If you think I call you a kid to make me feel superior, more power to you, kid! Haha, I've already explain why, but if you want to be stubborn about it, okay, fine with me. It's now officially a crime to call someone younger than me a kid because it's offending to point out that he/she is younger than me! Hahaha, I'm such a felon!

Are you here to debate or are you here to whine on how I'm too aggressive about this topic? Is it wrong to be aggressive about a debate? By the by, why are you so aggressive towards me?

Then you might as well laugh at how I get aggressive towards topics like religion or homosexual marriages. There are always two opposing sides and to take either one lightly is to be ignorant. Now, I'm not calling you ignorant, per se, I wouldn't dare, I'm only saying that the one who claims to be right without giving any evidence is.. lame. At least in my argument, evidence can easily be found.

I'm not telling people how to live their lives, I'm telling high schoolers that they don't need cell phones like they claim they do, and I've given ample evidence and explain how you can research evidence for yourself.

I'm not assuming everyone's like me. Where are you getting that? I'm using myself as an example to say that cell phones are not a "need", simply a convenience. If you can use yourself as an example to say that you "need" cell phones, then aren't you assuming everyone is like you in needing them as well? What's the difference between your logic and mine? Can't you see that the two are parallel in reasoning?

For things in your life, I also think you can live it all the same without this urgent need for a cell phone. That is as simple as I can put it. What is a "need" to you? You need food, water, clothes. You need education (at least in this society). On the other hand, you don't need to watch TV, have an MP3 player, or cell phones. Those are wants. You life may be inconvenienced without those things, but it doesn't mean you'll be ruined without. Something that makes your life easier is defined as a convenience. We want convenieces, we can't need them, or else, I have to say this society is rather lazy.




I notice that you like answering your own questions. If I may interrupt your soliloquy, I'd like to answer that, yes, having a cell phone rings in class is disturbing. I won't get a heart attack, you know, but I will look up from taking notes or the proffessor may stop in mid sentence until the ring is stopped. That is, by definition, what a distraction is. The teacher may take up the cell phone, but the distraction was already made. You can't undo something that has happened.

Living in 2006/7 doesn't make your life more complicated than those who lived in the 1990's, or are you saying that the rest of the world's problem can't compare to yours? Who's not considering the other side now? Also, do you think that people without cell phones don't have as complicated of life as yours? I have a friend who didn't own a cell phone until her junior year in college and that's only because her boyfriend got it for her. She simply couldn't afford to own one. I hope that you don't think people who don't have cells don't have complicated lives.

Go to google, and search "using cellphones to cheat". How simple is that? Here I even did it for you, just click: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=u...phones+to+cheat

You may think that it's funny that kids take pictures of their peers naked and vulnerable and post them online, but one day, the victim may be your child or someone you care about. I hope that doesn't happen to you, but I guess that's the only way you can understand the seriousness of the problem. I guess you can call me aggressive now. I admit, I'm pretty passionate about the underdogs.

And If you're not going to quote or answer me within context, why bother doing it at all? It makes you look petty. I seriously thought you were cool a while back... Oh, I get it. Did I hurt your friends' feelings or something so you feel the need to stand up for them? Very magnanimous. Tell me who it is and I'll apologize with my head down. God forbid I hurt anyone's feelings or offend someone's sensibilities in an online debate.

If I'm just a joke to you, ignore me. But if you want to have a real debate, don't be offended by my beliefs or opinions, because that's what they are, mine, and I'm not forcing you to believe them. I am, however, forcing you to see evidence that contradicts your claims. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling you that there is evidence to prove that cell phones can be disruptive and are used for things like cheating and harming people. What you would like to do with such evidence is up to you. Let them flow out the other ear and believe in your own logic, though lacking in evidence, for all I care.

[quote name='Spirited Away' date='Nov 10 2006, 10:00 PM' post='2341565']
If you think I call you a kid to make me feel superior, more power to you, kid! Haha, I've already explain why, but if you want to be stubborn about it, okay, fine with me. It's now officially a crime to call someone younger than me a kid because it's offending to point out that he/she is younger than me! Hahaha, I'm such a felon! [/quote]

Where did I say it was a crime? I don't remember. Can you point it out for me? It's just lame. That's all. But whatever. Do what you like ;)

[quote]Are you here to debate or are you here to whine on how I'm too aggressive about this topic? Is it wrong to be aggressive about a debate? By the by, why are you so aggressive towards me? [/quote]

I thought I'd point out the obvious, for fun, but I guess it wasn't that obvious. As I said before: whatever. (my favourite word!)

