but abstinence can't really be proposed as birth control. sure it prevents birth, but having separation of male and females would prevent birth too.

it's like saying that the best way to not get in a car accident is to never get in a car. true, but impractical.

and we have to see sex as an inevitability of life. chances are most all people will have sex. most will have sex before they're married. most of them, in 30 or so years, will have never had a class about contraceptives.

sounds like an excellent way to maintian the society. tones of unwanted births, overflowing foster care system. no abortions because you don't want the kid...

george bush wants to promote the american family by banning gay marriage. good for him. but he's shooting himself in the foot by raising a generation oblivious to contraceptives, and tons of single mothers.

sounds like a great american family.

(the point- teach contraceptives at age 11, then ban abortions for simply if you don't want the child. dont' not teach, and ban aboritons.)

I used the pill and condom and still got preggo. I have kids now but I did consider abortion. I'm pro choice. I consider such a decision to be a hard one and do not think that it is selfish if you abort. Cause it can be seen the other way... you can be selfish for keeping the child. How? Well because u know the 'child' could have had a better, happier life if you had waited but you didn't and that is selfish too! Why does everyone keep mentioning abortions in cases of young girls.

Yes! Thanks for mentioning this! Marrried women who already have kids get abortions too!

yeah i was gonna say that....

if young people or adults that don't want children because they can't support it want an abortion, really let them have it. If the girl dies because of abortion (if something wrong happened) then it's a lesson learned. Punishments can come in any form, from death, to forming an unwanted life form in you... even though i strongly disapprove of teen sex, it's their life and if they want to see the punishment without using appropriate protection then they really should think before they act. Abortion is someone's private choice. We don't have the right to take it away from them and since some people are stubborn enough to create babies at a young age i guess abortion is really needed. I mean are we really gonna have to believe everything the bible/priests/church says? there are some people who aren't religious and we shouldn't take out abortion just because the church says it's murder. If a girl wants her unborn baby dead, she wants it dead. We don't have the right to just force them to take in a baby like that.

As for married couples or couples that live together and yet unmarried, abortion is (like i said) their choice and we (like i said..again) have no right to take away that decision.

besides... don't you wanna lower overpopulation? no matter how many people die, every living thing will die anyways. so if that life form is unwanted, then let it die

Stop beating the dead horse, for Christ's sake.

but the horse just won't die...

Excuse me, so if I want my neighbor dead, I want it dead....and that's okay? No, that's called murdering and it's NOT a right that somebody should have. About forcing them to take the baby in? They don't have to. There are a lot of couples out there that for some reason or another can't have babies and would love to adopt one. In my opinion, if you are going to have unprotected sex, you should know the consequences and be ready and willing to give a child the chance at life that it deserves.




Letting a life form die and killing it are two separate things. If the fetus or child were to die a natural death that nobody could help, that would be a completely different issue. But in this case, it's not about letting something die, it's about killing.

A few things come to mind.

If abortion was allowed...and if it came down to your parents not wanting us, none of us would be writing now. None of us would get a chance to love, to walk, to make friends, to work, to learn. And, for a parent who would get an abortion, how can she have the right to do such a thing? If she herself was born? Would that mean that the parents mother, since the mother had the right to kill her daughter before birth, still have the right to kill her now? Since the mother didn't abort her daugther who now herself is a parent, what right does the parent have to kill her child?

Since when did human life come down to choice? Do I have a choice of killing of parents if they are mean to me and they made me so its there fault that iam not happy at the moment? (example)....no, i dont.

Abortion is murder, abortion is selfish do you know why?

Because to get to the stage of abortion, you have to get pregenant. And if you think you are responsible enough for sex, then you must "DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES" Sex was made for reproduction! Not so that you had something to do friday night. The only person to blame for unwanted children is YOU. This excludes children from rape and other forced births. Don't want a child, dont have sex. If you want to tell me, people can't just stop having sex all of a sudden, trust me they can. It all comes down to your selfish little soul.

When has humankind thought ahead about the consequences? Not always. Using the "be responsible" argument is extremely naive even if it's very rigtheous.

Sex is made for reproduction but what about couples who are infertile? If they can't repoduce, does that mean they shouldn't have sex? Humans are not like other animals who go into heat (which is a signal they can reproduce). Humans feel the pleasure and the intimacy. It's something that most people are curious about and would want to enjoy sooner or later.

