i could be a president too. your point?..anyone can..

it depends on how the child is brought up. their intelligence is only as strong as the intelligence they get fed. if the mother is unable to feed the child adequately or send them to school or get them the sufficient amount of clothing, they wouldn't become president or a scientist or anything. they'd just be a miserable child.

i am pro-choice. I think the girl/woman should have the right to choose what to do with the baby, (more like a bunch of cells). Even if she has an abortion it doesn't mean she's not taking responsibilty with what happened, if she really doesn't want the child then in a way she is helping it. I wouldn't want to grow up knowing that i was going to be killed but was saved because of the government. Actually, its not a question of killing and saving. Its a question of choice. Its completely up to the girl to choose and abortion should be available and allowed for everyone, especially rape victims.

goody for you! you know what you think!

do you know what i thinK? i think this is a debate forum and i'd like to see some debating.

so, here are a few points for pro choice:


1. if abortion were only legal in cases of rape or incess, abortion clinics would close and you couldn't get one even in cases of rape of incess.

2. current legislations that Bush wants passed do not allow for the mother's health

3. A fetus is a parasite living off the mother, and thus is under her control.

4. If you go to an abortion clinic they try to show you the ultrasound and stuff to get you to keep the baby.

5. there's always canada and mexico if it's illegal stateside

6. this is a major life changing event, a baby is. how can the government regulate that? it's kind of like you need a birth licence to have a kid, except on the other side.


now, please argue.

yes i completely agree with all your points..it's "incest", not incess.

you're talking to a guy who misspells his own name.

I would say i'm pro choice, but someone at the top of this post said pro choice does not equal pro abortion. I think everyone should have the right to kill THEIR un born child. I think thats great, i see no problem with killing something that you dont even know what sex it is, and its like negative 9 months old. People always complain about killing something that could be the next Einstien or something. Well, ya know what you can do anything you set your mind to if YOU try.

Bring it on fellow debaters

i haev an idea. instead of getting rid of abortions, get rid if a reason for them.

don't f**k unless you want a kid. simple as that.

I'm pro-choice. I think that it's the woman's right to choose whether she wants to be a mother and go through all that crap... I wouldn't get an abortion though. Not unless I was raped or I would endanger myself by keeping the baby (like if the fetus started growing in my felopian (spelling??) tube...)

i'm pretty sure that all that what happens then is the fallopian tube ruptures...

hmm. i just noticed your avatar. the lyrics are my imortal.

i dont see what is really wrong w/ it. even the baby wasnt meant to be born, i dont think someone should take away a baby's life. thats why theres adoptions are for .. " unwanted child " but people can adopt them ..

adoption is one of those things that we thing works but would rather not have anything to do with. for example, people say adoption is the alternative to abortion, but they don't adopt, nor do they become a foster home.

btw, your post makes absolutly no sense.

you're stupid.
what about the mother? what if she could of been president or a scientist? but maybe she couldn't because her time went to caring for a baby?
anyone can be a scientist or president.

edit//
about adoption. not everybody gets adopted can get a good life. there are enough unwanted KIDS (note, i said KIDS not babies) there who don't get adopted because people don't want to adopt kids. they want cute babies. they've been in an adoption center for too long. no one wants a kid. it's like when a little kid says they want a dog. no. they don't want a dog, they want a puppy.

I'm for the pro-choice. The mother is the one who has to carry the baby for 9 months. Not you. Not Bush. Not anyone else but the mother. How about taking that into consideration?

Those who are saying that if the mother doesn't want a baby, shouldn't have sex unless they have the money or are ready to procreate. What about a husband and wife who do use condoms but end up having a baby? You can't limit the readiness of a pregnancy in two reasons. There are surprises.

And not to offend anyone, but it pisses me off that you think the baby would have a good life. Every year, kids in adopted and foster families get abused. And even if the mother keeps the baby, how do you think the kid would react when he/she finds out his/her father was a rapist?


I'm for pro-choice because the option should remain open to women. Even if it was because of the women's carelessness, the option should still remain open. We don't have the authority to tell women what's right or wrong when it comes to their pregnancy. If abortion was banned, you're basicaly forcing women to carry the baby. And THAT is a serious voliation of their freedom.

a lot of the time when the falopian tube ruptures you either die or have a complete historecomy [spelling??] and can't have any more kids and have to be put on drugs.

yes; but if the fallopian tube ruptures an abortion wouldn't be needed, would it?

