't set an example by discouraging our members from that type of behavior.

Nobody said we were going to stop this from happening - As Nicki said, we can't prevent spam on our own forums, right? But we still punish it nonetheless. That's what I'm proposing here.

Oh absolutely Dani, I think I said something to that effect in an earlier response.

Ahhh yes.



Point being, we totally should discourage (that's more blatent, I suppose) spamming/trolling anywhere.

(sorry Rebecca, my post was directed at Holly's response, I just posted a bit too late)

Again, for those of you with the concern, I am not advocating gestapo control here.

But in my mind, if you have spammers, and members you know to spam, with the sole purpose of coming from cB to spam BR, then that needs to be nipped in the bud, so to speak. By wiping your hands of the matter, and saying, "Well, you know, free will and all, it's not my problem," that's tantamount to condoning it.

As someone once said, "All good men have to do to allow evil to triumph is to do nothing." Buty instead of analogies, let me give a real life example.

When I took power over BR long ago, there WAS indeed an anti-cB movement, and I saw it as a growing problem. There were still a lot of ill feelings because of certain events that occured long in our pasts.

Now, knowing this was going on, I knew no good could come of it, it would be bad for the relationship we share as two different communities, and bad PR on my end. To allow it to happen would make me look innefectual and my staff unaware, and that was something I would not allow.

Fortunately, I had a fairly good idea of where the dissention was coming from, and popped in, simply saying, "Technically speaking, I can't prevent you from spamming cB. But if you do, they're going to punish you. And if I find out, I'm going to punish you. You're being nothing but a nuisance, and if you think you're doing this out of support of BR, you're wrong, because I don't support it, and I don't support you if you do it."

Once the dissaproval of the site as a whole, my staff, and my administration was made clear, it died away. They realised that I wouldn't treat them any differently as any other spammer.

Likewise, I treat any cB member who comes to BR with the explicit intent to spam or cause ill will with the same prejudice. And as BR members with good intent are welcomed on cB, so are they on BR.

I believe in working relationships, and I believe in proffesional relationships. Even if we can't be "friends" (Though I wish we could, and we'll see in the future, especially with the growing heat of competition...we might indeed need to turn to one another), then I believe we should at least be amiable. And if cB came to BR with a problem, I'd handle it appropriately.

Vice versa I would expect it here. You have my word, I will continue to diligently control anti-cB opinion and spam on my website. All I ask is the same courtesy in return. Relationships are not forged in one action, Rome was not built overnight. But working together on this matter, perhaps we can start laying the groundwork for greater cooperation in the future.

Yea I'm not saying we can set an example, I'm all for that. I think its really disresptful for our members to go on blogring and bash it or spam it. But its really nothing we can stop in the end, people will do whatever they want to do. Its sad that people want to be that immature about it but -shrugs- its the truth.

I just had to come on for a minute or two and say that I realize where I went wrong in saying it doesn't happen on cB so cB (I) doesn't (don't) have control over it.

I'm fine with punishing the member as if he/she were spamming on cB. I.e. starting off with a verbal or even a raised warning level and going up from there if it continues, though I don't think/hope it will. It probably has become a great nuisance to you to have some of cB's members ridiculously spamming on BR and so I apologize.

*back to studying*

Okay.

So I've read this and here's my two cents, as a moderator.

1) I have contributed a bunch of Xanga layouts to BR in the past, and I know how much you guys hate spamming and value yourselves as a community. I strove to kept myself unbiased. I succeeded, but there are some things that I like about cB more than BR. That doesn't matter. Now that that is established:

2) I agree with punishing our members that spam on BR that our "home members" the same as we would in any normal spamming case. It mirrors US federal law when people commit crimes in foreign countries... therefore, I agree.

3) I think that there should be a constant communication flow between Admins/mods of both sites. You know, IP address sharing, updates on spam reports and so on.

4) I think, though there are pros and cons to both websites and differing opinions, that we need to start working together in harmony. It would foster positive outcomes.

Maybe you mean the generally "we" or a specfic group of members on this forum but I wasn't aware of a group of people doing this. And I think it's safe to assume that there a bunch of other people who may not be aware. Could you please PM me more info about this group of people.

My thing is this, and it may have already been stated, but there so many posts in this thread that don't deal with the matter at hand that I don't know. They key here is communication. Please don't automatically expect us to know who is spamming on your forum at any particular time even if they are regular members of this forum. Maybe I'm out of the loop or don't go in chat much but I haven't heard anything about a group spammers going on at BR from any mod or member. With that said and with the lines of communication open, I can see about punishing members that go to BR with the sole purpose of doing the forum harm but don't expect us to know who these people are all the time. If you have an issue with a member of our forum on your site please to let us know so we can do something about it and vice versa. And if we happened to find out about this sort of activity through our board then it our staff's responsibility to handle the matter in a timely fashion. From there if that member is indeed found quilty of the offense then they would be issued the same punishment as any other spammer.