[quote]Then you might as well laugh at how I get aggressive towards topics like religion or homosexual marriages. [/quote]

Cell phones in school and gay marriages are two VERY different things to debate. And religion. Do people die from carrying cell phones in class? If they're the same to you.. okay.

[quote]There are always two opposing sides and to take either one lightly is to be ignorant. Now, I'm not calling you ignorant, per se, I wouldn't dare, I'm only saying that the one who claims to be right without giving any evidence is.. lame. [/quote]

I've given you plenty of evidence. It's your own mistake that you don't want to acknowledge it.
[quote]I'm not assuming everyone's like me. Where are you getting that? I'm using myself as an example to say that cell phones are not a "need", simply a convenience. [/quote]

Which is almost saying that everyone's like you; and just because you didn't need a cell phone, you assume that every high schooler doesn't need one. Am I wrong? I might be. I'm just a stupid high school kid, after all. What the hell do I know?

[quote]If you can use yourself as an example to say that you "need" cell phones, then aren't you assuming everyone is like you in needing them as well? What's the difference between your logic and mine? Can't you see that the two are parallel in reasoning? [/quote]

There's a difference. I'm not using myself as an example that everybody needs a cell phone, whereas you seem to be using yourself as an example that we DON'T need cells. I've said that MOST high school students don't NEED cell phones, but there are SOME that do. Is that the same like your argument?

[quote]For things in your life, I also think you can live it all the same without this urgent need for a cell phone. That is as simple as I can put it. What is a "need" to you? You need food, water, clothes. You need education (at least in this society). On the other hand, you don't need to watch TV, have an MP3 player, or cell phones. Those are wants. You life may be inconvenienced without those things, but it doesn't mean you'll be ruined without. Something that makes your life easier is defined as a convenience. We want convenieces, we can't need them, or else, I have to say this society is rather lazy. [/quote]

A need for me is something that will make my life hard if I don't have it. For instance, I need pen and paper in class. Sure, I could do without them, but wouldn't I find it hard? For me, that's a need. I hope this example works for you.

[quote]I notice that you like answering your own questions. If I may interrupt your soliloquy, I'd like to answer that, yes, having a cell phone rings in class is disturbing. I won't get a heart attack, you know, but I will look up from taking notes or the proffessor may stop in mid sentence until the ring is stopped. That is, by definition, what a distraction is. The teacher may take up the cell phone, but the distraction was already made. You can't undo something that has happened. [/quote]

Oh man, somebody's phone rings in class - big deal. They won't do it again if the teacher TAKES the phone, I'm certain. What kind of an idiot would? Do cell phones go off really that often that you make it sound like such a drastic and horrid problem?

[quote]Living in 2006/7 doesn't make your life more complicated than those who lived in the 1990's, or are you saying that the rest of the world's problem can't compare to yours? Who's not considering the other side now? Also, do you think that people without cell phones don't have as complicated of life as yours? I have a friend who didn't own a cell phone until her junior year in college and that's only because her boyfriend got it for her. She simply couldn't afford to own one. I hope that you don't think people who don't have cells don't have complicated lives. [/quote]

Lifestyles in 1990 are different than what we live now. It is 16/17 years later. Do you really expect it to be the same? Is it the same? And no, I'm not saying those who don't have cell phones don't have "complicated" lives; I'm just saying that I need my cell phone so that my life's a shitload easier. Is this so terrible? I can't afford a cell phone either; my brother got me mine and pays for it, simply because he doesn't like it when he doesn't know where I am late at night. I think I already mentioned this. Plus, my parents actually insist that I have my cell phone all the time with me.

[quote]You may think that it's funny that kids take pictures of their peers naked and vulnerable and post them online, but one day, the victim may be your child or someone you care about. I hope that doesn't happen to you, but I guess that's the only way you can understand the seriousness of the problem. I guess you can call me aggressive now. I admit, I'm pretty passionate about the underdogs. [/quote]

Let me stop you there. What's the difference between taking a picture with your phone and taking a picture with a camera? Because I'm pretty sure it has happened with cameras as well. Should they be banned as well?.. That's invalid.

