i was once against the idea of abortion but ever since i have been taking classes for birth and child development, as much as i love kids- i think it is the women's choice. i know that it is not fair on the child themselves but think about the women. what if she was raped? how is she going to live knowing that her child is the product of a rape?

I don't touch this topic despite the research I've done on it. Killing is killing so naturally, my gut instinct is to say to outlaw it. However, I think it should be a woman's choice for the obvious; I'm not a woman. I can't relate. It shouldn't be up to a man to decide because we can't give birth.

better to have a hundred people be murdered than one person loose thier rights.

Ellaborate. I think I follow you, but I'm not quite sure.

we are a country in which the state serves the citizen.

this is what makes us great.

the purpose of the state is to serve the citizen. not a new idea, as the greeks had it, but it was ressurected in the United States of America.

this being so, rights are quite important to us.

therefore; it is better that one hundred people die that one person have thier rights violated.

so basically,

it's better that one hundred people are killed by a terrorist than one innocent is locked up for a year, for no reason.

of course, that's not what's happening now, but you get my point.


this applys here because i assume that you'll be thinking as abortion as murder. if so, and all abortion were outlawed, those who deserve abortions (13 year old, boyfriend convinced her, she makes mistake.) will not get them, thus, violating her rights.

so it is better that one hundred babies are aborted for the wrong reason

than one baby is not aborted when there was a good reason.

it's a modification of the quote by a judge along the lines of it's better that 8 guilty men go free than one innocent man is incarcerated.

Thats where I figured you were headed but I didn't want to agree to later realize that I really didn't agree to begin with.

i do agree, because of course, most abortions (1st and 2nd trimester) i don't consider to be murder.

I think it's the woman's choice. Pshh .. what if she doesn't believe in God?

Oh, yeah. Hitler's mom was about to abort him, but her doctor talked her out of it.

Yeah, and Alexander Fleming's mother was talked out of aborting him, too.

it doesn't matter, Bobby Johnson, born the same day, could have done whatever the next famous person did too.

i am all the women's choice period. whether one doesnt morally believe in it this their problem to deal with. like me, i dont support abortion but i wont go up to a person and be like "baby killer!"

i am against abortion 100% and i dont walk around saying "baby killer!"
and the woman shouldn't have the right to choose, because there really is nothing to decide. a baby is a human whether inside the body or not. you would charge a person with murder if they killed a baby that was a day old. what about if that baby was killed 3 months before.

And somehow people always come back to the arguement of "what if she were raped?" i know a lady who was a product a rape. she THANKS her mother everyday for not having an abortion.

Agree'd, if some girl sleeps with her boyfriend and gets knocked up thats her fault and should have the baby even if she puts it up for adoption..

I mean, I've heard people say that if a girl gets rapped she should still have it. But I mean that wasnt her choise.. she shouldnt have to go threw that if she doesnt want to. Not to menchon I know some girls who started there.. cycels when they were 9.. can you imagin a 9 year old getting pragnent?! *shiver*

I'm for abortion.
What if the mother felt like she couldn't bring the baby up in a good enviroment? What if a girl was raped (always bought up in this topic) and felt like she wouldn't be able to love the child like it should be as everytime she looked at them, it would remind her of that one time?

My mum had an abortion. 'It' would of been around 20 now. She had been with my dad a year when she got pregnant for the first time. My dad was in the Navy and also they had only just 'moved' in together. They didn't have much money. My dad said he would marry my mum. But for what? The baby or for her? My dad still stuck by her even with the choice she decided.

I hate it when people say that it's like murdering someone. It's not a human being. It's a foetus. Not properly developed yet.

Well, I'll be damned if my child gets killed.

I'm pro-choice....

I don't think that irresponsible, idiots should be allowed to have reproduce. At all. Period. I'm sick of stupid girls opening their legs, having unprotected sex and bringing kids they have no plans on ever taking of into this world. Truth be told, I think that all women who have two children and are deemed as unsuitable parents or are prostitues or drug addicts in government care should have to either A) get sterilized, b) take mandatory doses of birthcontrol or get an IUD to keep them from reproducing, or c) get mandatory abortions.

