I'm agaisnt Abortion, although i understand if a mother didnt want the baby but still why not just have it there is always another option other than abortion there is always Adoption, there are many other women in the world who would dream of being mothers, sometimes teenage girls that get pregant n have them wine up keeping there babies none the less take very good care of it.

ok, but there are plenty of children to adopt already.

and, you would still have to go through nine months where you might not be able to work and have an income. plus labor.

Um well thats why they pay you when you cant work when your pregnant.And being pregnant is not going to stop you from having income tax,income tax is money for the number of children you have,the more you have the more you get,and the rest is from your taxes.So what if there are plenty of children to adopt.Dont takes it life,let it live and become something.

Women do not always get paid when they're pregnant and are unable to work. What if they're not working to begin with?

And the tax return, or whatever you call it, certianly isn't enough to support a child every year.

likewise.

really now, if you don't have anything worthy to say, don't say it.

http://www.abort73.com

watch the 2nd video.

Where's the second video?

^when you first go to the site, this video comes up
and theres a link under it that tells you to cont. to the next page or video

something like that
click that.

No you get ALOT of money from income tax,It depends what you spent,whose your dealer because some may try to mess you over and it gets higher the money for every child you have.Either way you get some what of alot of money even if you only have that one child.You still get enough to support it.And also if they're not working to begin with then,thats their problem because they should be the adult or the teen they are,and get their a$$es up and take some responsebility or get welfare or something.There are options.And if they are working and since income tax is alot of money,well sometimes if you have a bad worker you will only get like 1000$ as income,but still if the woman is working and the dad is there to help and wants to be there and is working.Then there is no problem.Because a woman who is smart and will think right,will automatically go and do what they have to do for their child.Even if it means taking a crappy job or working more then one job.

ok i understand that but, still would u rather live with a gulit all ur lyfe knowing u killin an innocnet human being??? have u even seen what happens in an abortion??? its not so easy to have an abortion...n if the mother wants one i hope u knoe Abortions cost money n lyke Leon sed when ur pregnant the government supports u those whole nine months.

I've known three women who've had an abortion. My uncles ex-girlfriend, my ex-girlfriends brothers ex-girlfriend, and one of my best friend's sister.

All three of them have said that they regret every moment of it and they'll never feel the same about themselves again. They feel low and like the child's blood is on their hands. If it's just a lump of unorganized cells, then how does it cause such emotion?

we never said that a fetus couldn't cause emotional turmoil. we're here to argue that women should still have the right to make decisions about her own body.

btw, cells of a fetus are not unorganized. there's no way a random cells can build a stable foundation for a human being.

that's not an argument for pro-life or pro-choice. you're just pointing out that there's a risk of emotional turmoil for women who choose an abortion.

Let me ask you this - are you working? They should be the "teen" they are? It's not very likely for teens to work, you know, especially young teens.

"still if the woman is working and the dad is there to help and wants to be there and is working."

You need a serious grammar lessons, but I'm not here to educate you on that. I didn't understand it first, but anyway. You ever heard of single mothers? Yeah. Because that happens, buddy. You talk a lot of shit, but I would love to see how you would handle a child at your age. Honestly.

And not everyone will pay you when you're pregnat and aren't able to work.



I don't think anyone who is against abortion really responded to that.

because of right wing propoganda.

Yeahh, I know. I fully aware of what we're here to debate about, thanks.

I was kidding when I said unorganized. That's a term I've heard from an anti-life'er

OK watch your self,Because first of all where the hell do you get off saying i talk alot sh-t!?You should really be the one to talk really taylor..........................Secondly yes i do work,And i also take care of a one year old child,and i take care of her very well.But dont bring that "your not a woman so you wouldnt understand"shitty line because it takes 2 to make 1.

-Im fully aware of the fact of single mothers,i have a single mother,and i know plenty of them.To me your being closed minded not including the father because its not the father who may always leave.So check your self.

-And dont say i talk so much shit when its the other way around boo,you the one who likes to talk alot of sh-t not me,i simply tell it is like it is or say what i feel.

-Also the job has to do a whole process stating why you cant work,so while the woman is not able to work,she will still get money to pay her rent and bills.And if the babies daddy is there to support his wife,by working and buying things they need,Then there should be no problem Buddy.

hahaha tell that to the thousands of women on welfare.

ok Angelina Taylor u think Abortion is ok but have u even seen what happens to the baby when u get injected with Saline??? or have u seen a picture of a baby D&E {Dilation and Evacuation} Huh??? well guess wat most teenage girls that get an abortion end up on a bad road because of self hatered??? after they see there babies being taken out of them n placed in a bucket they begin to realized wat they have done....they took an innocent lyfe who never done nothing wrong who's only mistake was being put in a women's whom that didnt want it after that, they start hatng them self n soon they start a destructive lyfe of having sex with many men, drugs and Alcohol...they sexually abuse them self just because they think they deserve it for wat they have done...although some do, but sum dont...but still most teens give up on lyfe n just start destory what they had bulit of themselves.

!Watch this Video!
http://www.cpforlife.org/HTMLobj-2633/hardtruth.wmv

and this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPM09oJWoPU

I agree with you all the way.Nice facts i lub em.

dude lyke totally lubbable facts

that wyll change my lyfe.

I don't see you answering the other part of my post :) I wonder why that is.

I see where you're coming from. Oh and sure, you take care of a one-year-old child, but I don't think you take care of him/her the way a parent would have to. So check your "facts" again.

"But dont bring that "your not a woman so you wouldnt understand"shitty line because it takes 2 to make 1."

I don't see the father having to carry a fetus for 9 months. Am I wrong? I will say it, because it's true. You're not a woman, so you wouldn't understand.

And by the way, you talking shit is obvious from far away, but that's just my humble opinion. We're entitled to those, I hear.