I agree that the hostility between the two sites has gone on far enough and I'm ready to do anything in my power to mediate the problem.

I believe if we wish to alleviate problems occuring between us, the site administrators should remain in constant contact. I'm willing to work with cB in any matter that is deemed necessary. I think this matter is just the first step.

If you need my contact information, go ahead and PM me here and I'll respond. If we can alleviate the spamming problem, perhaps we can work towards other, positive ends. As mzkandi said...the hostility has gone on long enough.

This is so childish.

^ Tell me about it, this isn't Sony vs. Microsoft....

Tell you about what?

mmhmmi would now like my money and i'm being serious.

The last three posts are useless, but:

jumpropeforheart: I think you misconstrued what she said, since she's been a fairly active member of cB for close to a year.

krnxswat...No Fear...

Do I need to link the posts where your mods and admins told you to stay on topic, or can you find them yourself? (BTW, comparing Microsoft to Sony is ridiculous, we all know Sony is going the way of Sega. <3 )

We're having good discussion here, I'd like it to continue, I am learning a lot and am valuing what constructive things and ideas people are sharing here. Something good will work out, I know it!

So, the message I'm getting is that you want cB and BR to cooperate with each other to improve one another, but, at the same time, remain individuals.

There's been a lot of ideas of cooperation between the two sites, though, and I'm probably thinking way, way ahead of myself, I've always wondered what would have happened if cB and BR actually merged together, being that we have somewhat common interests, common services, etc, and if we'd be cooperating so much, why not break the barrier.

Though, I understand that it would be incredibly difficult to try doing that, if not impossible without considering the more significant aspects of the two websites (the owners, the money that's made, servers, etc.), having to deal with all the members, moving things, all that jazz.

It's an extreme idea, though it's been floating around in my head for a while.
I'll let it float around here too, even though I'm probably not the only one who's had similar ideas.

in no way is it misconstrued. perhaps you should try reading it yourself because it is from a topic in which criss has mentioned about how she liked the idea of our lounge being "unmoderated". that then led her to the conclusion of which was quoted.

anyway, i know of criss and how active she's been on cB. i've talked to her on br about many random things and found out it was her behind Mistress Bags back when she made the username.

in short, i dont want to be involved in this, but i thought that 100 dollars wouldn't hurt. maybe you shouldn't speak so big if you can't deliver. truthfully, i read the first post and left after that because i think this is stupid, but couldn't pass up free money.

blogring.

i don't know who you are or where you come from, but i don't like you.

you're quite a stickler for rules. an authority figure.

WELL BULLY FOR YOU.

anyways, i never even knew about BR's existance till this 'anti-hostility mandate' was posted.

seriously. are CB admins going to BR posting 'anti-hostility mandates' there as well?

boo-hoo. you're an admin of an online forum, and someone's spamming you. So you tighten down the rules and shove that ---- further up. You know who else did that? the COMMIES.

you're lucky we don't go spread democracy to you.

sometimes you've got to be man enough to let someone take a crack at your balls.

Sure, come over here and beg for a truce. You're not going to get one, you commie. This is CB. We are totally free to support our administrators here.

So you know what, you can go down, just like the stupid part of xanga you're named for.

blogring.

and that's the word.

(this post is a side effect of watching the colbert report. another post can be found tommorrow after 12, 11 central.)

^^ If you have nothing to say that makes any logical sense, then please, spare me. I have neither the time nor the inclination to deal with idiots. But good attempt at sounding like an internet badass, I bet you're feeling like a real man now. I even venture a guess that you went back and read your post after you wrote it, you know, because you're that clever.

Quit wasting my time. If you think you're little rant affects me in the slightest or "pwns" me in any way, get a clue. You mean nothing to me.



jumpropeofheart, again, learn to read and interpret damn posts, quote jockey.

Las I checked, this wasn't BR, was it.


Arjuna, it's a nice idea, but you're right, we're two different sites with two different owners, server resources, staff, and incomes and financial situations. It'd be endlessly complex. Not that I'd not be willing to discuss it at the least, but it'd be EXTREMELY complex to pull off.

Does anyone have anything else, or can I go and try and reach administrators privately after I consult my staff about our possible resolution?

well, someone lacks a sense of humor, or an idea of who stephen colbert, the greatest man on earth is.

sheesh.

