See, I know everyone says this, but I think Dumbledore orchestrated his death. Why not? He acted in front of the other death eaters (remember, Amycus and other death eaters were present at Dumbledore's death and it would've been stupid to reveal where his true loyalties lay (Snape)) Snape has been known to be able to act well before, and is a strong Occlumens and could therefore shield his mind quite profoundly against the Dark Lord. You are right about Dumbledore explaining everything to Harry, and this fits the puzzle.

However, the vexing thing is that it could easily be the other way round. Dumbledore was aware of his death but he did not know it was coming so soon, and Dumbledore was pleading in his last moments for Severus not to kill him, but Severus revealed his true self and, with true loathing, murdered Dumbledore.

I know this is a classic argument that has been discussed many, many times before.

Also, Mona Lisa, I agree with you totally about it being intruiging. I read for 4 hours straight, re-reading the book, over and over again, so as to catch any clues leading up to Dumbledore's death. Then, of course, I went to MuggleNet to see if they spotted anything I didn't.

Haha, I'm such a Harry Potter geek!

I have read both sides of the argument and I believe it was on MuggleNet. Anywho, I remember the article I read saying that Dumbledore could have been pleading Snape not to kill Harry. Snape and Dumbledore could have easily read each other's mind. Snape isn't stupid so he must have seen the extra broomstick and since he probably knew where Dumbledore was off to (being that Dumbledore trusts him so much), he knew that Harry could be in danger in front of the other Death Eaters.

I'm also curious about Draco's future. Dumbledore coaxed and delayed Draco from killing him, which certainly showed he wasn't sure of himself. He certainly wants revenge for his father's imprisonment, but he's scared of Voldemort and what he may do to him. I hope he commits some good deed because I think he would look ten times hotter if he were a good guy. XD

Haha me too. Draco should stop frowning such an evil way. Perhaps an innocent smile will grow on him soon, lets hope..;D

Haha I browse MuggleNet faaaar too much. It's becoming quite an addiction, really. That thing about the mind-reading could be true, so that only supports the fact that Snape could've been on Dumbledore's side? Although it was kinda stupid to kill him, it would turn the whole Order against him...
But then, maybe Snape was too distracted and didn't have enough time to notice such irregularities such as two broomsticks...?
Haha well the debate could go on, and on..;D

Well I guess the argument against your point about Severus being able to kill him already would probably be that;

A) For the first three years of Harry Potter's time at Hogwarts, Snape believes Voldemort to be dead. He therefore has the comfort of Dumbledore's support in society and sticks behind it.

B) After having realised Voldemort was alive, I'm sure Snape could have killed him but I could hazard a guess that perhaps Voldemort wanted more information on Harry Potter and his history, and his powers etc, and the best person to gain information about all that was from Dumbledore.

Therefore it is pretty likely that Voldemort instructed Snape not to kill Dumbledore but to gain information from him, before killing him. Remember, Snape always had a close relationship with Dumbledore; in HBP, when Dumbledore is forced to drink those 10 goblets of liquid that will let them have the fake horcrux, Dumbledore immediately asks for Snape.

This could mean Snape would wind his way into a close relationship with Dumbledore in order to get information from him, pass it on to Voldemort, and then kill him (end of HBP) when Voldemort had sufficient information about Harry Potter, or anything else Voldemort wanted to know that Dumbledore knew.

Fawkes also confuses me; I don't think fawkes could've brought Dumbledore back to life - tears seem to work on open wounds only, and I doubt on a body. Fawkes gave his lament at the end in sorrow that he could not help, and I think that his lament was his acceptance of Dumbledore's death, and a signal for others to accept it too. Remember, the Order always operated by 'Fawkes' Signal' so perhaps this was a sign.

ugh how do you know if your in the harry potter club i applied like 1 week ago lol


OOO I LOVE HARRY POTTER!! (books) my favorite character is Ron Weasley lol.
have you guys made any predictions of what will happend in the final book? there's rumors going around that Snape is really not the bad guy and that he killed Dumbledore because Dumbledore ordered him to. and i really dont think that snape is a bad guy because when he killed dumbledore of course he had to have hatred on his face because without hatred the killing curse would not have work and while harry was running like a maniac after him he kept blocking the unforgivable curses because snape didnt want harry to perform them i mean why should he care so much for harry performing those curses?