Whoa, whoa, whoa, man, you already planned the whole life of a woman who just had an abortion.. hahaha. Only if it worked that way. That's not always the case though.. don't be so closed-minded in that aspect.

Yes I do know what happens. Yes I have seen pictures and whatnot. A very close friend of mine had an abortion, and I think she did the right thing. Mind you, she thinks so too. So don't jump into conclusions so fast.

Strange, no one read the second half of my post.

let's just go back to eating babies, modest proposal style.

Ok mamita watch your self and do us a favor and stop talking so much sh-t.Because really thats what your doing.

-To answer your response(s) i have to that first of all yes i do take of the one year old in a very parental way.And i can have babypeachlr tell you that because thats my best friend and she sees me watching the baby.So reallly check your self.

-And i knew you would say this "I don't see the father having to carry a fetus for 9 months. Am I wrong? I will say it, because it's true. You're not a woman, so you wouldn't understand."Typical you.

Im guessing the reason why you probaly dont include the father doing any,trying to make him sound so lowsy and bummish is because you probaly had a boyfriend,you had one of those bad break ups and he left you.So now you got that thought in your thick head thinking all fathers walk out on their wifes when they pregnant.Well not everyone of them do.

-For example did you know that the man has to deal with the wife b-tching like you do?or that he works more than he has to,so that he can buy things for the up coming baby and buy things for the house and pay rent,bills,e.t.c?!Or that he has to deal with her craving for alot of things that they probaly dont have at the local stores so he has to go all the way across town just to get it for her?I dont think so.But thats what im guessing that happened to you,your man left you and you had one of those bad break ups,and because he left you think all men leave out?Well thats just me guessing but correct me if im wrong.

To be honest, I didn't read the other 51 pages but you all seem angry at each other for believing in thier own opinion.

How can we decide a fetus inside of the someone is less important than the mother? How can we decide that?

I don't think abortion is right because, we never give it a chance to grow, that fetus you're killing could have been someone who had the solution to gobal warming or AIDS but now we'll never know, will we?

u must not read much. most of the other ppl have had good and valid counters to my stance on the subject (since this is the debate forum)... but u r just takin up space with bitchy comments like that!

with that said, back to the debate...
most of u say that ppl should quite having sex instead of killing a life, and i agree with that. but the reality is that thats not gonna happen. it would be nice if it did, cause then we would only have parents that are ready to be parents. im just being realistic.

someone also said the the overpopulation is a result of modern medicine keeping ppl alive that wouldnt be able to stay alive on thier own. i agree with that. burning down all the hospitals and killing our health care system isnt very realistic, and it shouldnt be done anyway.

ive been told (i think it was my high school history teacher) that the government in India will pay for the abortion. they do this to counter the overpopulation. its not enough to fix the problem, but it helps a little.

Oh, so I talk shit because I back up my point of view with evidence? Because I don't stereotype? Because I speak from experience? Because I'm honest? Wow.

And no, you can't possibly take care of a one-year-old as an actual parent, because I bet you aren't with the baby as much as the parents are, and also - you don't have to take care of him/her financially. Am I wrong?



Is that all you have to say? Nice.



That's such bullshit in terms of stereotyping and cliches. You think all women are like that? No, they aren't. Sure, they can be hard during that period, but they're not as bad as you think. Most of them anyway. Do you know what it's like to be pregnat? NO YOU DON'T. Will you ever? No, you won't. So shut up.



No, I'm in a relationship that has lasted more than a year and a half, so no, I don't think all men "leave".

Trust me, women have it worse than men when it comes to being pregnat/giving birth. Don't even try to make it the other way around, because you won't succeed.

Nine months of pregnancy versus eighteen (likely more) years of required economic support...

Hmmm....kinda sexist, isn't it? We have a system where a woman can decide to give birth to a child (as she should) that its father does not want anything to do with, and he can be made to financially support that child.

A woman can choose to abort a child even though its father is willing to raise it on his own and has a deep emotional connection.

The father has no choice whatsoever. That's quite sexist.

"Oh, so I talk shit because I back up my point of view with evidence? Because I don't stereotype? Because I speak from experience? Because I'm honest? Wow."
No see your jumping to terms that didnt even say,and yes you talk alot of sh-t but that right now is irellevant to the subject.

-"That's such bullshit in terms of stereotyping and cliches. You think all women are like that? No, they aren't. Sure, they can be hard during that period, but they're not as bad as you think. Most of them anyway. Do you know what it's like to be pregnat? NO YOU DON'T. Will you ever? No, you won't. So shut up."B-tch you shut up,you wanna take it there with me,then ill email you,lets not do this here because im simply trying to not get warned or my account suspended for flaming you.See thats your f-king problem you think know f-king everything.WELL GUESS WHAT,I MAY NOT KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE PREGNANT LIKE A WOMAN DOES OR GO THROUGH WHAT SHE DOES THROUGH THAT PERIOD OF TIME,BUT I DO KNOW MENTALLY

"No, I'm in a relationship that has lasted more than a year and a half, so no, I don't think all men "leave"."So by saying that and me reading that,your not stating specifically of the majority you think of men that leave so ill make the assumption of that you think alot of men leave.And no they dont.You think a man just gets a woman pregnant and not knows how she feels physcially?!He knows mentally though because he is there to support her

-And you have the damn nerve to say "And no, you can't possibly take care of a one-year-old as an actual parent, because I bet you aren't with the baby as much as the parents are, and also - you don't have to take care of him/her financially. Am I wrong?"that.Yes the hell you are wrong.Yes i do see her more then her mother does,which happens to me my mom too.I do take care of my little sister and i take care of her financially as well.Dont let the age fool you because age is nothing but a number hun.

-"Is that all you have to say? Nice."
No i didnt want to make it into a big paragraph,it was apart of what i was saying.

"Trust me, women have it worse than men when it comes to being pregnat/giving birth. Don't even try to make it the other way around, because you won't succeed."Of course they do i know that,im not stupid,But dont think the man doesnt have it bad either when the woman is pregnant because he does too.

