i really see no reason to believe in him. there are so many arguments to his non existence. come on, you religious fanatics. bring it on.

Ok it may sound like blah blah blah but I think its the same thing for God or Gods depending on your religion. Humans fear to be alone because being alone leaves everything up to chance and in sense that means we are just a lucky mistake. God is the ultimate mystery, next to life after death. So the less answers the better it is because without a god to believe in people have nowhere to put their faith in a lucky chance.

I guess you can say that is my viw on it.

I'm only going to say one thing on this topic because I have got in on heated discussions that got me kicked off forums...

There is no reason why christians should have blind faith... there have been roman historians who have written down the account of Jesus... They wrote everything that happen... There have been historians during that time that never met Jesus but felt the earth shake and saw the sky get dark the day of the crucifixion... There are so many things in the world that show there is a God... but its up to you to believe it...

Until one can discover and prove every mystery there is about this universe, one does not have the right to mock or deny the beliefs of others. No one can prove that God exists, but no one can prove that he doesn't exist either. Then comes the question "what does 'existence' actually mean?" Did a sound that was never heard ever "exist"? Would this Universe "exist" if nothing was intelligent enough to understand it's "existence"? Surely God does exist as long as people believe that he does.

I personally don't believe in God because there's no prove that he exists, to me that is. But for the people who choose to believe, then he does exist.

i agree with Winter ... i don`t believe he exists `cause there`s been no proof ... sorry

Ok I always take a defensive position so here goes

Things that need to be proved
Love
Wind

Ok those are the two easiest ones to relate what I mean. Neither is tangible, yet you believe in them. Why? cause they are what you feel and that is the only proof that anyone has to either. For some people both of those things are just further proof of god....after all what makes the wind blow? What makes the heart beat faster when seeing someone you love? Probably through out the course of my CB lifetime you will see me quote books a lot. Here is another from Drizzit Do'Urden that I think is relavent to this topic :)


What we take for granted as everyday happenings can be looked at through another light as magic and yet another as science and yet another as the hand of god/s. Isn't science just another religion anyway with a different type of god?

ok enough of my ramblings

I really don't think "Because there is no proof" is a valid reason for not believing in God. Most of science doesn't have a "proof". I'm not saying it's right or wrong to not believe in God, I'm just saying that I want a more convincing reason from the people don't believe in God or some other greater being.

But tk, there is obvious proof found by scientists of today that evolution is not that far from the truth. Also, how can you credit the intelligence of Romans back then? THEY BURNED DOWN THE GREEK LIBRARY! Heh. Kidding...except...they reall did. Onto my point - they're not as smart as we were today. Those accounts could've been simply minor things...it could've been coincidence that the sky got dark after the crucifixion (this is directed towards duke). Furthermore, scientists have used isotopes to calculate how old the earth truly is - they're saying it's about four and a half billion years old opposed to the Bible's ten thousand years or whatever it was.

Oh good point Kathleen. Me and my friend from BACK in the day had to argue why Science can not get rid of God for our sunday school teacher cause we both said something dumb to her lol but yea in the end the scripture is vague about the creation of the world. The bible says God created the Earth in seven days..........ok granted this is a bit of a stretch but who is to say what 1 day is to god? I mean our lifetimes could pass in the blink of an eye for someone who can create universes. And as my teahcer said....God works in mysterious ways....so who is to say that science isnt a way for god to console those who don't believe in him but need to believe in something else?


These are just theories of course. There is in the end only one way we will ever know for sure and I am FAR from ready to find out the answer that way.

Hmm, that's quite true - my biology teacher pointed that out. I don't think anyone said anything about that. Good job. BUT, why didn't they just say four billion years, huh?