[quote]And If you're not going to quote or answer me within context, why bother doing it at all? It makes you look petty. I seriously thought you were cool a while back... Oh, I get it. Did I hurt your friends' feelings or something so you feel the need to stand up for them? Very magnanimous. Tell me who it is and I'll apologize with my head down. God forbid I hurt anyone's feelings or offend someone's sensibilities in an online debate. [/quote]

I've answered pretty much all of your questions. Hence the breaking down of your posts. And who are those "friends" you're speaking of? I'm not following you here. Damn, do I feel stupid. Who am I standing up for? I'm just pointing out how ridiculous this debate is. It's really nobody's business if I carry a cell phone when it doesn't disturb anyone. Seriously. Think about it. I'm gonna stop here, because this is just a waste of time; it's like beating a dead horse, and nobody's going to change their mind. I think I need my cell phone, this year at least (as well as last year) because it becomes way too hectic otherwise.

The end :)

P.S. I don't know why the quotes didn't come out right. I hate it when it happens.

you've used "you kids" several times throughout this debate. if it wasn't to talk down to the other debaters, then you really need to keep your words in check. we're in a debate, we are all equals. you using "kids" automatically makes everyone opposed to your opinion younger and "dumber". i don't know how old you are but you're in college so I would assume you are in your twenties. you are barely that much older than high students so step off your soapbox. you are disrespecting anyone who argues against you by saying, you kids. your tone and words suggest you dismiss their arguments as silliness.

it's the same thing as the old days when black men were called boys.

my cellphone is always with me but if i forget it, it doesn't really matter. what does matter is what happens on fridays and other days before breaks. i go out with my friends and stay out quite late into the night. my parents call me several times to check up on me. also, when it's exceptionally bad weather or something dangerous happened near my neighborhood, my grandparents call frantically to make sure i'm okay. if my cellphone is not for my own safety reassurances, it's for my family's. it is also reassuring to myself when i have a cellphone to contact people outside of school. the subway is extremely unpredictable and it extremely helpful to have a cellphone on hand to call home.

they also want to take away iPods and other mp3 items. this i strongly am against. cellphones i can understand and if it does happen, i will eventually find a way to cope. however, ipods mean no harm. if a student is blantantly using it in class, it's the teacher's duty to call it out. i have an hour commute and several free periods. i use it solely to keep me entertained outside of class. it is a senseless rule because iPods pose no danger to my or anyone else's safety.

Spirited Away, i agree that ringing cellphones could be a distraction but you seem to have a exaggerated view of what really happens in school. it happens once or twice over th span of several months. often times, it barely is noticed. i can only remember one time that the a ringing phone became a really big distraction. it rung several times and the teacher openly yelled at the student for five minutes. once again, cell phones are understandably distracting but to what degree?

i know plenty of people who abuse their privileges. i've done it once or twice. but i usually strictly abide by the rules and never had my cellphone go off in class. i am not going to be punished because some asswipe can't stop texting his girlfriend in class. i've done nothing wrong and i should not have to suffer collective punishment due to the actions of a small percentage of my population.

Okay, if I miss a point, let me know and I'll get to it, but here's the deal, Kids. For the most part,"you kids" were not meant to target debators in a mean way, it's meant to generalize kids, that is, until folks want me to point out their age and when they started making a big fuss about me using the word. Look back several pages and you'll see that I used "kids" in the same manner as everyone else up to the point someone started to whine about it. In fact, I even referred MYSELF (in high school) as a kid. But in response to the nagging, I changed my tone because I get peeved at people for digging too much into something that wasn't there in the first place.

My soapbox was already occupied when I got there *sigh*.

Whites called Blacks to be cruel for no reason; I started calling people kids to be mean in response to nonsense nagging.

I hate to have to explain myself here, but if you're going to pick on me, at least be sure of why you are picking on me. Can we please get over it because I won't stop calling people kids anyway. But, if someone's going to have a heart attack over it, I'll curb it down to save a life. Maybe I'll say "students" in stead, but make sure you all know that I mean K-12 students.