Banning abortion is forced birth. I'm against extremely irresponsible abortions (e.g. girls who forget about the condoms constantly and then just go to the doctors' multiple times) but sometimes people make mistakes and we as a whole have to be more forgiving of human nature. I'm sure most of resulted from our parents using contraceptives but they failed. It could happen to anyone. You have to keep the option open to women. If you ban abortion, you force them to carry out the pregnancy to term (9 months). Inevitably, if you force them into a corner, they'll take drastic measures.

Before condoms, pills, and abortions WERE legal, women were suppose to have the babies. Some who did not wish to give birth stuck wire hangers up their womb (sometimes killing both herself and the fetus) or threw themselves down the stairs.

The fetus is a parasite because it lives off the mother without providing anything in return. If taken away from its host, it will not survive.

The fact still remains, that if you were aborted you wouldn't be saying this right now. As a matter of fact, maybe you should have been aborted? If its such a good idea? I'd think you wouldn't agree, since your life is to precious for you.

As of now, keeping the option open for women is just another voice of the feminist movement. Guess what, iam keeping the option open for those babies. Since they cannot speak for themselves, and are complety unprotected, I will stand up for them. The problem is that you turn this issue that involves human life into a political goal...rights for women.

And, yes I do believe that being responsible is THE NUBMER ONE solution. After all when someone is drunk driving and crashes and kills someone, do we tell that person...."dont worry, no one expects you to be responsible". No, we tell him, look dummie, your actions are now going to bring self punishment. Therefore, if you want to argue being responsible isn't good enough, drunk drivers shouldnt be held accountable for killing other people during accidents.

^ the fact still remains, if guy A didn't rape girl B, then someone isn't here right now.

does that mean guy A should be forced to rape girl B?

at legally abortable stages, the baby can even poop. come on here.
the rights of the host surpass the rights of the parasite.

<--- Would be one pissed off parasite if he were aborted.

No you wouldn't, since your brain wouldn't have been developed enough to know the difference or the alternative.

:] Just saying.


HIIIII JUSTIN SR !!!!

Ok, i'm too lazy to read your points so whatever.

Few questions though, let's say you aborted your child for whatever reason, 2 years later, wouldn't you want to know what your child would've looked like if you kept him? Or want to hear him say "i love you", or see him playing soccer with his friends, or see him dressing up for his first date? I mean, come on.

How can you live knowing that you aborted a child?

Whenever you see a little boy with him mama, wouldn't he remind you of your baby?

I don't know why i'm asking these questions but god, i just want to know your response...i'm actually dying to know.

Yep. I'm sentimental.

^ That's their choice. No one wants to get an abortion and if accidentally having a child wasn't an issue, that would be marvelous! But unfortunately, that's not the case and accidents happen. Even though women have to make sacrifices, it's probably for the best. And they could have another child when they're ready and hear those "I love you"'s. Of course, the abortion would haunt them for life and that mistake they made would haunt them for life, I'm sure if you had a baby and were insufficient in caring for it, the consequences would be far worse. And the guilt.

^ Never. It's MY baby, no matter what circomstance, i'll keep it. If things are really bad, i'll give it up for adoption.

There you go Weird addiction...thats a responsible person! There is always adoption and there are many alternatives....

By the way, Rape is another issue. When I say abortion is completly wrong, iam speaking of births that were a result of sexual activity that two people agreed to.

I'am still thinking about all you guys and how much less we would have in this world if we were aborted. It dosn't make sence, what right do we have to take life if someone decided to give us life?

would it make any difference if i told you hitler was almost aborted?

^ No. It doesn't. He was a terrible man, yes but still he was innocent at birth.

to someone's question up there:

yes, nearly half the time i wish i wasn't even born so i didn't have to go through some of the shiiet that i have to. or think the things i do. or feel the way i do. or i don't have to see or hear the things i do.

hitler wasn't innocent for long. he grew up with an abusive father so he acted out (vandalism, theft) on the streets.

i want some of the people who support a ban on abortion to feel what it's like being forced to do something with your body. i believe in responsibility but i believe in a person's freedom a slight more. i don't want an open system of abortion. i want a structured system that has reprucussions for carless sexual activity while keeping the option open for women.