Woot, has anyone ever told you not to bring emotion into a debate? This isn't personal.

Back on the subject:

No, I don't think I know everything. I like to think that I know some things, and this is one of them. YOU think you know everything - what a woman feels, what it's like to be pregnat, you know, all that stuff.



Unless you work full time and pay for all her needs all the time, and food and everything, I would consider myself right. Hun.



Don't make assumptions.. that's stupid. I don't think all men leave, but some sure do. You can't deny that, can you?



That's the most ignorant thing you've said so far. Chill, man. You can't know what a woman goes through mentally, because you simply can't get inside her mind/body and feel it for yourself. So I'll tell you once more - don't talk about things you don't know very well. Okay?

And, considering you refuse to answer the second part of my post from a while back, I take it that you simply can't say anything to defend your point of view. So I'm done with this.

Cheers.





It's the woman's body. And rarely do I see single fathers.. they're usually mothers. Kinda sexist, isn't it? To not let a woman abort and then to make her take care of the child herself.

america is the land of freedom and liberty, except from conservative christian ideals, apparently.

you argue about how bad abortion is, and how wrong it is, but you don't argue about what matters:

what is the justification for making abortion illegal?
and don't just say 'the things that make abortion bad'. it's not a proper arguement.

sure, abortion is evil. but why should women be denied the choice?

But it isn't just the woman's body. It is a child's body, created in part by the father's sperm.



Besides being completely irrelevant, how is that sexist? That there are more single mothers than fathers has nothing to do with this debate. There are single fathers, and that is the point here.



No one says she has to take care of it. She can give it over to the father or give it up for adoption.



How many times do I have to say it? I believe it is wrong because we're talking about killing children, human beings.

It's not a child, it's a fetus. Which is why it's the woman's body. She has the right to control it.



I was referring to my next sentence.



Single fathers are seldom seen.. Women are more likely to end up taking care of the child alone.



Well, often that's not the case. The woman has to take care of it sometimes, because the father isn't there, or she feels that she wants to keep it. It's a pretty odd feeling when you have a child. It's hard to give it up once you've had it.

How is a fetus not a human?



So? How does this change anything?




A woman never has to take care of her child.

"Woot, has anyone ever told you not to bring emotion into a debate? This isn't personal. "

Who the hell said it was personal?You wanna be a b-tch and get at me,then ima get at you back.Dont like it too bad.Im not the one bringing personal issues into boo.But w/e lets sqaush it,you wanna continue this little act you got going on there then email me or pm me.

-"That's the most ignorant thing you've said so far. Chill, man. You can't know what a woman goes through mentally, because you simply can't get inside her mind/body and feel it for yourself. So I'll tell you once more - don't talk about things you don't know very well. Okay?"Ok so through out the whole damn pregnancy if the father is there helping and seeing what she is going through,he doesnt know how it feels?!He doesnt see it mentally?!HUH?!No you need to chill mamita,because you think just because a man aint no woman he wont know what it feel like,he cant feel it physically,but mentally,and by mentally i dont mean he has to be in her mind.Because often the woman attends to express and say how she feels.

-And also until you take care of a child,wash her,clean her up,feed her,buy her things she needs,go to the store non stop,watch her all the time,i dont see you sharing a meal you would love to have to your self than giving it to someone you love and take care of all the time,NO!SO UNTIL YOU DO THAT,THEN COME TALK TO ME BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO DAMN NERVE TO SAY THAT!

-"No, I don't think I know everything. I like to think that I know some things, and this is one of them. YOU think you know everything - what a woman feels, what it's like to be pregnat, you know, all that stuff."

See your making that assumption about me,and thats where your wrong,no i do not think i know everything.But you cannot say that just because im not a woman i wont know.You know what do me a favor,since you talking so much sh-t why dont you go get pregnant,let your man either be with you or leave you,and try taking care of the baby and if your man stays lets see if he dont know what your going through.Because i do know what a woman goes through and you should read more because i said i didnt know how it felt physically,i said mentally,viewing it,hearing her having to throw up or holding her hair back while she does.And i know i dont know everything but i do know how it feels mentally.Thats all im saying.

-Btw what second half of the post you are talking about?

-"Don't make assumptions.. that's stupid. I don't think all men leave, but some sure do. You can't deny that, can you?"Yeah i know some of us men do,not all.

"u must not read much. most of the other ppl have had good and valid counters to my stance on the subject (since this is the debate forum)... but u r just takin up space with bitchy comments like that!

with that said, back to the debate...
most of u say that ppl should quite having sex instead of killing a life, and i agree with that. but the reality is that thats not gonna happen. it would be nice if it did, cause then we would only have parents that are ready to be parents. im just being realistic.

someone also said the the overpopulation is a result of modern medicine keeping ppl alive that wouldnt be able to stay alive on thier own. i agree with that. burning down all the hospitals and killing our health care system isnt very realistic, and it shouldnt be done anyway.

ive been told (i think it was my high school history teacher) that the government in India will pay for the abortion. they do this to counter the overpopulation. its not enough to fix the problem, but it helps a little."

And what are you doing now?!and it really was the dumbist sh-t i ever read so dont blame me for speaking what i felt ok?Babies are not over populating us,there are enough people that die enough each and every day,so you people need to shut your complaing and learn how to search up things because there is currently something being done about what if the world does happen to become over popultated that we would live on different planets,thats the project that we had to do in science and that some scientist are working on.

normally i don't like to cause confrontation with people on the internet. it's stupid and you never know where the person comes from.

however, i seriously think you need to calm down and chill.

i agree with Angelina Taylor. men will never know what's it's like to carry a fetus for nine months. you think men have it bad because he has to cater to the women? bullshit. not all women have to deal with cravings or huge mood swings. men have it easy, truthfully. you are ignorant to assume that the father has to deal with the same amount of stress a mother has too. during her pregnancy and afterwards, the woman's health is dependent on how the pregnancy is. just cause the women tell the men how they feel, the men know what the women go through mentally? if someone told you how they felt when they lost their limbs, would you know how it really feels? BULL BULL BULL. i'm offended that you would ascend a father to the same role as a mother when it comes to a pregnancy. a father can definitely be more loving or more important than a mother. but that would never happen when it comes to the actualy pregnancy.



this is where i disagree with Taylor on. i respect you for taking care of your sister and juggling way more responsibility than you really need to.

what i do not respect is that you've taken to calling her names when she has remained constantly civil towards you. it does not help your case and weakens your argument.

teen fathers do tend to abandon their child more.