Angelina Taylor, if you think it's lame, then yeah, I'm lame. I think I was born that way, but I'm not going to cry over spilled milk. I was being sarcastic, btw, about the felony, because you're making it out to be a crime to call you a kid. It's like how a kid cries a storm when he/she trips over a rock. The physical pain doesn't hurt much, but pride does so he/she screams and yells over a little scrape.

You're pointing out the obvious that I'm aggressive over this topic to have fun. Okay, I'm going to point out that you're "aggressive" about being called a kid. It seems traumatizing for you, so I guess I need to stop, at least, where you're concerned. *But you're right, it is a little fun*.

What evidence have you presented. Look at my links and see for yourself how cell phones can be problematic in school. I'm not pulling this out of my butt and making you sniff it. These are points many have brought up before our little run-in.

The most popular argument here is: phone rings, big deal, get over it. How I look at it and how teachers look at it: disrespect and disruptive to everyone. Endless_Symphony, while I'm sure that it happens more frequently than you've stated, I'll consider your "stats" for one moment and agree with you that it happens once or twice every six months. Now, consider that it happens that way ONLY because teachers forbid them and kids are afraid that it will be taken up. What happens when there is no rule against cell phones? No consequences when it rings in class. To parallel, what happens when you (generalized here because I'm not sure what you would do) have no speed limit on the freeway? More than likely, you'll speed if it's convenient for you to do so. Just like that, you'll let your phone rings in class because your life's too "complicated" to put on hold.

While you think I'm exaggerating, I think you're underestimating how often this happens. A lot of what I'm hearing is, "it happens once in a blue moon in *my* class", but your experience must be amplified by all students across the nation to be more precise.

Eh, we're not talking about having a cell to use outside of school, but if you mean that you turn it off during school and only use it once you're out, I can respect that, you all have convinced me of it. The point is though, if there are STRICT rules, the majority of kids will not bring their phones to class (or hide them fairly well) for fear of the consequences. Bring one to school, if you (generalized you, again to be sure) must because of your "complicated" lives, but don't be an ass and bring it to class. Whereas, if cell phones are allowed anywhere, you'll be hearing them while you're testing (I can give testimonials), while you're eating, pooping, concentrating on a good book in the library, during lecture, during assemblies or another person's speech.... etc. The classroom, all in all, just isn't the place for one.

You call one link evidence? Please. Oh, okay, you win - because you copied and pasted a link! :) Congrats!

I said I'm done with this "debate". I'm going to carry my cell phone whether people like it or not, because it's my business since it doesn't disturb anyone. And my "complicated" life (really, I won't even say anything about that) can stay "complicated" and not become total chaos.

Ciao :)

Goes to show that you didn't even bother looking at the opposition's argument. Is this really a debate to you or is it just a mean to rant? Again, who won't consider the other side here? Look at the link again. It leads to a list of googled websites that might do a better job of convincing you of the points I've argued than me. I resorted to them because it's hard to persuade someone who already has a grudge against me and is predisposed to disagreeing with everything. I even did the work of researching for you, the least you could have done was glance at the content.

See you came to this debate with steely resolution to ignore the opposition. I don't see why you bother to post anything in the first place. Oh wait, you posted mainly to point out that I was calling you a kid. It's not my fault you can't grasp generalizations.

I completely understand that you feel a *need* for a cell phone. Sometimes we get so used to conveniences that we become desperate without one. Again, that is something I can relate with, but I cal also say that you can do just fine without one. People with more complicated lives than yours have done just so.

Lastly, I have to ask this again. Does everyone who has argued here thinks that those before them had no way to solve complicated lifestyles without cellphones?


Ah, work time.

Wow, you never stop, do you? It goes on and on. Same points over and over. You really like it this much?

I looked at the "links" (one link) you gave me, about "kids" using cell phones to cheat. Look what it says on one website:

"Does your child tell you that they must have the text messaging feature on their phone. Or that they also need to have a camera on their phone as well. Well as a parent you may feel that you are just getting your child a cell phone to keep in touch with you or in case of an emergency. But the reality of the situation is that most teens are using their cell phones to cheat. There are many schools that will allow your child to bring their cell phone to school but not to the classroom.