and J.K rowling hinted that harry might die in the 7th book i really think that would be a waste because i want harry to live and not die! (could he possibly be a horocrux that maybe instead of killing harry, voldemort tried to make him a horocrux and it some how rebonded from harry so voldemort to became a horocrux?)

oh yea I know for a fact after reading very carefully the 6th book that Dumbledore knew he was going to die because when harry found out about Malfoy being in the room of requirement he found professor trelaweney telling him about the warning signs she gave dumbledore about the "lightining struck tower" but he wouldnt listen to her

and in the fifth book while voldemort was throwing killing curses at dumbledore fawkes got in the way and took the blast of one of the killing curses so why didnt fawkes do it again?

sorry guys but ima nerd for the harry potter books

Yeah, but firstly the Horcruxes are a part of someone's soul, therefore the Horcrux, if in a living person, would echo the person's personality. If Dumbledore WERE a horcrux, then he would have to be an amazing actor because he would've fooled the whole of the wizarding world. Also, I am sure Voldemort's soul would not stoop so low as to associate with muggles and blood traitors, as well as exploiting his own plans and so on. I doubt Dumbledore is a horcrux because people would have researched into his history to write those history books in which he is mentioned, and he must have childhood friends and of course, his brother. It is not impossible, but it seems to me highly unlikely because there is far too much revealed about his past already.

And call me Lotte. :]



Hey, I'm Lotte! My predictions for the final books are a bit unclear. Although I do think, because of Rowling's plot patterns so far, that good will eventually triumph over evil (Harry Potter vs Voldemort) but there will, as always, be losses during the struggle.

I, too, do not think Snape is evil. I posted all my reasons in the past couple posts. xD

I do not think Harry will die; Rowling loves her character too much and it would be totally contradicting her whole series if she kills him because the moral seems to be good vs evil.

No, it is impossible that Harry is a horcrux because if this was so, Harry's personality would reflect Voldemort's, and it does not, and if he was indeed a horcrux, Rowling would've hinted at it and she hasn't.

A little, haha. :]

Hey Robbi, nice name.

Ah...yes, Dumbledore having a horcrux. Wow, I hadn't thought of that one before...
Well I don't think so, because if Dumbledore had a horcrux then he would still be considered alive and JK quashed that rumour herself (on MuggleNet.com, I'm trying to find the link on there). But that would be cool if he had a horcrux. I hope he does. I'd love him to still be alive but at the same time Harry needs to learn to cope...

Hi lotte im gabby nice to meet ya!

i agree that dumbledore can NOT be a horcrux or have one because in doing so he has to commit murder and like Horace Slughorn said that who would want to split there soul by commiting murder? if dumbledore did have a horocrux then its like lotte said he has to be a HUGE WONDERFUL actor to act like he is dead because remeber as long as someone has a horocrux they cant die UNLESS its destroyed.


i really hope harry does not die because that really would SUCK omg guys i cant wait for the book!!!!!


what do you guys think is the importance of harry having lily's eyes? i read it from mugglenet that there was some significance and i heard that the two way mirror would be mentioned again maybe harry could communicate with sirius? I MISS SIRIUS!!!!

I've thought that for a LONG time. (Well, since book 7)

^ yea i have a feeling that maybe harry could possibly be a horocrux that voldemort killed harrys parents to make him (harry) a horocrux. maybe more info will come up in book 7 when harry goes to Godrics Hollow

hey isnt there like a list of the harry potter club members?


i love the harry potter books and all i have read this summer are harry potter books! i cant wait for the the last one im like right now looking for any HP7 spoilers. i reallly want to know what is going to happend!


i think that in the end Peter Pettigrew might help out Harry because i just finished reading HP3 (again) and Dumbledore said that Peter will be in Harrys debt because Sirius and Lupin was going to kill him but harry got in the way. maybe in the end peter might help?