I'm PRO-LIFE. I believe that everyone deserves a chance to live. Whether the mother wants them or not, they deserve a chance. Adoption agencies can take care of the unwanted. Like plenty of people have said, I believe that from the time of conception, that is a person.

I understand that in the case of rape or incest a girl may not want the baby but that doenst mean that she should abort it. She can give it up for adoption.

I would say a lot more but, i'm not in the typing mood

Abortion is something I'm really against!!! Actually I learned something about abortion today... in India out of 8,000 Abortions on;y one was a boy... that would also get me talking about the qualities of life in such areas including culture and traditional values but I mean the fact that so many UNBORN babies are killed because they don't turn out the way you want them to??? What is up with that... If you don't want a baby don't have sex. It's as easy as that. If your raped then what happens happens let the child live and if you can't take care of it then leave it in a adoption agency. And for all of you people who are Christian , well you don't even have to be you just have to have faith, God doesn't give you anything he doesn't think you can handle.

~FRANCiS

Adoption isn't nessisarily a good thing. Children are adopted into bad homes everyday. And a lot of children don't get adopted and they go from foster house to foster house their whole lives... That's no way to live.

i am pro-choice...and for all u teenage girls who are against...y dont u put urself in the shoes of a raped 16 year old girl..wouldnt u want to give her another chance to live on her life as it was and still have a future ahead of her?......or are u gonna COMPLETELY RUIN HER WHOLE LIFE AND FORCE HER TO GO THROUGH THE PAINFUL PROCESS OF GIVING BIRTH TO A CHILD AND THEN RAISING IT?....

just think about, and put urself in her shoes

Abortion is never right. I know people that were the result of a rape and they are great people, just the same as you and me, now they lobby against the aborton of babies from rape victims b/c they are ones. There are other options anyway! You can put the Baby up for adoption for example. Abortion is not an option. You cannot kill an innocent life for your benifit, no matter what. Anyway, studies show that women who have abortions generally have higher rates of breast cancer and are traumatized for life. That isn't to te woman's benefit at all. I personally don't even condone contraception. You make your choice to either have sex or not. If you dont want a kid dont have sex! It is that simple! Those few little cells are alive! Kill it then but it's fine but kill it 9 months later, and it's murder? That dosen't make sense at all! Abortion is wrong at any stage, no if ands or buts about it.

Note to all Catholics: It goes against Dogma's of the Church to support Abortion and be a Catholic. It is an Excommunicatable offense for those of you that did't know that

But, if the government can regulate that you must have the baby if pregnate: could they regulate your sex life?

is not this a private matter?

does the government regulate whether or not..... nevermind. i was going to say marry. but then i remebered gay marragies and the incess thing.

anyways.

i think you will agree that a baby is a big thing. not trivial. and it is also private.

and should not it stay private?

They're traumatized because of people harassing them for the "sins" they've commited. 95% of people's reasons for being against abortion are religious.

The crux of the debate on abortion seems to revolve around the idea of whether or not and unborn foetus can be considered a living human being, and therefore deserves protection or not.

I personally believe that an abortion for lifestyle's sake is disgusting, but in a case of rape or severe handicap, it can be acceptable.

what does everyone think?

i think that theres abortion topics already. tsk tsk james. but ill merge this since you gave your stand

shut up nicki.



Yes, but if every unborn foetus which would have been aborted was born and put up for adoption, the system would go into overload, it wouldn't cope.

And adoption ainn't so great

just this week there was a case of a couple who killed there newly adopted 4 year old son b/c he wasn't adjusting quick enough for them by force feeding him salt

I am all for abortion, I think it is a woman's choice. I especially hate when people refuse to give women the morning after pill if they were raped, that is so unfair, it is not the woman's fault. Also if a teen gets pregnant and has no way to care for it, she should get an abortion because there are too many kids in orphanages and too many people in the world. I hate it when male priests and people like that say that women are commiting sins, I would love for them to be pregnant and see how fun it is if they aren't ready or prepared. I also think embryo's should be used for steam cell research if women donate them and don't want them. (sorry if I sound really negative and mean!)

LIKE ^ i also think its the womans choice on what she wants to me . i personally get sad when i hear how someone is going to get an abortion but hey its there choice and therre life sooo they can do what they want .

^^

Yes but should it be they're choice when it's another potential life that they are ending?

I am against abortion, it does not matter how far the baby is, it is still living. It was the girl's mistake for having sex when she shouldn't have and it is her responsibility to have to deal with the consequences of going through labor whether she decides to keep the baby or not. If she really does not want to have the baby I think she really should have to and put it up for adoption or something. But, there are some cases where I think abortion might be okay. Ex. she was rapped, she cannot physically deliver the baby, etc.