AHAHA. i'm sorry. that's just the "dumbist shit" i've ever read.

even though scientists are trying to find ways to live on other planets, most agree that unless there's a major breakthrough, it's a highly unlikely situation. it would cost so much money that practically alll of the world's citizens would be unable to afford to go, even if it was government sponsored. because most governments can't even afford their own space explorations. issues such as oxygen supply, communications, government, etc., come into question. scientist favor more practical solutions such as manmade land and making better use of our present resources.

and no, there are more births than deaths. according to the Population Reference Bureau, globally, there are 4.4 births per second while there is 1.8 deaths per sec. how would that ever balance out? it's only balanced out within developed countries, which sadly, is only a select few.



then women have no obligation to carry the fetus to term. because, essentially, giving a fetus a healthy development and birth is caring for it.

so women never have to keep the fetus.

*sigh*

A fetus is not fully human while it's in the woman's womb. That's my personal opinion, dwell on it if you want, but it still won't change.

It doesn't "change" anything. I was only saying that single fathers are rare.

No, she doesn't have to, but most times she ends up doing it.

Well, you apparently think it's personal. I'm not being "a bitch and getting at you", I'm simply saying what you don't like, so you feel the need to insult. Very feeble. I don't think you understand the idea of difference in opinions.




No, he doesn't. Can he actually BE in her body and see how it feels like? No. Even if she shares it, you will still have no idea. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you DON'T know everything.



Chill, buddy. If you yell at me one more time like that, I'll seriously stop replying. You're just getting VERY annoying. And please, I've had to take care of a child for two full summers - summer of 2002 and summer of 2004. So don't give me that bullshit. I know what it's like.



Yes, I can say that just because you're not a woman, you won't know. And I'm not making assumptions. I'm summing up what you've said. Would I be right if I said, "Even though I'm not a guy, I know how it feels like to be kicked in the balls because I've heard guys share it, and I've seen them suffer?" No, right? Because I don't have balls :)



To everyone who said the fetus has rights or is human:

A fetus does not have a right to be in the womb of any woman, but is only in there by her permission. This permission may be revoked by the woman at any time. Rights are not permissions; permissions are not rights. This permission is given by the woman, because it is her body -- and not the fetus's body, and certainly not the government's body.

To give a fetus "rights" superior to a pregnant woman is to eradicate the woman's right to her body. The principle here is: any right that contradicts the right of another cannot be a right, as rights form an integrated whole. Contrary to the opinion of anti-lifers (falsely called "pro-lifers" as they are against the life of the actual human being involved) a woman is not a breeding pig.

"Isn't the fetus "life", and therefore has a right to life?"

You are equivocating on the term "life" which is a concept that includes everything that is living. Dogs are "life" but they do not have rights. What about ants? So are trees "life", yet they do not have rights (contrary to the mouthing of man-hating environmentalists). Rights only apply to human beings, and not to human tissue.

Rights apply to human beings, because only human beings survive by the use of reason (unlike dogs, trees, ants -- and fetuses). Rights only apply to human beings, because only human beings -- and not parts of beings -- survive by reason. Please keep in mind what a right is: a right is a moral sanction for freedom of action in a social context. A fetus has no rights, as it does not need freedom to take any actions, but survives on the sustenance of its host. The only action it must take is nothing, i.e., wait for itself to develop using the sustenance provided by its host.

http://www.capitalism.org/faq/abortion.htm




Excuse me? Except the first time when I "debated" with you, have you seen me call you a bitch? No. Have you seen me insult you in every point I make? No :) So I don't think you know what you're talking about.



I'm sorry, is this directed to me? Because I don't think I ever said that abortion is alright BECAUSE the world is overpopulated. Can't you read?

And by the way, I'm proud of you for spelling it "dumbist shit".. HAHAHAHAHA.. really makes a point.

chill out. that wasnt directed to u.

there are some people that wont feel guilt all their ''lyfe.''

some people think that it isnt a human being until it is actually born. yes i have seen what happens, and it doesnt bother me. if its a persons choice, and they can handle the consequences, they should be able to. just because abortions are legal, doesnt mean everyone has to have one.

do you really think its right to withold peoples rights?




exactly.

"normally i don't like to cause confrontation with people on the internet. it's stupid and you never know where the person comes from"
True but if they wanna come out nasty then im going to get nasty right back.

"however, i seriously think you need to calm down and chill."
-I am calm.

"what i do not respect is that you've taken to calling her names when she has remained constantly civil towards you. it does not help your case and weakens your argument"

All im saying is that i would of kept my cool if she wouldnt have came out nasty to me.So what am i apose to do?be like all those other people who hate her and talk all that crap about her and not tell it to her because they afraid?No ima speak my mind.

