I'll agree with sadolakced acid as long as the whole "government funding for frivolous abortions" thing is out of the question. Financial aid only in special cases, but still on a pro-choice-with-some-limitations basis. :P

i'm against it except if the woman got raped.
but i think it should be legal cuz it is a woman's choice

They have this new thing, where you can tell if its a boy or girl within the first 5 weeks of pregnancy...I saw it on the news, and they were talking about if it would alter peoples decision to get an abortion or not, based on what gender it was.
I think that is stupid
"oh I wanted a boy, not a girl....okay I'll have an abortion"
That made me really upset....

And alot of people already know what I think about abortion, I post on some of the first pages....not sure where but yeah.

That's utterly ridiculous.

hahahahahaha

"the all-mighty Minda would aprove."

if i ever meet him i'm telling him he's, appearently, the debate god, or somthing.

now for some input on the debate: how does abortion hurt anyone? seriously, does it really hurt you if your neighbor gets an abortion? i heard this girl had an abortion and i felt fine. how does somone getting an abortion effect a pro-life person? everybody has the right to choose for themselves. pro-lifers need to take care of their own problems.

plus, we're making so much new medicine. how are we going to control population once we find a cure for cancer? and what if the parent can't afford the child? that's just more welfare money out of our pockets.

abortion is awesome.

You're protecting the rights of 'Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' of the (most of the time) stupid, careless teenage college student who got knocked up while she was drunk. With your approach, you're failing to protect those rights when it comes to the child that will be born months down the road.

And don't kid yourself; a fetus with facial features, arms, legs, and a beating heart is worthy of having protected rights.

however, a fetus in first trimester isn't living, so that wouldn't apply there.

How does this rule out first trimester abortions? A trimester, depending on the pregnancy, is roughly 90 days. A fetus' heart starts beating after just 22 days from conception, and by this time it has developed significantly defined features on the face, and limbs.

That's pretty living, to me.

And honestly, how many abortions do you think really think happen before those 22 days?

When in pregnancy do most women have abortions?

In the United States, nearly nine in 10 abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy and 56% occur in the first eight weeks. [45] The availability of medical abortion (the "abortion pill," or mifepristone) and new techniques that allow surgical abortions to be performed earlier in pregnancy are likely to reinforce the trend toward earlier abortions.

Are an increasing proportion of women having their abortion earlier in pregnancy?

Yes, an increasing proportion of abortions are performed early in pregnancy. [46] In addition, in 2000, more providers were offering both medical and surgical abortion early in pregnancy than had previously. A majority of nonhospital providers now offer abortion services beginning at five weeks from the last menstrual period (about three weeks after fertilization), and some even earlier. [47]

Well, isn't that lovely. Nearly 9 in 10 abortions occur in the first twelve weeks, and 56% in the first eight? Well, that only equates to 84 days, and 56 days after conception, respectively. Assuming that most abortions occur around the 20-84 days post-conception area (which is reasonable, because the 'early abortion' techniques you described were three weeks after, which is 21 days), just about 100% of abortions stop a heart beat.

I guess I was wrong. Abortions don't kill anything. [/sarcasm]

against it. its just like murder to me...if people are stupid enough to have sex when they dont want a baby then they will have to sufer the consiquences.

According to the rules of the debate forum, you should have read the thread instead of going off in a rant. Please read the thread and formulate your argument again because we've already debated this point of view.

how does a beating heart equate life? or facial features? expecially when the brain is just stem cells.

i'm too tired to read over this whole thing.

are we debating the overall morality of abortion or whether or not abortion is right in our society?

mindy!

errr... i dunno.

It's called rape? But anyway, I agree with you. Even if they get raped though, there shouldn't be an abortion...if the mom really wanted to get rid of her child then adoption would be better then death...

I don't support abortion. I see it as killing babies!

Well, the topic starter didn't specify so we're debating both, I think.

i think it was whether it should be legal or not.

and justin, my point was as of right now, most abortions occur in the first trimester and in the future, most are going to be in the first 3 weeks. it's gradually becoming more and more in that timeframe.