Geez...I'm placing my views...political and personal here...
Umm... touchy...
If I myself were to become pregnant, under absolutely ANY circumstance, I'd keep my baby. I don't care if I were raped, physically unable, or whatever. I'd give up whatever I had to lose with open hands.
If it were my own choices that caused me to get pregnant, I wouldn't even think about getting an abortion. Never. I believe in taking responsibilty for my actions and whatever life hands me (as far as offspring is concerned).
Politically, I think abortion should be allowed. It's going to happen either way, but if it's legal, there will be cleaner ways of performing the procedure than there would be if it were not legal. Honestly, I don't want women to have to go to a clothes hanger to relieve an emotional grievance.
Some women have been killed by men because they come up pregnant, and then two human lives are lost. Unclean abortion can give women infections and such that can cause death or unutterable physical pain. As far as my political views, I'd rather let one live than none.
But if every woman were like me, we be pretty screwed too.

i agree..
like if a woman was raped and she doesnt want to go through the complications of birth then i think she should be allowed to choose if she wants the baby or not..i dont think its fair that a woman cant choose with what she wants to do when it wasnt her fault she got preganant..and i dont think men priests or religious ppl say thats a sin b/c a woman gets a abortion..they dont know what its like for them to get pregnant when they dont want to be..

Im totally for it. The reason

-Abortion may be the last resort to save the mother's life or something
-Its their choice, let them do whatever they want
-and yes if she was raped and didnt want the rapist child, then yah she should have the right to give it up in abortion

-and it may be some medical problem with the birth or somethin so they basically must have the abortion.

or the condom could break or something. most of the time they don't, but you never know. it happens. if you're 16 and in high school and for some coincidence your condom broke, it's not sensible to have a baby. you wouldn't be able to raise it, or give it the right home. even if you give it to adoption, there's only so many people who want to adpot a baby. they might be in orphan home their whole lives. what kind of life is that?

what about rape?

wow. because everyone's opinions are such great facts to support arguments with, i think i'm anti-women's-rights now.


heard them all before. anyways...

here is a nice description of how they do the now illegal partial birth abortion which bush says is a brutal practice. it's not graphic, don't worry.

they collapse the skull and pull it out.

now here's a description of how they do the still legal regular abortion which bush doesn't say is a brutal practice. this isn't graphic either.

they cut the baby into many little pieces and pull it out.


yes, abortions are not happy things. but it's still a right what someone does with thier body, is it not?

a fetus is techically a parisite. it is a foriegn form that attempts to steal nutrition from the mother.

the mother's body tries to get rid of the fetus. it's not part of her; why would it want to keep it? however; the father's genes suppress this reaction, and it is these paternal genes that make the placenta, which subequently invades the mother's body.

The government cannot deny someone the right to medical treatment.

the removal of a parasite is medical treatment.

the governmetn cannot deny someone the right to an abortion.

As much as I'm pro-choice, as stated in earlier posts, I still believe that it is immoral.

Aside from desperation, such as in the cases where the unborn offspring holds the life and death and wellness of the mother in its existence, I cannot fathom why a mother would want to destroy, mutilate her child to-be for the sake of convenience. It makes me wonder the kinds of women who would want to go through the whole ordeal.

bleh, there's so much science involved in this. i need to do far more research before i can even attempt to make an argument.

</3 science.

So much for the miracle of life.

I made the "fetuses are really just parasites" argument with my dad once. I was practically bawling from laughter after reading this. (And it's spelled PARASITE)
Honestly, you have a frighteningly reasonable point. Fetuses are, in fact, parasites by definiton! I never did think about the abortion issue while debating that with my father. (Woah... I'm experiencing some major deja vous.) Scaryish.
I have a problem with only one thing...
Hmm... Anti-women's rights... Even though your post was brillant, I'd have to point out that little comment that lead the way...
Certainly not all women believe in abortion. In fact, there is an utterly high homocide rate of pregnant women because they refused to have an abortion. Men who would like to consider themselves "men" want the women they impregnate to relieve them of their paternal responsibilities when it all catches up with them. Sure sometimes it is the woman's choice completely, but I take offense to a GRAND extent for reject women's rights because of both of the gender's choices and mistakes.
Please re-think that...

i'm sorry... women currently have the right to choose to have or not to have an abortion.

making abortions illegal takes away that right.

it is anti-women's rights to me.