I've seen it happen way too many times. Every life is a possibility, but some are just plain f*d up. My youngest niece (who is adopted) has 3 younger brothers, one of whom was born addicted to crack and with his heart outside of his body. He will always require special care and most likely never be able to fully function. Their biological mother is a piece of scum who kept having kids and giving them away. She left my niece in a homeless shelter at the age of 3 and never came back for her. Scum like that needs to be kept from reproducing.

Some people say, you choose the action, you chose the consequence but the children being born don't choose their consequences. Millions of kids languish in the foster care system each year, waiting for permanent homes and loving parents that never come. Unless the American people are willing to provide better care for the kids in the system, I will remain pro-choice. No child deserves to be into the system and forgotten about, left behind and disadvantaged because of it. No child deserves to be born as a reminder of rape, or in a hopeless and dangerous situation.

antix10_kos- Well said.

i can see it both ways. i strongly believe that it is the woman's choice. if she wants to keep it and take the responsibility, then more power to her! this is the family's decision. if the state cannot take part in religion, why should they take part in the personal decisions of individuals?

The "state" takes part in deciding whether or not they will send people off to war. Some of the people they send off will die. People complain but no one stops that because it's in the name of defense. So, in my opinion, is preventing the birth of unwanted children and the procreation of numbskulls who abandon their children in desperate places or have them and leave them in the government funded system to be taken care of. We are defending these children from having to suffer and prevent the citizens of this country for having to pay for them in the years afterward. The US government hates taking care of its citizens anyway, why keep creating more citizens for it to have to take care of? It doesn't want to give any more money to the DFS or foster care systems, it shuns setting up a national healthcare system, it underfunds and overcrowds its public schools, and does many other things to show that it gives two craps less about its people....

As for the "state" not being able to penetrate our lives and make decisions for us, read and learn.

PATRIOT ACT EXPLAINED. PT 1 (CTRL+F "Section 215")
PATRIOT ACT EXPLAINED. PT 2
PATRIOT ACT EXPLAINED. PT 3
PATRIOT ACT EXPLAINED. PT 4

PATRIOT ACT---FULL TEXT (ONLY IF U LIKE TO READ)

PATRIOT ACT 2 -- EXPLAINED ( CTRL+F "I challenge all Americans" )

PATRIOT ACT PART 2---DRAFT

Abortion is murder.
It does not make a girl unpregnant it makes her the mother of a dead baby.
I plead for mercy from God on our nations behalf.
www.bound4life.com

^^

Ick, the way you said that bugs me.
Like you were stating a fact when it's just an opinion.
Totally irrelevant but yeah..

oh, but it does.

you cannot, no matter how twisted your logic, argue that after an abortion ( or a miscarraige) that the mother is still pregnant.

Off topic but the US Patriot Act really irks the sh!t out of me.

Abortion is another one of those issues that cannot be decided with a simple answer. If you can give a simple answer for abortion then you don't understand the question or the issue at hand.

I wanted to add my 2 cents to this topic.
Just so you know, I might be reposting what someobdy said because I have not read through 20 pages to see my responce was made.

Ok, some people have been saying that when the girl goes through rape, the girls have to live through it, am I right? And your solution to that would be that they should put it up for adoption if they are not ready for it.
Imagine that a 12 year old girl has been raped. After that traumatic event, she finds out that she is pregnant. Should she get an abortion? Well lets see, do you want a girl that young to experience labor? Do you think a girl that young would be emotionally strong enough through that process?

Also, when a girl gets pregnant with a baby, (might be rape, casual, whatever) she might not be ready for the baby. Should the baby be treated as punishment because of the little mistake that they had? Also, the mother would eventually would be depressed from having a baby and resorts to drinking and doing drugs. Eventually, this process would make the baby a stillbirth(its a possibility so don't bash on me about this). The baby would have died no matter what in that situation. Also, if the baby does live, there is a high possibility of that baby would have problems. Would you want a child to go through that kind of life? And some of you might respond that 'A life is better than no life at all'. Through a psychological pattern, when this child goes through the trouble and the depressing times, suicide might be involved. And also, whats the chance that the baby might be able to live a happy life?