It's more living than it is not.

it's less living than a baby

That doesn't justify sucking it out in a tube.

it doesn't justify forcing a woman to carry this less than living cell mass if she doens't want too.

teratomas grow off of ovaries. (or testes). they have all the cells of feotuses. they have beating hearts, muscles, etc. should the removal of teratomas be illegal?

there are too many pro-choice people in america for this nation to ban/strictly limit abortion. so.. yeah.

okay, i'd like to say that i'm pro-life, but you really have to consider the issue from the pregnant woman's perspective. i can only imagine how ruined my life would be if i got pregnant in college with my entire future ahead of me. if i were ever placed in that situation (not that i will ever be), i really can't say for sure that i would keep the baby.

I think if the parent cant take care of the baby then she should get an abotion.
Cause they is really no point to have a baby if you cant give it care,
It will just get sick and die afterwards.

This is where the "one and you're done" circumstantial law comes into play.

I can stomach one abortion, or even two, but not 10 (and women with 10 abortions on record do exist).

i've worked up a whole argument for this, so don't even try to argue with me. im totally against abortion.

1) People say women should have a choice, well sorry but unless you were raped you had a choice when you had sex. I know that sounds harsh, but you have to pay for your actions.

2) If I went out and shot someone and killed them, fully knowing what I did and plenty of people saw and i confessed and what not.. no question that i did it, i would be convicted of murder. This isnt accepted in society right? Okay now if my mother went and shot my sister in the head and killed her, same circumstances as above, she would be convicted of murder. This is not accepted in society either. So why is it okay for a mother to kill her unborn child? THAT IS MURDER.

3. Don't even say the baby isn't alive yet. Scientists have had things saying what a living thing does for years.. eats, breaths, reacts to environment, etc etc. A baby inside a mothers womb does all this. Also, what would you say if i asked you what a miscarriage is? When a baby DIES in a mothers womb or during delivery. How can a living thing die? its NOT POSSIBLE. Therefore, the baby is alive, so now refer up to #2.

4) I understand that its hard, and i know i cannot totally understand because i'm not in the situation, but murder is murder. Killing a life can not be excused for any reason.. there are so many people out there who want children and cannot have them, if you cannot support a child plenty of those people can.

lol sry to be so straightforward, it sounds better when im in person but thats my argument for it.

Lol, I'm not all too sure about that Justin....

Religion is actually what led the [world] this far, for good and for bad.
If we didn't have it.... I wouldn't like to say it, but the world would be barbaric and ravaging.

Most people need something to accompany them in life and to have as a higher form of life.

ok im against abortion as well..
but consider this..
think of all the kids in foster homes..
think of how many get adopted..
not that many..
so what happens if no one adopts you??
what happens if you turn 18..
no where to go...
no education..
no family..
what then??

ehh... religion, constantly good or bad.

it motivates people, but sometimes to the wrong direction (aztecs, you know)

xlauren73x, please read the whole thread (ok, it's long, but at least like... the first few and last few pages...) those arguments have been used already.

This is a debate forum, love. People will debate.



You're not paying for your actions by putting another child through pain. If one can't take care of their own child, it's a mother's RIGHT to get an abortion.

"You cannot kill what you did not create" - Duality by Slipknot

But in the case of a mother and her unborn child, shouldn't the mother have a choice to destroy or keep what she created?

"Unless you were raped"

Regardless, a woman should have a right to do what she wants to do with her own child. Government should not be able to take "legal" control over a woman's child. How are you to make a law that says "Unless a woman is raped, they are not allowed to get an abortion" People would plead innocent by saying "No, but I was raped!"



It's murder for the good of the child! If a mother is 14 years old and can't take care of a baby, it's only best for her child's welfare that she abort it. Otherwise, the child may live a life in an orphanage, get adopted by abusive parents and whatnot. When that all can be avoided by simply erasing the baby from existence before it can feel and before something horrible could happen.