That is not what life is about, there is an answer. How can such a thing as life bring so many hardships? Yes, it truly is a struggle, but there is one who understands it...and give purpose. My heart truly is taken with grief, when I read that, for it laments for you. my dear friend, will you ever be willing to try something that promises happiness?

nothing in life promises happiness. the only thing i do is just stick with it cause i have to.

I beg to differ

How in the world does life promise happiness?
Have you ever met anyone whose life is entirely happy?

I can answer these questions and have a very good and decent conversation, but it can't happen on this forum, just isn't the place...if you would like to send me a message or AIM/MSN me, feel free.

But, life is meant to be happiness...

Agreed.

Keeping the option of abortion open is not encouraging women to be sexually promiscuous and reckless. There should be limits and regulations, just as there are now. After your first trimester, or maybe at a point even before that, a woman shouldn't be allowed to abort her child - but if she took the time to get tested a week after she's been impregnated, she should be allowed the right to an abortion.

Women should not be forced to give birth to a child if she was raped and, thus having the baby would cause emotional and psychological trauma. Also, in most situations, an abortion happens because the baby will not be financially taken care of and will eventually be given up to an adoption center or foster care.

Abortion isn't murder, but it should never be any woman's first option - more like always a last resort.

Whether you support it or not many times does pertain to religious belief - but please remember that in America there is such a thing as separation between church and state, and such a standard applies to an issue like this.

On the topic of abortion, how do you woman out there feel about men being involved in the decision regarding legalizing abortion? Personally, I feel they are allowed a say, but their opinion shouldn't be as highly regarded as a woman's, mostly because I feel it's the woman's body and her right as a mother.

I had a history teacher who once patronized me and said, "All everyone ever thinks about is the woman. 'It's her body, it's her choice!' But you know what? It's murder because you are killing an innocent unborn child!" But technically Mr. ******, how can it be considered a human child when it's not even developed into a fetus?

I don't think some of you people realize something..

There ARE limits set RIGHT NOW. There was a point in a fetus's development deemed as the "life point" and women cannot by law get abortions after that point in the pregnancy pending extentuating circumstances. It's not like every single abortion is open to everyone, no matter what the length of time the fetus has been developing and whatnot. And not everyone can just go to the doctor and get an abortion. Cases are reviewed and if it's near the "life point" and the person doesn't really have a good reason to get an abortion besides their own stupidity, they can be turned down for the operation.

Abortions are expensive, painful, and traumatizing. People don't just get abortions as an easy way out. It's the only other way besides going through your entire life feeling guilty for putting your child through a life it didn't deserve when it could have had a much better one. It is a last resort, more or less always. People don't go through operations and pay thousands of dollars and make it seem easy. It's not.

^^ Word

Abortions can generally cost low as $400 and as high as $6000, depending on the trimester. The latter may be expensive to quite a few, but to those who have the intent and funds are readily available, it's not a hard feat. And while 32 states restrict public fundings for abortions, 17 states subsidize abortions for poor women—usually for cases of rape and incest, but for all we know there are always exceptions. Insurance does cover abortion costs and those who paid the an abortion on their own can get reimbursed. Private fundings are also available.

According to the CDC stats results the highest percentages of reported abortions were women aged <25 years (52%). Okay, that's bearable and explainable. However, can someone detail me what possible reasons would induce the other 48%, women, older than 25 years, to have an abortion? Aside from health reasons, I wonder how many of those pregnancies were simply unwanted.

As much as I want to believe abortions for last resorts, Sammi, I think only about half actually cared to view or even try other options available. I cannot believe that all 52% of that population, for whatever reason, absolutely cannot put up their children up for adoption or a close relative to help rear their kids.

Not all, no, but for most, it is a last resort. I know there are the slutty people like on Desperate Housewives or something that have a bunch of sex and do it all the time, but most of the time, it's a last resort. Abortions aren't casual. It's not something just thrown away like it's nothing.

I mean, why else would we have so many teenage mothers nowadays?
Because they don't want to go through an abortion.

I'm completely against abortion. I think if you have sex, then it's your responsibility to take care of your child.

Rape is a different story though. If you were raped, and were really young, not old enough to support a baby, you should do abortion.

If you were raped and was a suitable age for giving birth to a baby, then why not?

Yes, it would have to find out about it's mom being raped and thats how they were born, but i'm sure they will thank you for having it and giving it life.

Abortion is on choice.