-"i agree with Angelina Taylor. men will never know what's it's like to carry a fetus for nine months. you think men have it bad because he has to cater to the women? bullshit. not all women have to deal with cravings or huge mood swings. men have it easy, truthfully. you are ignorant to assume that the father has to deal with the same amount of stress a mother has too. during her pregnancy and afterwards, the woman's health is dependent on how the pregnancy is. just cause the women tell the men how they feel, the men know what the women go through mentally? if someone told you how they felt when they lost their limbs, would you know how it really feels? BULL BULL BULL. i'm offended that you would ascend a father to the same role as a mother when it comes to a pregnancy. a father can definitely be more loving or more important than a mother. but that would never happen when it comes to the actualy pregnancy. [/size][/font]
[font=Georgia][size=1]this is where i disagree with Taylor on. i respect you for taking care of your sister and juggling way more responsibility than you really need to. "

Ok if you women think thats true,then go have sex with a woman honestly,thats how i feel,and have a baby with a woman.Because maybe then the relationship can escalate on whether both parents know how it feels to be pregnant,than having a father to be there,but that can happen right?I know men have it easy im not saying all the time though.But how can they take all the credit when it takes 2 to make 1?!even if a dude doesnt know how it feels to be pregnant and never will?!Now that i think is bull.The way i see it for now,is that,you or her are not going to change the way i feel about it,and im not going to change how you feel about it.But that still doesnt change how he can imagine how it must feel,mentally,if he is there right beside her,whether she is sick,throwing up,swelled feet,or having hard problems with the baby,so your saying he wont know sh-t about how even a little how it must feel to be like that?none at all?!Then i find that retarted and un-fair.

-'a father can definitely be more loving or more important than a mother. but that would never happen when it comes to the actualy pregnancy. "How can you clarify that as a true fact?If you can,shut me up,and show me the proof.

-"so women never have to keep the fetus."So then women or men dont have to have sex either

-"you are ignorant to assume that the father has to deal with the same amount of stress a mother has too."No i believe your ignorant for stating that,because its just like saying men will always be stronger than women which is not true,just like you said a father never has to deal with the same amount a stress a mother has to,that aint true either.

-"Excuse me? Except the first time when I "debated" with you, have you seen me call you a bitch? No. Have you seen me insult you in every point I make? No :) So I don't think you know what you're talking about."

Ok since you feel so strongly about it just like any other person probaly would,Ill apologize,but you have to know,im the type ill say what i feel and that dont come out nasty to me and i wont come out nasty to you simple as that.So therefore i apologize for calling you a bitch.Just next time dont come out nasty to me.

-"No, he doesn't. Can he actually BE in her body and see how it feels like? No. Even if she shares it, you will still have no idea. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you DON'T know everything."

OK let me ask you something,do you see me on here posting "im the smartest person in the world,i know everything"?! no,alright then.But like i said if you women feel so strongly about it,go have sex with another woman,and try and have a baby.So you both really know hows it feels to have a baby since both of you would be capable of having a baby.So then you wont complain,and a father wont have to be there and have to stand there having no option or no saying in whether he wants to keep his child or not,which is f-ked up.

"Chill, buddy. If you yell at me one more time like that, I'll seriously stop replying. You're just getting VERY annoying. And please, I've had to take care of a child for two full summers - summer of 2002 and summer of 2004. So don't give me that bullshit. I know what it's like."

Im not yelling,and i feel that your getting very annoying too.Ok since you claimed to have taken care of a child for two summers,thats just the summer,try doing it every single day from now on in your life.TRY IT.See how it feels then.

-"Yes, I can say that just because you're not a woman, you won't know. And I'm not making assumptions. I'm summing up what you've said. Would I be right if I said, "Even though I'm not a guy, I know how it feels like to be kicked in the balls because I've heard guys share it, and I've seen them suffer?" No, right? Because I don't have balls :)"

That is true,but that doesnt stop from how i feel because what your saying is that,the male can just be there watching what your going through,and he wont have the slitest idea of how it feels?I dont think so.

"I'm sorry, is this directed to me? Because I don't think I ever said that abortion is alright BECAUSE the world is overpopulated. Can't you read"

No that wasnt directed to you,It was directed to BlueDevilMax007,for saying im wasting space when he or she could have told me that by pm'ing me.So BlueDevilMax007 just really shut up.Your the one who is wasting space.Over population because of baby's?!bull sh-t.


"To everyone who said the fetus has rights or is human:

A fetus does not have a right to be in the womb of any woman, but is only in there by her permission. This permission may be revoked by the woman at any time. Rights are not permissions; permissions are not rights. This permission is given by the woman, because it is her body -- and not the fetus's body, and certainly not the government's body.

To give a fetus "rights" superior to a pregnant woman is to eradicate the woman's right to her body. The principle here is: any right that contradicts the right of another cannot be a right, as rights form an integrated whole. Contrary to the opinion of anti-lifers (falsely called "pro-lifers" as they are against the life of the actual human being involved) a woman is not a breeding pig.

"Isn't the fetus "life", and therefore has a right to life?"

You are equivocating on the term "life" which is a concept that includes everything that is living. Dogs are "life" but they do not have rights. What about ants? So are trees "life", yet they do not have rights (contrary to the mouthing of man-hating environmentalists). Rights only apply to human beings, and not to human tissue.

Rights apply to human beings, because only human beings survive by the use of reason (unlike dogs, trees, ants -- and fetuses). Rights only apply to human beings, because only human beings -- and not parts of beings -- survive by reason. Please keep in mind what a right is: a right is a moral sanction for freedom of action in a social context. A fetus has no rights, as it does not need freedom to take any actions, but survives on the sustenance of its host. The only action it must take is nothing, i.e., wait for itself to develop using the sustenance provided by its host"

Ok the way i see,and i dont care if you say it is wrong,but how the hell can you say its not a living thing,because if you get kicked in the stomach while pregnant over and over,the baby will die.If you get stabed in the stomach,you and the baby can die.If you fall on your stomach the baby can die.So then how can you state its not a living thing when perhaps,you are pregnant with it,so something inside of it,is infact alive,because you are.Thats how i see it.

"And by the way, I'm proud of you for spelling it "dumbist shit".. HAHAHAHAHA.. really makes a point."And some of you wonder why i called her a b-tch.Taylor,this is a debate where i can choose how i spell things.Ok?

