Replace the word wrong with cowardly. Is it wrong to let someone else die in your place?

I will not make any judgements about your aunt's case since I don't know any details at all.

In any case, I still believe that abortion in all cases is wrong, but I think what senor acid posted would be a good step in the right direction and a feasible goal to work towards in future legislative discussions. I think that if we completely banned abortions all of a sudden, people would react violently.

And you asked if I was "capable of reading"... hahaha. Ah, the irony.

It doesn't matter who she quoted, she said that people told her those things throughout the thread, NOT that she supported that line of argument. My "Whaaattt?" was to emphasize the fact that you didn't understand what you quoted because you were trying to refute someone who was pro-choice.

To answer your question, yes, Ms. Taylor, I know how to read just fine, though it should be obvious now right?

you would agree on forced abortions?

I`m for abortion. Not that I would do it, but people have the rights to do what they wish. They must have a reason why they want abortion, and I think we need to respect that. Abortion is wrong no doubts, but we still need to respect people`s decisions. Right? ehh its my opinion..

Yeah, yeah, I didn't read it properly, oh what a stupid little girl I am.




HAHA, I'm not mean, I'm just being my usual self.

Taylor``

No, I don't agree with abortions whatsoever.

I was kind of expecting an apology, but I guess I'll just have to get over this one on my own.

I think abortion is just plain wrong.Because if you have one,then you take away your childs life.Which is really sad,because they should have the right to be brought into this world and to live its life.Like if an 18 year old girl cry's because her bf got her pregnant and now she wants an abortion,NO!why do that,if your going to cry,then next time consider using a condom.But taking a childs life is just.....

What about cases of rape or incest?

Get over what? That wasn't an insult :) Sorry, but I get a little hot-headed over issues like this one.

Taylor``



Um. Condoms break. Pills don't always work. Even if you use both, you're still not 100% safe. So don't say "Next time consider using a condom", because some people use condoms AND birth control pills and still get pregnat.

Taylor``

Even though that is true,that doesnt matter.Getting pregnant is one thing but taking a childs life is just ridiculous because you can always give it up for adoption,besides killing it.Or dont have sex at all.But i can understand if the girl was raped,thats something really different if she becomes pregnant then but still its stupid because they some say its not giving up their baby but what,is it easy to just kill it?thats just bs to me.

why not?

in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mothers life, simply require abortions.

in all other cases, prohibit them.

it wouldn't allow for casual abortions then.

and i think we'll throw in babies out of wedlock. require abortions for those too.

It's a life that the girl MADE. So I think she has a choice whether she wants to give it up or not. It's not for you to say. "Even thought that's true, it doesn't matter"? I don't think so. It does matter.

"Don't have sex at all"? Well, newsflash.. people do have sex. It's not something that they'll stop doing. And mistakes do happen.

"But i can understand if the girl was raped,thats something really different if she becomes pregnant then but still its stupid because they some say its not giving up their baby".

Getting raped and having an abortion is stupid? THAT's stupid. If I were in that situation, there's no chance in hell that I'd keep the baby.

Taylor``

I think that abortions are completly wrong. Just think you might be killing the next president or the next person to discover a cure for some deadly desciese..Please be against abortion. These poor infants need a chance to live life and experience all the wonderful things it can bring. I mean if you don't want to have to take care of it just put it up for adoption. It's better than not giving it a chance to live at all. Right?

I would like to see how you would deal with being pregnat at 15.

Taylor``

Honestly I know for a fact I would have the child because I am a Christian and to me abortion is SIN. I would be afraid of going to hell if I did not have the child.

well, the chances are better that you're killing the next timothy mcvay or the next unibomber.

but; i do appreciate your stance. as long as you don't try to force people to not get abortions, it's fine by me. convince them all you like, as long as they get the final decision.

Ah. That's your choice. I'd rather not ruin my life though.

Taylor``

Thanks for understanding.

Well thats you,you dont want a child to "ruin your life"But why throw a baby's life away EVEN IF YOU WERE RAPED.YOU KNOW HOW STUPID THAT SOUNDS TO ME RIGHT NOW!thing like this just piss me off....thats just f**king wrong.And i know people have sex but there is also a thing called abstonince (cant spell sorry)Where you just purify your self or something and dont have sex at all.

-But thats just plain f**ked up if you just want to throw your baby's life away for those damn stupid a$$ reasons.KEEP THE BABY,JUST GIVE IT UP FOR ADOPTION.Why kill it when it should be allowed to breath like we do today.Or see what we see today?!thats just really wrong..abortion is a stupid thing.Regardless whether its not for me to say because the girl made that life.But it takes a man to bring that baby life inside her too.So therefor one should have a saying.Really and who ever puts death for their baby without no thought of not killing it i say should slit their own throat.You the good things for you kid first than to decide "oh ima just kill the damn thing with an abortion"BS i say BS

"And i know people have sex but there is also a thing called abstonince (cant spell sorry)Where you just purify your self or something and dont have sex at all."

Sorry, but I doubt many people would do that :) It's a personal choice. Who are you to tell someone to do that if they don't want children? Sex is too good for some people.

"But why throw a baby's life away EVEN IF YOU WERE RAPED."