Back in the day a million dollars was a huge sum of money because people just didnt think a billion was a realistic number and that was what a hundred years ago or something little like that.....now imagine over 2000 years ago where the range of living was like 50 years or something like that. Besides they needed a way to make it so people would worship god and if they had to say "And on the 4 billionth year he rested and it was his day" I doubt many people would be anywhere near as religious.


of course it could all be a merchants trick to get people to offer up money and buy things like "Holy" objects. Thats just another theory

Scientific proofs are assumptions based on experimental evidence. Further experiments are conducted either to reinforce the evidence for the initial assumption or to find a contradiction to it. Newton's Laws of motion was all there was to physics until Albert Einstein came up with relativity. Newton's Laws are all we need for everyday life, but Einstein's new ideas have given us a new way of understanding phenomena in the universe that Newton's Laws could not explain. The composition of neucleons being quarks, the nuclear strong force, black holes - they're all assumptions based on experimental evidence. There is no concrete "proof" in science. Mathematics is different - mathematical proof is absolute. Once something is proven in math, it never changes.

About evolution, though it is not far from the truth as you say, there are some evidences against it. Humans seem to evolve from certain regions in Africa and at the same time in regions of China. The chances of the same type of species evolving in completely different parts of the world are very slim.

Anyway, "proving" that evolution is true doesn't make a difference to whether God exists or not. Whatever that is written on the Bible is by humans and much of it is just human imagination. The facts are not important - the important thing is the belief that there's something "above" us that is so beautiful that words cannot explain and that someday we can see it.

Wow that was seriously touching. it all comes down to one word.....Faith....and no matter wether you call your religion christianity,buddism, or science in the end it al revolves around how much faith you put into them

I was never good in science, please clear this up for me just a bit: physics use math? If math is absolute, then shouldn't physics be the same?

Or, is it how math is applied that matters?

Um, okay back to topic.


*Nods*. Human way of thought was different back then because they did not have the knowledge of science that we have today. If a phenomenon happened thousands of years ago and people thought it was an act of God, who's to say that it wasn't science that caused such phenomenon?

If I go back in time with a flashlight in hand, could I be a messager of God because I can create light with a simple switch? I think people will assume so.

What I mean is: could God be confused with science back then?

And in a thousand years will the science of today be looked at in the reverse sense. WHo is to say that discoveries today arent the hand of god working in some fashion?

And who's to say that these things called science, are actually science, and God had nothing to do with it?

I'm confused.

I'm going off a little on this subject...So bare with me.

Most people believe the universe is endless. An infinite amount of space and time. Now, if there is infinity, there will be an infinite amount of possiblities. (This isn't necessarily an alternate universe, but an infinite number of worlds with tiny changes in the(our) universe.) I can only imagine with such an amount of space, that there be a being behind it all. Maybe not a creator, but a being of more power than man could ever posses. Why? Because its in the math. There has to be one of everything, because there is an infinite number of possiblities. Now, it seems strange to say that there is one of everything, but for every thought a person has, I could only imagine somewhere, in the vastness of the infinite universe, there has to be something that is the essence of the formentioned thought. And in theory, if the universe is infinite, and every thought has substance(essence) then there would not be one God, but multiple Gods. In short, I have to believe that there is something/someone else out there, becuase of the infinite possiblities. But then again, you have to believe in infinity before you can believe in anything I just said

Me ME! I believe in infinity. The earth's circular rotation and the circular rotation of other planets around the Sun are examples of infinity, too, I think. What's up with that?

Anyway, as there could be possibility of God's existence because of infinity, there could be a possibility that God does not exist either.

Thats a really good point also...kind of brings up the books of Myst to mind. If you ever read them that is. But yea math is the only undeniable prove fact........but it was made up by people so even though it is undeniabley 100% proven in the end it is just another theory. But I do agree with you. I just try my best to look at every point of view from all 360%.

All sciences use mathematics, but they are not the same. Mathematics in physics is used to model the "real" world as best fit as possible so we can have a better understanding of the universe and what goes on around us. However, this model is never perfect and it is the physicists' job to improve on this. Stephen Hawking claims that someone in the near future will be able to find and prove this "perfect model" of the universe. Once that is done, then we might be able to scientifically prove the existence or non-existence of God.