Have you ever had sex?



Um yes it's true that the mother has to deal with more amount of stress than the father DURING THE PREGNANCY, and during GIVING birth. Unless you ever have a kid coming right out of your ass, I suggest you don't make those comparisons.




No, I don't see you posting that, but I sure get that impression from the way you handle yourself. And who said it's catasrophic that the father doesn't know how it feels like? Me and Endless Symphony were merely stating that a man CANNOT truly know how it feels like. Just like the balls incident I referred to.




Well I believe you've been doing it for less than a year. So how can you compare it really? I had 6 full months of dealing with her (my cousin), plus additional holidays when I'd have to. And I'm not even counting the times I've had to watch her over weekends and just days when her parents haven't been there. Mind you, she's 10. So really, don't give me that "your whole life" bullshit. When you do it for that long (your "whole" life), then tell me.



He will have a slight idea of how it feels, but no man will ever know how it feels to be PREGNAT. Or how much it hurts to be in labour. Just like we can't ever fully know what it will be like to be kicked in the balls.



This wasn't whether the fetus is alive or not. Did you read it? It talks about living things having RIGHTS. Nowhere did it say that it isn't a living thing.



Okay, so this is making a point.. Since it's a debate, you can choose to look as stupid as you want.. or what? Don't bother answering, I'm just playing.

Sorry, it's just that sometimes I say what's on my mind without thinking that it's harsh. Sound familiar?

you called her a bitch. i could quote you cursing at her but that's just a waste of time.



first of all... a woman can't make another woman pregnant. and also, just cause they are both women, doesn't mean that they would understand what it feels like to be pregnant. someone has to live through the experience to feel it. just like how Angelina Taylor said women would never feel what it is like to be kicked in the balls, men would never know how it feels like to push a small watermelon through a four inch hole. i'm not saying Angelina Taylor and I know what giving birth feels like but most of the female population has learned to expect this out of her future life. i think most women would be offended by your comments that a father who deals with the woman's swelled feet and morning sickness can compare to actually having to carry a baby. imagine something can grossly underestimate the real deal. why don't you imagine what it's like to have your arm chopped off and then do it for real to see if what you imagined compares to the real deal. by just saying you can imagine what someone might feel like through an ordeal makes a joke out of a lot of people's expereince.

do you know what it's like to have a terminally ill disease? sure you can imagine it's scary and painful. maybe you do or maybe you don't.

you were angry at Angelina Taylor for assuming it's easy to take care of your sister or that you don't really do that much. you got angry at her for something you're arguing against. Angelina Taylor never had to take care of your sister so she doesn't know what you have to go through. just like men would never be pregnant so they don't know what it's like. sure they know the basics like the physically changes and mentality. but pregnant women go through it every sec for several months. a father to just leave for a few minutes, hours, or days, or months , or forever...



valid point there... women and men don't have to have sex. but history's attempts to control moral has failed. look at prohibition in the 1920s. look at the drastically impacts it had. increased organized crime that the government still has to deal with. a larger gap between those who moonshined and profitted off an illegal substance. the debt we acquired from enforcing such a stupid amendment.

before abortion and contraceptives were legal, women committed suicide and did harm to themselves and the fetus in an attempt to lose it. if you force people into a desperate corner, they will take desperate measures.

you cannot place a fetus's rights above a woman. if the fetus has rights, it opens up the door to a whole new world of legal issues. if abortion is murder, then a miscarriage can be investigated for neglect.

banning abortion who not only screw over women but also doctors, the government, drug companies, etc..

what's so wrong about leaving the option open with strict guidelines and rules?

"Sorry, it's just that sometimes I say what's on my mind without thinking that it's harsh. Sound familiar?"

Yeah,thats just like me,but i wont come out my way and say something harsh to you,but ill say it to my self,because its the way we feel correct?

"Okay, so this is making a point.. Since it's a debate, you can choose to look as stupid as you want.. or what? Don't bother answering, I'm just playing."

"Have you ever had sex?"
You just askede me a question thats personal to me,so i wouldnt feel comfortable posting it up here.So ill say,maybe i did,maybe i didnt.

"Um yes it's true that the mother has to deal with more amount of stress than the father DURING THE PREGNANCY, and during GIVING birth. Unless you ever have a kid coming right out of your ass, I suggest you don't make those comparisons."

I dont think so about the pregnancy,and i have reasons why,but ill save that till later.But during giving birth,hell yeah of course she does.But the way endless made it seem because she didnt state specifically or neither did you,correct me if you did because i may have read wrong,That just during the pregnancy,to me since she didnt state it entirely,im thinking she means in general,that women have to deal with more stress then men which either way i still think is not true.

"This wasn't whether the fetus is alive or not. Did you read it? It talks about living things having RIGHTS. Nowhere did it say that it isn't a living thing."

But you clearly stated in previous post,that a fetus is not a living thing.Thats why i had said what i did.

"Well I believe you've been doing it for less than a year. So how can you compare it really? I had 6 full months of dealing with her (my cousin), plus additional holidays when I'd have to. And I'm not even counting the times I've had to watch her over weekends and just days when her parents haven't been there. Mind you, she's 10. So really, don't give me that "your whole life" bullshit. When you do it for that long (your "whole" life), then tell me."

No to correct you i have been doing this more than a year,she was not the only child i have ever watched nor the only one im continuing to watch.Shes going to be 2 next week or 2 weeks.My cousin now turning 5 soon,ive watch her ever since she was a baby,I've done all that parental stuff.Trust me i wouldnt lie on something like that.