Yeah, it's dead. Blah blah, big deal. As insensitive as I may sound, it's necessary for the debate. HELLO, IT'S THE MOTHER'S BABY. Does she not have a say in what happens to her own creation?



And then the child grows up and has to deal with unwanted drama because they find out they're adopted. And the world gets overpopulated with parentless children in poor orphanages because the mothers don't get to abort their poor babies. Lovely lovely world.

if love, passion, curiosity, anger, opinion, or any other human emotion never existed, the world would be a more peaceful place.

religion is just a natural part of this world; you can't expect everyone to believe the same thing. sure, there would be no war without controversy or difference in opinion. but life would be dull and pointless without anything to seek/explore.

oh man. how did this turn into another religion thread?

DERRINGTON.

because of the religious reasons for banning abortions....

Lmao......*shakes head*

My opinion:

I think abortion is wrong. You had unprotected sex, you got pregnant, then you want to abort the baby? is something wrong with you? you need to be locked up. That is YOUR baby, the consequence of what you did...if you feel you can't take care of it, give it up for adoption, there are thousands of couples who want babies...don't be selfish...

Lets say you got raped...terrible, i know. I understand if you consider abortion, not your fault but still...how can you do something like that? To me, it's murder...yes it is...give it up for adoption for christ sake... (...i don't really have much to say in this case, i think it's wrong but oh well)...

And for people who say "it's the mother's choice", WTF?? NOBODY has the right to take someone's life...to decide who lives and who doesn't. You have absolutely NO right to deprive a baby from living...It's not the mother's choice, neither is it the father's choice...for christ's sake...imagine this:

I gave birth to a baby...the child grows up and one day decides to steal...i find out and get SO mad and kill MY CHILD...hey don't be mad, it's my child, i have a right to do what i want with it, don't i? (stupid example, but it's the same thing as saying "it's the mother's choice".

If a 14 year old had unprotected sex and says "i can't take care of a baby, not right now, i'm unfit", you are 14, you are TOO young for sex, but that doesn't bother you, you give birth to a baby and that bothers you? what can i say... if you don't want to push the baby out, have a c section...or what not.

What i noticed, NONE of you knows what it feels like to be called a murderer, well i do... no i was never pregnant...but my friend Vanessa got pregnant early this year, she told me but she couldn't tell her mom. She made me promise not to tell. She aborted the baby but her mom found out (she's a nurse) and vanessa put the blame on me...her mom was like "you are as guilty as vanessa, you knew what she was going to do and you didn't tell me. You murderer" Yes she said that. She's hispanic, and she cursed me in spanish ... They moved Vanessa to Panama. Her mom doesn't talk to me, she thinks i'm a killer...Only 6 people know about this in Belgium: vanessa, her mom, her sisters (2), my bestfriend and I. Her family in Panama are giving her a tough time...

Gosh, my hands hurt

Sandra, you're bringing up points that have already been discussed.

We've already proven that fetuses in the first three weeks aren't living at all, whatsoever and embryos throughout first trimester aren't scientifically considered to be living, even though some people morally consider them living.

Therefore, aborting in the first trimester of pregnancy (when most abortions are done) isn't murder at all. For something to die, it has to be living first.

^ I know you've discussed that...i actually read almost all the arguments, but to me it is murder, maybe not scientifically, but in my opinion, it is...i'm hard to understand, i know...but that's my opinion.

But it's not even living..in the first three weeks, all it is is a blob of cells. It's about as living as a rock. There's no heartbeat, brain, arms..anything. Highly resembles the sperm that made it.

Yes i'm aware of that...but it's inside of me... lets say 3 months later, that little thing with no arms/legs... will actually turn out to be a living thing IN me... i don't know but i become emotional when talking about abortion...tell you the truth, i don't really like children but still...

How have you proven this? You haven't proven this to me at all...