GAH

this is to the theory that {.Jelinda} posted up

there is no way that McGonagall can be a deatheater because she has to be an Occulmens to be able to hide the truth from Snape who also pratices Legilmens and Dumbledore who also in past books has hinted to have Legilmens. JK Rowling in no part of any of her books has she hinted that McGonagall pratices Occulmens or else she is highly practiced to hide the truth from Snape.

Yeah, I have a feeling Draco's going to like, come back to the good side and helping Harry kill Voldemort or something.

Also, about the prophecy.. it didn't exactly say one of them would kill the other, just "neither can live while the other survives". Couldn't someone kill Voldemort for Harry?

I'll sound like a n00b for asking this, but when Dumbledore drank the potion in the basin, was the potion the Horcrux? If so, perhaps Snape is the good guy after all. Maybe Snape HAD to use the Avada Kedavra curse on Dumbledore to kill the horcrux inside of Albus. The horcrux that Dumbledore drank must have been destroyed only if the person drinks it, then? Meh, I'm still a bit confused on that part. I know that the object they found at the bottom after the drink was downed was the FAKE horcrux though.
Anywhooo, I can NOT wait until the last book... I wonder if the prophecy can be proven wrong? What if Rowling ends up killing both of them off - both Harry AND Voldemort? Ho-hum.

15 years. I still can't believe it.

no the potion wasnt a horocrux it has to be like an object. Snape killed dumbledore most likely on dumbledores command. hence when harry said he was going to get madam pompfrey to get dumbledore healed he said no that he insisted on seeing snape (or maybe dumbledore thot that snape knew more about cursed potions i could be wrong ) the only is answer is on the last book. the prophecy most likely cant be wrong because trelaweny has not failed to make a wrong prophecy and Rowling did hint that she might just kill harry off because she does not want other authors to continue her story. but she prolly wont because she said that she does not want to recieve hate mail for killing off harry and i cant blame people i would write an angry letter right away.

OMG YOU LIKE THE WEASLEY TWINS?!? they are SOOO Cool but my favorite is Ron those red haired guys are so cool

^I don't know who you were talking to but the Weasly twins rock!

I don't want Harry to be killed but the ending would be a hundred times more dramatic if he were. I understand though about other people continuing the story. I was downloading the e-text of the fifth HP book (shhh...) and it turned out to be a whole different story altogether, written by some HP fanatic. There's also a 7th book that a fan wrote, though in the wrong context because many of the details are wrong. It's told in the viewpoint of Snape's daughter. There are probably many more out there.

MCGONAGALL IS NOT A DEATH EATER!!!!

I'm not entirely sure who I'm yelling at, but whoever you are, you're WRONG!

Gah,

yea thats what i said on my other post there is no way that Mcgonagall can be a death eater im glad we agree

I CANT WAIT FOR THE FINAL BOOK!!!!

Me too! But I have this love-hate relationship with the seventh book; I want it to come so badly, but I know it'll mean the end.

GER! i know i feel the same way its like sad that its the final book and there wont be like any more after that (based on what JK said) but i want it to come out so bad because i wanna know wat happends! i so totally want JK to sign my final book it would be SO AWESOME.



who do you guys think are going to die in the seventh book? my guesses are maybe Snape and Peter Pettigrew. possibly Draco but i hope he doesnt die.

when is the 7th book coming out ?

well mugglenet has a rumor that it might come out like 7/7/07 because its like harry potters ten year anniversary. i think its a PERFECT time because its like the seventh book and the date that it might come out is all sevens and there are 7 horocruxes and in the harry potter 6th book horace slughorn said 7 is the unlucky magical number.


errr im such a nerd.

^ actually, 7 is th emos tpowerful number, not an unlucky one.

god im a nerd.

anyway. deaths in the next book... im thinking at least a couple of weasleys. fred and george and possibly a parent.

snape OR draco, but i would say not both... NOT pettigrew, i have a feeling he'll end up helping harry in some way after the life saving episode in POA...

and i have a feeling ron or hermione will go. im rooting for hermione to pull through myself. maybe ginny? i dont know.

i seem to have killed all of the characters.

no i was talking about in Harry Potter Half blood prince when harry and dumbledore goes back to slughorns memory when tom riddle asked about the horocruxes and says what if a wizard split his soul in 7 and slughorn said it was an unlucky "magical" number" . i dont know if in real life its a lucky number or not but Rowling made it unlucky in the 6th book.