"first of all... a woman can't make another woman pregnant. and also, just cause they are both women, doesn't mean that they would understand what it feels like to be pregnant. someone has to live through the experience to feel it. just like how Angelina Taylor said women would never feel what it is like to be kicked in the balls, men would never know how it feels like to push a small watermelon through a four inch hole. i'm not saying Angelina Taylor and I know what giving birth feels like but most of the female population has learned to expect this out of her future life. i think most women would be offended by your comments that a father who deals with the woman's swelled feet and morning sickness can compare to actually having to carry a baby. imagine something can grossly underestimate the real deal. why don't you imagine what it's like to have your arm chopped off and then do it for real to see if what you imagined compares to the real deal. by just saying you can imagine what someone might feel like through an ordeal makes a joke out of a lot of people's expereince.

do you know what it's like to have a terminally ill disease? sure you can imagine it's scary and painful. maybe you do or maybe you don't.

you were angry at Angelina Taylor for assuming it's easy to take care of your sister or that you don't really do that much. you got angry at her for something you're arguing against. Angelina Taylor never had to take care of your sister so she doesn't know what you have to go through. just like men would never be pregnant so they don't know what it's like. sure they know the basics like the physically changes and mentality. but pregnant women go through it every sec for several months. a father to just leave for a few minutes, hours, or days, or months , or forever..."

Thats what i was saying if you read what i said correctly,i said since you women complain that us men wont know the pain or things like that and so go have sex with another woman,which you cant.Thats what i was saying.Thats why i said it takes 2 to make 1.

"you were angry at Angelina Taylor for assuming it's easy to take care of your sister or that you don't really do that much. you got angry at her for something you're arguing against. Angelina Taylor never had to take care of your sister so she doesn't know what you have to go through. just like men would never be pregnant so they don't know what it's like. sure they know the basics like the physically changes and mentality. but pregnant women go through it every sec for several months. a father to just leave for a few minutes, hours, or days, or months , or forever..."

Actually no i wasnt,i was mad at the fact that she made it seem easy without stating that she has ever did that which she previously stated after i said so,that she took care of a child for 2 summers.

"sure they know the basics like the physically changes and mentality. but pregnant women go through it every sec for several months. a father to just leave for a few minutes, hours, or days, or months , or forever..."

You just said what i was stating but in other words.I said Fathers will not know physically,they will know mentally thats all im saying because you both made it seem like all we do is stand there and watch you be pregnant without knowing what your going through because we do.Not physically but mentally.

"you called her a bitch. i could quote you cursing at her but that's just a waste of time. "

I know i called her that

"valid point there... women and men don't have to have sex. but history's attempts to control moral has failed. look at prohibition in the 1920s. look at the drastically impacts it had. increased organized crime that the government still has to deal with. a larger gap between those who moonshined and profitted off an illegal substance. the debt we acquired from enforcing such a stupid amendment.

before abortion and contraceptives were legal, women committed suicide and did harm to themselves and the fetus in an attempt to lose it. if you force people into a desperate corner, they will take desperate measures.

you cannot place a fetus's rights above a woman. if the fetus has rights, it opens up the door to a whole new world of legal issues. if abortion is murder, then a miscarriage can be investigated for neglect.

banning abortion who not only screw over women but also doctors, the government, drug companies, etc.."

Drug companies dont really help you get an abortion,they sell birth control pills.And instead of having a baby and having an abortion,why not just get your tubes tied before you have sex?

Actually yes i can place a babys rights above a womans because,lets say i made the baby with her,i should have a saying too,i wouldnt care as in my personal perspective.

-What if that baby the woman killed found the cure for aids?or was the next president in 40 years or so?What if that baby was a person who one day convinced people to stop all wars and world wars?What if the baby became the next best actor?That baby could of became something.Seriouslly they shouldnt treat a baby or call it a fetus because it makes it seems like its just a pile of shit in your stomach!thats what makes me so mad.

And how so would it screw the government when the government passed the law?I dont get that,you cant even trust the government,give into them too much,they will f--k you over,or probaly scam you or w/e.

"what's so wrong about leaving the option open with strict guidelines and rules?"I dont know if your talking about abortion as the option but if you are,Some of you claimed the mother can die when giving birth of the baby,well having an abortion as well,or any other surgery

Because what if the doctor accidently left a surgery tool inside of you?You could catch a disease.What if they killed you on purpose and went to jail with it.People are phyco thats what i seem to see that some of fail to understand.Anything can happen in that operation room.Anything.

[quote name='NinjaxMageLayouts' date='Jul 6 2006, 5:30 PM' post='2136349']

"Have you ever had sex?"
You just askede me a question thats personal to me,so i wouldnt feel comfortable posting it up here.So ill say,maybe i did,maybe i didnt. [/quote]

I don't think you have :) Because if you had, you wouldn't have that opinion.

[quote]I dont think so about the pregnancy,and i have reasons why,but ill save that till later.But during giving birth,hell yeah of course she does.But the way endless made it seem because she didnt state specifically or neither did you,correct me if you did because i may have read wrong,That just during the pregnancy,to me since she didnt state it entirely,im thinking she means in general,that women have to deal with more stress then men which either way i still think is not true. [/quote]

You have no reasons. Because it's nothing that you can argue. Just give up, because seriously - you won't win. You will never know what it's like to be pregnat.. mentally or physically. End of story. And no, we didn't mean that women have more stress than men.. I'm not that ignorant, sorry.

[quote]
But you clearly stated in previous post,that a fetus is not a living thing.Thats why i had said what i did. [/quote]

Where did I say that? Sorry, I've just forgotten. Please show me and I'll apologize then. Point it out for me.

[quote]No to correct you i have been doing this more than a year,she was not the only child i have ever watched nor the only one im continuing to watch.Shes going to be 2 next week or 2 weeks.My cousin now turning 5 soon,ive watch her ever since she was a baby,I've done all that parental stuff.Trust me i wouldnt lie on something like that. [/quote]

It's my choice to believe something over the net, and I don't think I can believe that you watched those kids like an actual parent and that you took care of them financially, like a parent. And I don't just mean buying them candy. Don't argue.. it's my choice to believe what I want.