Justin, he/she doesn't have time to spare his/her sense of humor on you. Cease wasting time or you shall be destroyed/banned as is the trend that is being promoted. Anyone who wastes admins' time shall be banned... or punished so very completely.

well who made that rule?

it seems totalitarian, almost hitleresque.

i'm not too sure, but i think democracy needs defending.

//edit Nevermind, I'm not getting drug into a stupid argument.

Justin... And I agree, but since there is a perceived rise in "hostility" (a.k.a. increased workload for the BR admin), he/she wants CB to assist in mitigating the bad blood. That amounts to no time wasting because work at BR is difficult enough without CBers wrecking havoc and raping the delicate minds of BR members, my friend.

(I do believe he/she called you an idiot, albeit with some class).

If this partnership is establish and cross-forum spammers are banned, I do suggest that CB change its "community driven" logo to something less tasteful, or else it will run the risk of advertising falsely. After all, no community is complete without the aforementioned time-wasters and useless spammers.

Well, how far do you want to go with the whole partnership thing?

I was thinking, maybe we could have some place (I had a forum in mind) where admins and moderators coming from both cB and BR could hold discussions. There, the opinions on issues, ideas, all that sort, could be gathered from both sides. And I'm sure that would help keep each other in the know about the two sites.

I suppose you could get the some of the same basic information from just admins, but I thought it'd be nice to have the thoughts of more people.

I'm actually interested right now in what BR has been saying about this whole thing.

The only thing about that idea is it would have to through micron and have his approval. I'm not comfortable doing something like that without his knowledge and permission. So, as of right now that idea would be a no-go.

I don't think we should think too far ahead of ourselves and deal with the issue of spamming. If there are any other issues outside of this that a BR admin would like to discuss then they are free to PM me or Mona.

First of all, I don't like seeing BR, cB, and "combining" in the same sentence. That would be chaos. I'm cool with cooperation, but I enjoy the two being totally separate.
We're already working on our own solution, so, no, thanks.

Also, stop calling our members names. You've been doing it thought this entire thread. It makes you look like a child. How old are you anyway? Even if they are acting childish, just because you don't agree with their opinion doesn't mean you have a right to name call. You, of all people, are suppose to be professional here.

Oh, and BTW: "Well, not to be rude, but that was about as half assed of an answer you can get. Don't beat around the bush here. Mona asked what "popularity contests" have you seen during hiring sessions here. Either answer it or don't bother trying to avoid it. I really don't see where you got this anyway. Our hiring sessions are very thorough. I was hired fairly new. I had left cB for a year for personal reasons, only being a member a little before that year brake, and I got hired. I wasn't popular in the least bit, but I proved I could do the job. And bad mods? What bad mods? Go ahead, name some and actually give valid reasons. If your going to make accusations, back them up. It makes you look false for not doing so.

And yet you fail to illustrate any of your accusations. Oh, and "occured" is spelled occurred."

I'm still waiting for a reply.

Nah, Michael suggested to Jusun waaaayyyy before, and, of course, we declined. Just because cB is superior and blogring is inferior, as everyone knows it.

^ I don't like the idea of cB and BR even working together, and even if we did manage to come to some sort of truce and agree to "work together", I doubt everyone can overcome their differences and manage to truly be partners.

And what is there to discuss between the two forums, anyways?

I can see that now.

I withdraw from the table at this time, and henceforth. I can see that working together on anything is an impossibility. And that's fine. I draw the line in the sand.

I had hoped, in the spirit of goodwill and cooperation, we could work together. But many of you, even among staff, have shown an objective refusal to even cooperate on the most basic of matters, those that might be beneficial to us both.

But never accuse me of being arrogant, when many of you illustrate your own pretty clearly. Many of you can't get over our petty differences to get anything done. But I'm done with cB. I'll handle it, forget it. I'll see you all from the other side of the fence.

I don't understand why you're jumping to conclusions.

I agree with Kiera in that if cB and BR were truly to merge together, it would have to be at the approval of Ju-Sun. However, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be civil to each other. Combining at this stage (where both sites have come so far) seems to be a near impossibility but that doesn't mean we cannot cooperate.

And I don't know where you're coming from when you say "many of you, even among staff, have shown an objective refusal to even cooperate on the most basic of matters, those that might be beneficial to us both." To try to stop those from spamming BR, something was proposed. You didn't respond to it. If you overlooked at the most important parts of this thread, I will not point it out, and it was proposed/repeated more than once.

last time i checked, the quote was from blogring, wasn't it.
http://blogring.net/forum/1641056-post10.html

pay up, sucka.