AWW i hope that the weasley twins dont die they are so cool!

Actually, I found nearly all that post funny.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything real to contribute at the moment, unless anyone happens to want to hear a related anecdote from band yesterday, but seeing as no one does, I'll just stop saying things and add reply.

Actually, I remember that scene quite well. Voldemort said that seven is the most magically powerful number. I'm not sure about lucky, but hey, why not? And that's why he asked Slughorn that since seven is the most magically powerful number, would making seven horcruxes be a wise move.

OH YEA I REMEMBER NOW lol i think i was thinking it was unlucky because he had to kill like 7 people lol.

sorry I Shot JFK you were right!

Heyy, I'm back.

Haha, I'm gone for a couple of weeks and I've completely lost on what's going on.
Lol. :]
So yeah, I agree, the Weasley twins are just like...the jokers in the HP pack of cards, really. Haha I have this really weird theory about Harry Potter just being a game of cards...dont ask me to explain.

i want the last book NOW.

i'm re-reading all the other ones. started on thursday and am now almost finished with the goblet of fire.

harry is just starting to get annoying with all his angst. grr.

LOL at the sentences I italicized. I imagined him holding his wand doing an emo pose while I read that. =x Perhaps you've read the fifth book, but his anger gets worse in this particular one.

And me too. I want the fifth movie and seventh book now.

^ Sooo looking forward to movie 5. :( And of course, book 7.

OHHH. Have any of you seen the the pic of Tonks yet?!! (I <3 Tonks).

I LOVE Tonks. I've seen all the pictures of the characters but not from the set!

Dumbledore Army!

YAY for for the DA! The girl playing Luna looks adorable.

I just want to see some Tonks/Lupin love. (Yes, I know I have to wait. )

Yess! I love both Lupin and Tonks and was ecstatic when I read that they were together! I am so looking forward to the DA meetings and the whole fiasco at the Ministry. Ooh, this is going to be so exciting! I just can't wait for it to come out in the summer of next year. I want it to come out now.

Hmm. I wonder how many people will agree with me on this theory.

I actually believe Snape is still good. He had to kill Dumbledore because of the Unbreakable Vow he made to Narcissa. Plus, if he didn't kill Dumbledore, his status as a spy would have been blown, and he wouldn't have been of any use for the seventh book. I also believe Draco's going to somehow play a part in the downfall of Voldemort.

Also, did y'all hear that two main characters are going to die? Who d'you think they'll be?

And yeah, Tonks and Lupin make a good couple. But I'm also addicted to slash, in which case Wolfstar is the best...

[If any of you know what that means, you get a cookie ^_^]

Dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but a trailer for OTTP will preview before the New Film Happy Feet. I wasnt going to go see it but I think I may go to see that. If someone already mentioned this sorry. Im so excited the new film needs to come out already.

i agree with you Snape is not bad and hes prolly going to help Harry out in the end. My views are that Dumbledore knew he was going to die thats why he told harry not to get the school nurse but to get snape and he pleaded to snape to please but he never pleaded for help...

QUOTE(Synthetic.Love @ Sep 27 2006, 9:55 PM)



actualy i belive that wormtail will help harry out to kill Voldemort, beacsue in the 3rd book harry spares his life. and dumbledore says that he knows he owes you a great debt and he knows deep inside he will have to repay it.

but who knows.
i thought ron was gonna die in the 6th book but it was actualy dumbledore

yea i agree. uhmm so many questions.

I think I'm still in the middle with Snape's intentions but I do think Wormtail and possibly Malfoy will help Harry in some way. Maybe not directly in trying to get rif od Voldemort, but they'll be useful.

The one thing that really gets me really apprehensive is trying to guess who will die and how many people. There cannot be only a single person dying and all of them cannot be Death Eaters so some main character(s) has(ve) to die. I just hope it's not anyone who is very very close to Harry.

Harry Potter is deffinatley a favorite of mine the movies & books. So excited for book 7 and the latest movie in the installment as well

I LOVE Harry Potter like 75% of my life is devoted to Harry Potter its ridiculus.