[quote]Thats what i was saying if you read what i said correctly,i said since you women complain that us men wont know the pain or things like that and so go have sex with another woman,which you cant.Thats what i was saying.Thats why i said it takes 2 to make 1. [/quote]

We don't "complain", we simply STATE that you cannot know. Jesus.. I have to repeat myself over and over..

[/quote]You just said what i was stating but in other words.I said Fathers will not know physically,they will know mentally thats all im saying because you both made it seem like all we do is stand there and watch you be pregnant without knowing what your going through because we do.Not physically but mentally. [/quote]

I don't see how you can, considering that you have never been, and never will be, pregnat. That's just my PERSONAL opinion.


[quote]Drug companies dont really help you get an abortion,they sell birth control pills.And instead of having a baby and having an abortion,why not just get your tubes tied before you have sex?

Actually yes i can place a babys rights above a womans because,lets say i made the baby with her,i should have a saying too,i wouldnt care as in my personal perspective. [/quote]

Now you've gone too far. You're violating the WOMAN'S right of her OWN body. You can't do that.. Please read the article I provided for you from the site. I don't think you quite understood what it meant. And sure, the man made the baby with her, but the man doesn't have to carry the baby for 9 months, does he? That's just the way it is.

[quote] What if that baby the woman killed found the cure for aids?or was the next president in 40 years or so?What if that baby was a person who one day convinced people to stop all wars and world wars?What if the baby became the next best actor?That baby could of became something.Seriouslly they shouldnt treat a baby or call it a fetus because it makes it seems like its just a pile of shit in your stomach!thats what makes me so mad. [/quote]

Oh relax and stop fantasizing. That's too overdramatic..

[quote]And how so would it screw the government when the government passed the law?I dont get that,you cant even trust the government,give into them too much,they will f--k you over,or probaly scam you or w/e. [/quote]

Let me tell you a story. I heard this on the news two weeks ago. There is a woman, I forgot where - but I do know that it's illegal for her to abort there. The doctors have found that she has tumour, but she's pregnat as well. She made a request to abort so that she can begin treatment, but it was denied.. and now she's dying.

Would you still place the fetus' "rights" above the woman?

[quote]Because what if the doctor accidently left a surgery tool inside of you?You could catch a disease.What if they killed you on purpose and went to jail with it.People are phyco thats what i seem to see that some of fail to understand.Anything can happen in that operation room.Anything.
[/quote]

Doctors are doctors for a reason. They're not morons - they won't leave a "tool" inside of you. What the hell is that? Again, don't be so overdramatic.

So because you're not capable of exercising self-control, she must not be either?

Who's "she"?

I'm sorry, I meant "he". My comment remains valid.

Oops sorry. And I do have self-control, thanks.. I'm only 17 after all. But to not have sex all your life is something that not many people would appreciate/be willing to do :) Maybe except for people who've never had sex.

mentality is just a frame of mind. you can simply say, "if i was pregnant, i would feel stressed, anxious, nervous, upset...etc."

but you wouldn't really actually ever know what it feels like to be in a pregnant woman's shoes. you can summarize the gist of it with common run of the mill emotions. you can feel what it's like to be a man or a father taking care of a pregnant woman and being part of the process but you could never feel what it's like to be pregnant. i said a man can know the basics of the physical changes (anyone could if they researched it) and the basics of the emotions/state of mind a woman goes through.

i could say that if i got kicked in the balls, i would feel immense pain... but that means nothing compared to what guys really go through, wouldn't it? i could say i would be angry at the person, but that's too simple.

once again, a man would NEVER know what it is to be pregnant. i'm not saying a man isn't important, so why do you insist on arguing that you understand and know what pregnant women feel? why do insist on taking over the woman's part of reproduction? don't say you aren't because you are constantly arguing that a man can feel what it feels like to be pregnant. like you actually can experience the woman's part of the cycle of life.

get over it. i never said the father wasn't important but being pregnant and carrying the child is solely a female's role and only she could experience that situation. all a man can say is that he can imagine it by basing it on basics that generally everyone can feel.

one example that a man would never experience pregnancy, physically or emotionally or mentally, is that after a pregnancy, a woman can go through Post Partum Depression. it's a overhaul of hormones, emotions, and mentality.

some people don't want to get their tubes tied because they can't have children. tube tying is very dangerous and messy. why don't men get vasotomies? it's much safer and they still can have sex.

there is an abortion pill. what i meant by drug companies getting sued is that there have been over the counter pills that had caused miscarriages. it was all an accident. if we gave fetuses rights, drug companies could be charged with murder or manslaughter.

you would place the fetus's rights above the woman's? then, i whole heartedly feel sorry for any girl you go out with. god forbid, if you two make a mistake and something happens, you would value the fetus' rights above the woman's? it easy for you to do that because you DON'T HAVE TO CARRY THE DAMN THING FOR MONTHS.

that 'killing future scientists or saviors' is a bullshit theory and you should be ashamed to even use it. those what if situations only apply if it was feasible. and hey, we also allowed future criminals (which is more likely since men born to teenager mothers have a higher chance of ending up in jail) and evil people. and yes, it would screw over the government. they would have to enforce the abortion law and spend money that is already stretched too thin by Katrina and the war and various other expenses. they would also have to deal with the aftermath of forcing women into a corner where they do not have control of their bodies anymore. the government would have to deal with higher suicide rates and more mental disorders that women would suffer from because of the stress and anxiety.

funny how men are so willing to do this when women are the ones that would bear the blunt of the punishment.

i love children. i do. i want to be an ob-gyn. but i am pro-choice. i want abortion to still remain legal but have strict guidelines (such as a waiting period, counseling, limits on how many abortions woman can get).

if a doctor who was grossly stupid gave a woman a poor diagnosis and the baby was lost... couldn't he be charged with manslaughter as well as neglience?

sure, a woman could die from an abortion as well as childbirth, but that's the choice the woman should make herself. she knows the risks and she should accept the consequences.