Obviously teachers have a pretty good reason why they do not want the cell phone brought into the classroom. There are however things that you can do as a parent to help the situation. For example you will not give a cell phone to a first grader, since they are not capable of handling the responsibility that comes along with the phone. Therefore you should really make sure your child is mature enough to carry the cell phone, and that they know why you have given them one.

How exactly do they use the phones to cheat? Well its not as complex as you may think. All they have to do is take a picture of the information from their text books with their phone save it and use it during the test. There are many ways that your child can use the phone to cheat. But there are other ways to help keep your child honest. Since the purpose of the phone is to contact you and for you to contact them, there is really no need for text messaging.

If you want to tell them something and they don't answer you can leave a voice mail, and the same goes for them. Also they do not need to take pictures with their phone. This will definitely lead to more problems. If they really want to take pictures you can buy them a camera. There are also phones that come with a lock feature, which will allow you to lock their phone so that they are unable to make phone calls to any number another than yours. This will also help to keep your bill low.

If you choose to allow your child to have all of these features on their phone, then you need to cooperate with the teacher. Since most teachers know that the phones are used to help kids cheat and chat with one another it only makes sense that they do not want them in their classrooms. Instead of arguing with the teacher you can help by showing your support for them. The bottom line is your child needs to be responsible for their actions, and should understand that using their phone to cheat is unacceptable. You should also make it very clear that there will be consequences for this type of behavior."

I bet you didn't even read that one. It was the first one to pop out. As far as my reading skills go, I think they said that a first grader shouldn't have a cell phone. I'm in grade 12. They also say that your "child" should be mature enough to carry a cell phone. My parents treat me pretty much like an adult, since I'm three months away from being one.

If people were so concerned about cheating with cell phones, they would ban them from the classroom when there is a test. Which, I think, some schools do. But I don't have extensive knowledge on the subject.

You're ignoring something else. The main methods for cheating are NOT cell phones. They're little cheat notes, writing on the desk, etc. I don't think cell phones should be banned on the assumption that the most brutal cheating is done with cell phones. That's just lame.

The next link that popped talks about people in KOREA cheating with cell phones. I thought we were talking about North America. I might be wrong, though.

Another site talks about people in England using cell phones to cheat. It also includes different types of cheating. For instance with a water bottle, notes in a pantyhose, notes on one's hand and "notes posted on a nearby bulletin board disguised as a harmless announcement" (http://historymike.blogspot.com/2006/03/using-cell-phones-to-cheat-on-exams.html)

So, following your logic, do you think water bottles should be banned as well? How about pantyhose?

Why can't you just accept the fact that people can carry their cell phones on their own (for a lack of a better word) expense? Why can't you leave it alone? Seriously. It's none of your business whether I carry my cell phone with me when it doesn't disturb you.

Leave it alone? What the heck? Isn't this a debate? Why can't you leave it alone that I don't like kids having cell phones in class? Seriously, think about it. And yes, I like debates. If you haven't noticed, I've been here since the debate forum started and it's the forum I visit the most. So, DUH, I like it "that much".

Why bring out new points when the same old points are yet to be settled? It would be like me asking about your life and then turning to talk to someone else before you even respond.

Now you're going to pick on the work "links" though I already explained that it is a list of googled links that you refused to look for before hand.

I'm glad you're finally able to look through the googled links. You only mentioned that the article wrote about first graders, but in the paragraph before, it states that many teens use phones to cheat. Wow, selective reading much? It "popped out" because it was the only thing you were looking for. It's looking more and more like you are the only one who's not considering the other side.

Your parents treat you like an adult and so you speak for all your peers? Wow, so most kids in school are as responsible and mature as you? The world is really changing, I must have been living on Mars the last 4 years.