There was a topic about ghosts - do they exist or not? There's experimental evidence that parallel universes may be interacting with each other (electron diffraction expoeriment), but that is just an intelligent assumption made so that the observed phenomena can be explained (i.e. it is a mathematical model trying to "match" the real world). Whether this has anything to do with ghosts, no one knows yet.



There's enough things we don't know about this universe today to still believe that God may be responsible for things that happen around us. Not just complicated things such as quantum physics, but we don't understand seemingly simple things like emotions - such as love or hatred. How would science as we know it today explain love? Somethings might be better off not explained at all. It is up to each individual person to believe what he/she wants, but I don't think people that don't believe in God have any grounds to criticise people that do.

Religion is about having faith, regardless of whether or not there is proof.

Right, but not only religion, concepts are about faith as well.

okay, im gonna start something new. if i go murder some child, why should i have to go to hell for it? after all, god is perfect. god knew that i was going to kill that little kid. if he knew it was going to do it, then i couldn't have possibly changed my mind. if i changed my mind and let the child live, god would have been wrong. and god is perfect. so why should i go to hell for my 'mistakes'? i shouldn't. whoever thought up god should have thought a little harder.

hey nick, this is britt, do you really wanna get me started?

i don't know if i believe in god because the idea of him is so fake..i mean one person who created every single person on the planet and created the entire universe, i know i should believe it but i don't..maybe i do i dunno anymore.

also what i don't get is if god is supposed to forgive everyone of their sins then why is there even a hell?

I can explain it all...but you have to honestly wanna know. If you ask questions like that and really sincerely wanna kno the answers, read the bible, then it will all make sense.

If there were a solid middle ground, then I would be standing right on it.

Why, you ask? Because since I have been raised in a christian background, I have the entire god thing engrained in my mind, but I was never SERIOUSLY religious, so its not that overwhelming.

I mean, i believe the bible and everything, I just really don't like the entire book of Genesis. I'm strongly one way for evolutionism, but my idea is that if God didn't create it, then it at least HELPED us to become who we are now, as the human race. I mean, think about it- how could humans suddenly evolve from neanderthals to the extreme dominant race in such a short time? (this is looking at a universal standpoint, where a few thousand years is nothing compared to the billions of years the universe has been in existence). And so on. I really don't think I need to talk more about this.

On another note, evolution and phylogeny. Seeing as that 97% of our DNA is the same as chimpanzees and they even have a small degree of intelligence as us, how exactly did we evolve from the chimps and how did they stay as they are? Whatever happened to homo erectus, neanderthals? Shouldn't they still be alive too if chimps are? What allowed the chimps to survive with their current form? Why is there an unbridged gap (as of modern day) between us and chimpanzees? I believe this is where God comes in.


whoo. I love a good debate.

disproving what is written on the Bible does not disprove God. Like I've said, the Bible was written by HUMANS, not God. If the people who wrote the Bible believed in hell, then let it be so. God is whatever the human mind wants it to be - God could be male, female, genderless. As long as the human imagination has no limits, than there will be no limits on what God can be or do. Can you picture 4 dimensions in your head? How about 10? or 23? Whatever God is, it's beyond whatever you can picture in your mind, but isn't it assuring to feel that there is something that is just beyond our level of intelligence?

We are all created by God, and there's God. Why?

Well, a lot of you might have think that we are form from monkeys. Yes a lot of people believe in me, but have you(people who believe in we are from monkeys) found any half monkey, half human creature? Well, if you can find me one tell me.

^ This statement can easily prove that there's a God, because we are not form from monkeys.

we were genetically mutated from monkeys over many years, so the process was gradual. it didnt go BAM theres your human, no more monkey.

yes, but check my post, the second large part of it. That's my argument against evolution being the only factor in the creation of humans.


EDIT: fine, here it is. think about that.

Can you find me a half monkey, half human creature?

i told you long, read my post. there isnt any because we slowly mutated from them. and they we are much superior in intelligence because our brain is similar, but not the same to them. we developed language and a culture, and went on from there. do me a favor, and read darwin.