I stil have some problem with the way that sounds...

if you believe in anti-women's rights, then i say i don't believe that men should have rights either (which is basically the male equal to what you were saying), would you agree with me?
so you're saying that women shouldn't have the right to have an abortion because they're actually killing a human being...correct? but this moral doesn't apply to men?
what if i said i think we should ban all military operations just because our offensive and defensive forces are capable of killing another human being. it's the same really.
a baby is by definition a parasite to the mother's body, and a terroist is a parasite to the country it attacks.
once again i'd like to point out that being "anti-women's rights" implies that you'd prefer to deny all rights to women. no exception. i could be wrong but wouldn't that be better put, "anti-abortion rights".

To Fast Country/Southern Gospel Music

Peggy Sue got pregnant,
And was addicted to fifteen drugs,
She went to the abortion clinic,
And was accosted by right-wing thugs.

Chorus:
Oh will the fetus be aborted?
By and by, Lord, by and by.
There's a better home a-waiting,
In the sky, Lord, in the sky.

Little Mary was just eleven,
When she was raped by her own dad,
Dan Quayle said, "Have that baby,"
But another choice she had.

Chorus

Rachael's pregnancy would kill her,
Doctor's warning gave her stife,
Fundamentalists said, "Jesus take her!"
She said, "I want my right to life."

Chorus

Kathy had two kids already,
And an abortion is what she chose,
Christians showed her a bloody fetus,
She said, "That's fine, I'll have one of those."

Chorus

Tanya lived for revolution,
Wanted to overthrow the state,
She had fifteen commie babies,
Phyllis Schlafly ain't that great?

Chorus

Oh will the fetus be aborted?
By and by, Lord, by and by,
There's a better home a-waitin',
In the sky, Lord, in the sky,
Oh will the fetus be aborted?
By and by, Lord, by and by,
There's a better home a-waitin',
In the sky, Lord, in the sky,
In the sky, Lord, in the sky,
In the sky, Lord, in the sky...

True, but not completely. In some instances, the woman drives herself crazy because of the decision. Sometimes, the father doesn't want to accept the responsibility heaved upon him and therefore rejects it. This can cause the woman to choose abortion or emotional distress to the point of miscarriage.
Well, I think some of my opposing abortion in my own life is religious, but only the tiny minority. I, personally, would never have an abortion for the simple fact that (if I am to ever have children) that I will and already do love them for who they are or will be. But I see how you could say it's mostly because of religion. Basically, abortion is a sin, but so is corrupting the Sabbath, so if we oppoase abortion, let's all sit on our butts on Saturday, and make it to church on time Sunday.

i believe you miss understand me.

i do not use the terms pro-life and pro-choice. i use the terms anti-women's rights (for banning abortion) and pro-women's rights (for keeping it like it is).

this is because i consider abortion a women's rights, andif you start taking away some rights, the rest soon folllow.

i dont know too much about it. but from what i heard its very bad.

I really do hope I'm misunderstanding you, honestly.
But I wish you saw my point. Women have more rights than just this one, and using rights in the plural sense implies that you don't believe in a woman having rights. I just wish you would use a different term for this belief.
Reread your statement and think about it from a female's perspective (if you're capable of doing so), and tell me if the words you chose sound a bit chauvenistic. (Abortion isn't a "rights". It's a "right" (or better put "privilege"). So, this is why it sounds like you oppose the "rights" of women instead of this particular "right".
You say that "if you start taking away some rights, the rest will follow." So tell me... when parents of a rebellious teenager take away so much, doesn't he still act reckless? When you freeze water or boil water isn't it still water?
Or do you think that abortion in all forms will just come to an end because it's no longer legal? Smoking marijuana is also illegal, but it happens EVERY SINGLE DAY but a large amount of people. It's not going away any time soon.
Justify all that.

please read the rest of this thread.
and then reconsider
where you believe i stand on this topic.

because i think my tactics have caused you to missunderstand me.

i am argueing for keeping abortions legal.

my post (the one about the fetus being a parasite) was purposefully blunt and demeaning to the fetus.

also, i sometimes will 'argue' for the other side (than the one i'm argueing) as a debate tactic.

and the ocassional sarcasm will slip into my posts.



i said that merely because the opposision (opposed to me) was just giving opinions and not supporting them.


sorry if my posts are confusing.

OH, okay.. that makes me feel a little bit better. I understand now. Thank you

abortion is murder...that`s where i stand.

^ care to support your stand?

or do you want to just state your opinion and not debate?