^^ yeh know what, i do think a life is better then no life at all. and ya wanna know why? my friend was adopted from Etheopia (a 3rd world country) and her parents died shortly after she was born. but ya know what? she was happy b/c she got to grow up as a normal kid b/c she was put up for adoption. i mean any person would say oh that mother can have an abortion b/c she lives in a 3rd world country and can't raise her kid...its not right...no child should be deprived of life...should a child be punisned for the actions of another whether it be rape, casual whatveer the case may be.

^ however her life must have been miserable while living in ethiopia alone. that's traumatic.

The story of one girl does not equal the story of all girls. Sorry to break your heart hun.

You should've went back a couple pages and read my first post. Your friend might be better place now, as are my niece and her brothers, but that doesn't make it "all better". It breaks my heart to see the damage done to my niece and her younger brothers, damage done by drugs. My niece has problems with her eyes, learning disabilities, and other psychological and developmental issues due to prenatal drug use by her mother and the neglect she went through after she was born. I am glad that she is here with my sister's family, and a part of my life. I would not trade knowing her for the world. I just cry for her sometimes, because her mother messed her up. She will never be a "normal" kid. Neither will her younger brother who was born addicted to crack. Neither will the scores of kids each year in the US alone who are born addicted to drugs, with HIV and AIDS, with Hepatitis C, born deformed, blind, deaf and mentally challenged from their mother's choice of lifestyle. No one lines up to adopt these children, no one wants damaged goods. In the state where I live, more children come into DFS custody each year than leave. The majority of children in the system are black, black/white biracial, or hispanic. A great deal of them have stories and circumstances that I would not want to be true for any human being.

I do not embrace the motto, "A bad life is better than no life at all." No, it is not. No one deserves to be neglected, beat on, dragged from hopeless situation to hopeless situation, and exposed to things that I wouldn't want my worst enemy to be exposed to. Lest not a child, especially. It makes me sick when all the conservatives gang up and say that "Abortion is murder.", "A clump of cells has feelings.", etc. because no one except whoever's in charge, if there is anyone charge, knows that for sure. We, as humans, don't. I define murder as intentionally killing someone. A living, breathing someone, who feels pain and can defend themselves or will at the very least fight back. Even a infant will resist dying. A fetus won't, or maybe I should say, can't fight for it's life unless it's past a certain point development-wise. Once a girl has reached that point, then all right, she shouldn't have an abortion. But if she hasn't, and the baby has no realistic hope of living, then abortion should be allowed and it should be a valid choice.

However, now we have all sorts of amazing technology that has kept babies as young as 5 months along (only second trimester) alive. So what does that mean? Second term means viable life?? That's where the government and most people falter. It's that no man's land second trimester. Is it life or is it not, we can't really decide for sure if we can save that life, should we try anyway?? These are complicated moral questions.

personally i am pro-choice. i believe that a person has the right to choose whether they live or die. in addition, i also believe that people have a choice to have an abortion if they realize very early on that the baby will be mentally retarded and/or deformed.

very well said. my point exactly.

i would rather have a not yet living (by my view) fetus "die" than have two miserable lives go on.

i think it should be a woman's decision...wether she was raped or she did it of her own free will..

I'm pro-choice because, as I said before, sometimes thats a decision a man cannot make. Furthermore, there are certain circumstances that would make abortion seem like a logical choice (rape, drugged up mother, unfit parents, etc).

Although, I'll be damned if my future wife ever has one. Its like when Kate had an abortion in The Godfather II. I can't help but to sympathize with Micheal, I mean, Don Corleone.