WHY don't you people read what i said? grarrrrrr

How did the evolution stop?
In the Bible it's written clearly that God created human on the 6th day.

and how did it start?




sorry for the double posting.

I believe in God. He has always been there. He gives me the choice to make the decisions i make wether good ones or bad ones. He is a loving God for the fact that he shows us mercy and grace. Mercy is Him not giving us what we do deserve for our actions and grace is Giving us things we do not deserve. He is real. I have proof, you not might believe my proof but it is true. God has brought me through alot of things, without him I would be another one of these pregnant girls running around my school. He has given me so many miracles I cannot even reacconut them for you. God is like the wind, there but you can't see Him even though some poeple might believe he isn't there he still is. No matter what. I can't even explain everything I feel about God because it is unexplainanle. He is the reason that I am who I am today. He is the reason I am alive. He is the reason for everything there is.



What you have wrong is that we go to hell for our mistakes. You don't go to hell for your mistakes. When you become a Christian(accepting Christ into your heart because you believe he dided on the cross for all of our sins and you want the holy spirit to live in you and direct your paths) your name is written in the Book of Life. When God writes your name in it it is like inl you can't erase it. No matter what you do you will not go to hell. That is why God is a merciful God. Jesus died on the cross for all our sins because he loved us so much and in that he will never forget us. God even loves those who hate him and it is never to early to accept Him in your life. All I can say is God has always been there and will always be there.

asexual cellular reproduction? about four billion years ago. molecules could reproduce and replicate themselves, eventually creating the first cell, which in turn creates the first animal.

^^Or God made them

that's true. Ever hear of Stanley Miller? He made an experiment where he emulated early earth's chemical atmospheric conditions, with no organic compounds. After he performed the experiment, he discovered something strange: amino acids were being created. As this builds, some sort of mutation would have created one-celled creatures (____ --EDIT- sorry.)and the stone rolls on.

i believe i said in turn. eventually.

What confuses me is how people can believe science and one cell forms in to an animal then into a human and gases composing and making the earth and what not, but people find it hard to believe in God

I believe it because I can see it. I can look into a microscope and see it happening, while God is no where to be seen...

Then again, I'm not saying that God doesn't exists because he cannot be seen, but usually I believe things that have been experimented many times and I can trust that if I perform the same experiement it will yield the same result.

Ok, I'm not a religious person, but I suppose there is a "God." Who am I to say that he doesn't exist. I don't know for sure. And besides, if he gives hope to billions of people, then why not let there be a "God"?

I believe in God/Jesus. Know why, because He came into my life. Something that doesnt exist doesnt just come into your life. What Roxanne said, I totally agree with. Faith is about believing when you can't see. It's not a coincidence that so many people feel a change in their life, and feel that it's Jesus coming to them. A sad thing though is that the main cause of atheism in the world is Christians. So many Christians that give a false message of having to be good to have God in your life. Or having to be a perfect person to be a Christian. None of that is true. I pray for you guys.

why do you find it hard to believe? we have proof.
there isnt a god, he gives hope to billions of people, and they're wrong, they're sheep.

you can't look into a microscope and see evolution, or even see all cells and molecules. It is like geometry in a sense, it is all made up



proof? you base your decisions on what others have said before you so how do you know that is true? I am a sheep it says it in the bible, The followers of Christ are sheep, and he is our shepard. He doesn't just give me hope he gives me truth, and comfort and so many other things

and if evolution was real and there was a "big bang" things wouldnt be in order. planets would be tilted. an example is if you threw pieces of a pusszle with letters on them on the ground. they wouldnt automatically fit together. most of them wouldnt make words. some would be upside down. thats why there is a hand that puts the peices of the puzzle together, just as the world was made.

I'm not saying that I see evolution, but what do you mean I can't see cells... what were those things then in biology class I wonder?

Evolution can be seen through archeological findings.

Geometry is made up?