Im against it but not really for the fact Yeah it obviously is your own fault if your willing to do things without a condom but if u get raped of sumthin its totally different why wuld u wanna carry a peice of the person that raped around..knowing this baby wasnt ment to be and every time u see the child u see the person which causes anger....Or even if ur like 13-14 etc not ready to have a kid no job no money schooling is not complete Then ya go for an abortion But if ur well off old enuf and have no reason to get rid of a child well then ur just a f**k head

^ nice opinion. but at the end of the day, that's all it is. an opinion.

I think It should be allowed b/c there iz no use of having a child if u CANT or wont take care of it..alot of kids end up hating being in an orphanage anyway so whats the point in having one if you dont want it?

If everyone kept their babys and never took care of them and just gave them away or couldnt deal with them ..that would be considered..OVERPOPULATION

[edit]merged

1) Don't double post.
2) Stop bringing back a bazillion really old topics.

Why you want to have the child of a man who raped you?

Abortion is better than actually eating the fetus.

In Japan (I heard from an online article) that a restaurant sells dead fetus for food.

Your point?

For all those that are saying that abortion is justifiable if a woman was raped....ever heard of adoption? Yes, the woman will have to go through nine months carrying a child and then go through labor but sometimes life throws us curveballs. Not everything in life is going to be "fair" and if you think that just because you were raped, you should have the choice to kill an innocent baby, there's something wrong. There are plenty of couples out there that can't have babies and would love to adopt one. When you abort a baby, not only do you take away its life, but you also take away the dreams of a couple that would love to become parents.

i just had a hebrew school class just on this.
i agree with the jewish view (even though im agnostic) that fetuses are "mere fluid." not life.

and about rape. i personally could never carry a rapist's child. i just..would feel dirty. wrong. its wrong to have to carry a rapist's child. victims should at least be given a choice.

that people should appreciate what we have now. Abortion isn't made for the pleasure of killing babies. When anti-abortion people say how it's like killing human beings, they sound like they kill them out for pleasure. but no, abortion is to help women who cannot support themselves and the baby. And women who can't support their pregnancy. I mean, if it was a religios girl still living under her strict religious, I would let it pass for her to get an abortion

That's true. But then again, it's your child too. Just because its father is a rapist doesn't mean that they will turn out that way. Shouldn't they at least be given chance at life?

i feel awful saying this..but i could never love a child that i didn't want to have.

if i was raped, and carried the child, i could never love it.

Ah, does merely carrying a child make it yours, even if you had no input on the making of it, or even the action that led to the making of it?

I still have not been given a reason as to why someone should have to have a child when they don't want to, especially since the current laws even right now prevent it from happening when the fetus is actually living...

A woman that gets pregnant resulting from rape doesn't have the input of making a child but that doesn't mean that it's NOT hers. Why wouldn't it be? Life is not always going to be perfect. Yes, rape is a very unfortunate thing but having a baby doesn't mean that you're saying it's okay. When life gets tough people often think of how to get themselves out of the hole but is killing another person.....especially YOUR child.......to get out of that hole really the right thing to do?


Because it's murder? Because you're killing your own child? Because it's a selfish act? Because there are other options? It takes TWO people to make a baby and if you're not ready to suffer the consequences, you shouldn't be having sex in the first place. Yes, rape is another story but I think I stated how I feel about that above.

So, by that logic, if we're at school, and I place a baggie of cocaine in your locker, and you get caught with it--that cocaine is yours, and you should be punished for possessing it, yes?

No. That cocaine is yours and you framed me to get caught with it. A baby gets its genes from both the mother and the father. The child is literally part yours. I get really aggrivated when I see a father neglect his child but in the same sense, I get mad if the mother does this too. And when the mother neglects her child or doesn't want to take responsibility, what does she do? Abort it. Cocaine is a substance that could potentially kill you. A child is a human being and its life is not something that its mother should be able to take.

I strongly agree. But my aunt did tell me that my cousin was a mistake (almost sued the condom company) and yet she ended up loving her...

but if the baby came from an unwanted force...then hell no

But the question still remains: if one forces another to possess something against her will, does it belong to her if she does not willingly accept it?

YES it belongs to them. YES they helped make it...even if they didn't want to. It's not an easy fact to accept but that child is theirs, whether they like it or not. My question to you is, if you think that a women should be able to deny her child on the basis that she she doesn't want to accept it, should guys be allowed to do this too? If a man doesn't want to take responsiblity and be a parent to his child, she he be allowed to neglect it?