Not that abortion is in anyway right.,yes killing an innocent fetus is wrong. BUT they are trying to take away a right that women all over have fought to have. (maybe not this exact right but hey...) I believe that a woman should have the choice. I would not like to get permission to do what i want with my body even if its the matter of a baby's life. You do what you gotta do, plus if they make it illegal thats not gonna stop abortions. Women would just go do it in other places, which could cause more problems. Also, all this talk about future Martin Luther Kings, teachers and scientists, you have no idea if that is true. There are other people who could replace them.

well, you're removing future JFKs and martin luther king jr.s. you're also killing future hitlers. so it about evens out.

hmm im against it .. you had sex w/o bein careful suffer the consequences. ha! lols. okay okay ... no abortions on the pass the third trimester

i've though this over a lot

abortion should be illegal. NOTHING can justify taking a human's life, especially your own baby. If you chose to have sex, there should be no thought whatsoever of abortion if you get pregnat. If you're raped, there is always adoption. There is just no way to justify it. And its true that some women will go to desperate measures to get an abortion if its made illegal, all i have to say to that is that they deserve what they get if they hurt themselves in the process.

dont think im being close minded either, i used to be behind abortion. i just have more experience on the matter as of now.

NOTHING can justify it?

what if the baby would be miscarried anyways, because of a fatal defect?

what if the mother would die?

nothing can justify taking a life.

abortion is not taking a life.
end of story.

:bored:

Those things are all left to chance, i've never heard of a baby's fate known 100% to be a miscarriage. If the mother died, that would be sad, but at least she did all that she could to save her baby. Either way, with the way you put it, does that justify murdering your baby? I don't believe so.
if you're raped, does that justify murder?



keep telling yourself that, but it wont come true. as soon as a woman becomes pregnat the thing inside of her is a life and to take it away would be murder

Stupid college girl goes out on the weekend, gets plastered and has sex with three different guys. Finds out a week later that she's pregnant, freaks out, and goes to have an abortion.

I'm sorry, but if you're ignorant enough to coddle that kind of blind stupidity, then I have lost a good amount of hard-earned respect for you.

Exactly. I hate this kind of mentality. There are kids in the middle school (not even in highschool!) that think that it's ok for them to have sex, because they can always get an abortion.

Sad.

High school girls, too.

abortion= removal of a parasite

removal of a parasite= medical treatment

medical treatment= cannot be denied.

anyways; if abortions were outlawed, black market drugs would come out that would cause the mother to abort the pregnacy.

thats a weak argument. human life isnt a parasite.

no. a placenta is anatomically a parasite.

Life, one of the many things we humans fail to comprehend. What causes it to start, what causes it to end. In the united states every man is made with three God given rights: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Who are we to say that those who have the potential to live dont have the same rights as someone who his living and on that point who is to say when life begins? How can taking life be anything, but murder? Just because someon lacks the ability to scream out, "NO DON'T!" does that make the act of life taking consensual? Well, how can it be when those who want to die and even try to commit suicide are considered to be clinically insane? Murder is murder. Murder is wrong. Just because we're allowed to do something it doesn't mean we should. It's called responsibility.

the guy is not at fault?

pro-life or pro-choice... tough topic and widely discussed these days. The more I think about it the more I realize people need to mind their own business. I am pro-choice.

unless it's rape, it's the girls fault. The girl is still the gatekeeper, she chooses who she allows to stick the key in to unlock her.

Yes, everyone mind their own business, wait.... that's what's wrong with the world today. Everyone minds their own business while people are murdered, robbed, raped, and neglected. Everyone should care for their neighbor. Not to the point where the neigbor becomes dependant, but just enough so that no one feels alone. Communities should be communities, not groups of individuals, but a family who chooses to commune. The world is yours to break.

i don't like the parasite argument.

this so called "parasite" was made from the mother's cells. her decision allowed it to be created (unless she was raped, then that's a different story). it's not like it entered her body from the outside without her consent, like a tapeworm.

All children are by definition parasites. They feed off of their hosts without killing them. Does that mean we should go and kill off all children. Get real, that's like committing global genocide which is just stupid.