Within the first three weeks of pregnancy, the fetus develops a heartbeat, and several other characteristics that would lead me to believe it's wrong to suck it out of a tube. The fetus, at this point, is already neurologically developing past the point of thousands of animal species (many of which I'm sure most of the people in this thread would argue need protection). Why does this logic extend to protect a certain animal, and not a human fetus?

EDIT:



Wrong. The pulse develops at around 18-21 days (do the math on what week that lies within), the point at which arms, legs, digits, a rib cage, and many other uncanny human characteristics are visible (thanks to Campbell's ultrasound technology). And even then, it's likely that hardly any abortions occur before the heartbeat is developed.

The unused eggs that get "cancelled" when you have your period. They too have the potential to be life.

edit;;
Blah, I can't find the information online right now, but last trimester we had a section in our Bio book comparing fetuses between a pig, human, and fish in the third week of pregnancy. The pig and human fetuses were extremely similar with the same amount of brain waves omitted. The fish had a bit less, and was a different color. All were the same shape and size.

And Sandra, what if giving birth could kill the mother?

Ok i just asked my mom and the fetus is alive within the first 3 weeks

You screwed around. You deal with the consequences. Don't murder an innocent child because of your stupid mistake. Sex=baby. If you don't want a baby, don't have sex. That simple. No one knows what that aborted baby could have been. He/she could've been the next president, or the next Einstein. Even a doctor that could've found the cure for all cancer. I don't care if they are the mother or father of the child. They don't have the right to steal that child's life because they were to stupid not to realize "Oh, if I have sex, I might have a baby! Maybe I shouldn't have sex!" My nephew Christian is a perfect example. My sister had him at 17 and she could have aborted him, but she didn't. The doctors actually said abortion would be the best choice. Now he's two, going on three and he is the most precious child I have ever met in my life and the smartest. He is a joy to our entire family. Sure, my sis messed up, screwed around, but she was strong enough to face her mistake and have that child. Abortion is the wimps way out. If you have an abortion, you're no more of a person then that unborn child. You're a murderer. Sorry if I sound harsh, that's just my opinion.

And I asked my mom and she said it wasn't.

RockizLife, you don't have to tell us that.

Even Sammi and Acid know; most all abortions happen because a teenage girl was stupid and didn't use contraceptives.

You really don't have to tell them that; they know.

LMAO! someone has to be wrong...i wish i could ask my dad but he doesn't live with me ...

I wasn't telling them that. Just my general opinion on abortion.

1. What Justin said is true. We know this. I don't think that's right either, however, there are other reasons why people get abortions. Perhaps you should read through the thread and know what I actually support before reitterating what has already been pounded into my head to the infinitieth power.

2. The child could also grow up to be Hitler, who was almost aborted and indirectly caused the killing of my great-grandmother. Definitely not a perfect little joy to my life. What's your point?



Sandra, my mom's studying to be a nurse, and that's why I asked her a while ago. Her teacher even said my boyfriend and I can go debate with her college class about abortion when it comes up too, woohoo. And she said most of the people in her class are her age, which should prove to be fun...

Sammi my mom IS a nurse, well she stopped practising now... she's going into "business" ... you are lucky, all i get to debate about is pocket money raise ...

To answer your last question, if the woman should die giving birth to her baby, at least she died saving a life...you know the woman can also die by aborting a baby...

Yeah, I know. I wasn't talking directly to you. Just sharing my opinion. I am fully aware of your opinions, and I have read the entire thread, thank you

Yeah, I'm not saying they couldn't grow up to be bad. Doubt very seriously another Hitler. Sorry about your grandmother. I hate Hitler more then any being that has ever lived. But that's another issue. It's still that childs life. Not the parents. They have no right to take it away.



Exactly. I'd rather die then go on living knowing I killed my child.

What’s your point, or no - you don't have one. That’s why you had to use Hitler to justify what you are saying.

I don’t justify what Hitler did to the Jewish society, but he was a genius. He got into the political fabric of the Nazi Germany, over-ran his superiors in power. Then after all of that he let his power get to his head, and used his own power against him. He killed himself the day he won his political seat in the German government.