By the by, since we were on the topic of the word "kids" earlier, just because lawmakers say that you can do certain things when you're 18 doesn't make you an adult necessarily. It's funny how I hear kids say I'm an adult now that I'm 18, yet their parents still pay for their car notes, their insurance, their credit card bills, their tuition. Maybe you're not one of them, but if you are allowing your parents to do any of the listed, you're not quite there yet. I'm not saying that it makes you out to be a child, you wouldn't be that at 18, but you shouldn't be called adult either. *Please NOTE that from "it's funny..." onward, "you" is generalized, and may be substituted with "one". Fair warning before someone brings in a lynch mob*

(Ungeneralized) You don't follow my logic at all so your question doesn't even make sense. Water bottles can't take pictures of naked people in the locker rooms, and they certainly don't ring in class. Can't you tell the difference? If you mean to say a camera can do the job, I'm afraid not. A camera isn't as subtle and convenient as a cellphone.

... I'm not ignoring the fact that kids can cheat without cellphones, it is something obvious. What you're ignoring is that cellphones can be a cheating tool, which is one of the reasons why they should be banned (in the classroom at least).

Admit it, you "like it" as much as I do, or else, why do you keep coming back? Hahaha. It doesn't seem like you're stopping anytime soon either.

Ok. Keep biting at it. I'm sure some results will come out of it. Haha - let's beat the dead horse over and over. I honestly don't see what we're going to achieve by arguing over this because it's pretty much pointless, but ok.



I've already responded to them. That's why I said over and over...



Oh yes, you're right. Actually that was the first thing to make me laugh. So imagine, I read the article, and it bluntly says somethig like, "But teens use their cell phones to cheat." How ignorant is that? What a stupid generalization. Seriously, out of all the people I know (and I know a LOT of people), nobody has ever told me that they've cheated with a cell phone. Maybe it isn't problem here in Toronto as much as it is in other cities/towns. And please, I'm considering all kinds of other sides. However, none of them seem to convince me that it's the most terrible thing to own a cell phone.



Nope, I speak merely for myself, but that doesn't mean that my example doesn't apply to other people. Out of the top of my head, I can name a few people who are as mature as I am (most are friends) - Nelia, Tanya, Damyan, Peter, Anna, Cailin, etc. Don't let me go on. I'm trying to prove to you that there are bratty, little "kids" who do need cell phones.



Let's see. I don't own a credit card, I don't have car insurance because I don't want to get a license yet, I have no car (obviously), and I get full scholarship for my music school. I'm also planning on getting scholarships next year for university, as well as OSAP (borrowing money from the government). So I'm not "allowing" my parents to do any of the things you mentioned. I'm lost - why shouldn't I be called an adult when I turn 18? If other, less mature people are called adults by the time they're 18, why shouldn't I?

And how is this relevant to the debate? Let's stay on topic.




Did you read the paragraph I copied/pasted for you? They explain all the ways parents can prevent this from happening - get the child a cell without a camera and without a text option. What's the problem after that?



? ... the hell? I just explained to you that I'm well aware that people cheat with cell phones and that it's not the only technique. Damn, am I going crazy? Did I not say that? I don't have time to go through my old post. Sorry.



I just think it's amusing that such a topic is so important to you. And I don't like leaving anything off before it's finished. And you obviously don't want it to be finished.

P.S. By the way, how old are you? 21/22? You're not that much different than me.

I'll have to get back to you fully when I get home tonight, but I am 22. Wait til you're 22 and tell me that you think 18 year-olds are the same as you. I know it doesn't seem like 4 years matter much, but you'll see for yourself when you get there. I admit though, there are a couple of young people in here who are pretty mature for their age.

I keep "biting" at it because you keep biting me. Controversies are rarely resolved, yet you expect me to stop debating this one? Umm...

^ Most of my friends are older than me (in their twenties), and they've all told me that they pretty much view me as an adult. My boyfriend's 8 years older than me, and there's nothing odd about it - we get along perfectly. I'm not a 22-year-old, but I'm not much different either. At least that's what I think based on people's views. But it doesn't matter.

And I'm going to stop here because it's never going to go anywhere. The main points have been hit - and nobody's going to change their mind. It's the same thing as debating God (God forbid), politics or abortion. Never gets anywhere and it's basically a waste of time.

So I'll stop. I'll really stop. Promise :) Gotta go, break's over.

Fae, i accept that problems are caused when cell phones go off in classes. This is unfortunate.

However, I put it to you that the convenience offered to students and teachers who own cell phones, accompanied by the fact that the vast majority of people DO put their phones on silent or vibrate, and therefore the majortiy of classes go undisturbed simply outweigh teh disadvantages.