I would love to see how you would deal with being raped. And I'd love to see how you'd handle being a dad at 15. Or however old you are.

You're not a woman, so you wouldn't understand. You don't have to carry the baby, do you, smartass?

Taylor``

calm down there.

let's try again, but slower now.

what exactly is your problem with other people having abortions?

"I would love to see how you would deal with being raped. And I'd love to see how you'd handle being a dad at 15. Or however old you are."

Im not even going to answer that.and im the smart ass?yeah ok w/e...and the point is not a woman having to carry the baby its the matter of the fact is killing the baby.But what ever,i said what i had to say in my defense.

"calm down there.

let's try again, but slower now.

what exactly is your problem with other people having abortions?"

Yeah sorry its just that its just a really sad thing to kill a baby and take its life away.And not only that but i almost lost my little sister because she was burned badly from boiling water.And i always see those stupid commericials of a 17 year old girl crying because she didnt have safe sex and turned out pregnant and then she wanted an abortion,THATS NOT FAIR.Think about the child first.Thats my problem with other peopel having abortions.It may not be my child but really they should consider something else before having an abortion.Some make it seem so damn easy to just go and have an abortion but tell me this which is worse,killing your baby,or givign it up for adoption?I see its worse to kill it.Well thats my opinion to it and yeah everyone is entitled to their own opinion.I just cant stand the fact that STUPID girls ahem not gonna mention no names,really actually act like they dont care wth happens to the baby as long as they dont have it so it wont ruin their lives when they are actually to me living in fear of what might happen after.If they would be able to manage taking care of the baby,being there for it e.t.c thats my problem.

Killing a baby is heartless. If you can't handle a baby, you should give it up for adoption, or not have sex! Otherwise, use protection, and be careful.
Getting raped is scary, yeah, but why should the baby suffer, too? Every life is important.

do you know you can transplant an embryo?

so how about this.

embryo transpants.

the embryo is removed, pretty much intact. if some pro-life woman steps forward, then it's implanted in her.

if no one does, then the baby dies.

you and i both know how many embryos are going to be implanted. and it's not going to be much.

why? it's easy to tell someone else to do something, but much harder to do it yourself.

i wonder how many pro lifers here have the option for having sex. i'm not saying that you've though about it.

i mean, you have a boyfriend/girlfriend, and you two have discussed it, and have decided to practice abstinance. and i want to know how long you two have been practicing it.

anybody?

abstinence is like smokey the bear. sounds good. stops the bad stuff (sex, forest fires). but when it finally happens, which it does in both cases, it's much worse.

Hey, kiddo, AHEM I won't mention any names, listen carefully before I start using offensive names. You're really starting to piss me off.

Get the f**k over the fact that you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. You won't change mine easily. I doubt I'll change yours. All we can do is debate and show our points. Okay? So take a chill pill, sweet pea.

And how many times do I have to tell you that condoms and birth control don't always work? Get it through your thick head.

I respect your opinion, so f**king respect mine.

""I would love to see how you would deal with being raped. And I'd love to see how you'd handle being a dad at 15. Or however old you are."

Im not even going to answer that.and im the smart ass?yeah ok w/e...and the point is not a woman having to carry the baby its the matter of the fact is killing the baby.But what ever,i said what i had to say in my defense. "

You won't answer it why? Because it will disprove you.

"Is abortion murder? Murder is defined as "illegal killing with malice aforethought." Abortion fails this definition for two reasons. First, abortion is not illegal, and second, there is no evidence to suggest that expecting mothers feel malice towards their own flesh and blood."

http://www.123helpme.com/preview.asp?id=9909

Taylor``

Ok,you ARE THE ONE WHO NEEDS TO CHILL.OK,i wasnt reffering to you when i said wouldnt mention other names.

-"You won't answer it why? Because it will disprove you."No actually i wont answer because i dont give a damn.

-And if you think you can like back me off with offensive words,then your highly mistaking me.I could care less about it and I dont even have the strength right now to argue with you so ima let it go.AND yes i do f**king respect your damn opinion so dont come at me as if i dont.So yeah your entitled to your damn opinion as i am to mine.SO ill just leave it at that.

Hmm. Funny, by reading your posts I actually thought you cared.

Taylor``

See no,you misunderstood me.When i said i didnt give a damn,i didnt mean about abortion and the stupidity of it,i meant the question you asked me.Thats what i could care less about.

There is a very big difference between your sister and an unborn fetus.A fetus is not a baby. A fetus has no perspective, feelings, or thoughts at all. It can't be killed, because it isn't yet alive.

"There is a very big difference between your sister and an unborn fetus.A fetus is not a baby. A fetus has no perspective, feelings, or thoughts at all. It can't be killed, because it isn't yet alive."

Yeah see i was using it as an example.Though when my sister wasnt even born yet my mom looked sick throughout the whole pregnancy and my sisters heart stoped 3 times,(again im using it as example)But no she wasnt gonna be a dumb a$$ and decide to have an abortion.BUT now its w/e to me,i left what i felt about the stupidity about abortion,and taylor left her respected opinion of abortion too.SO ill just leave it at that.

^ I'm sorry, but until you become a woman, get pregnat and have an abortion, I don't think you have any f**king right to call women who have abortions "dumb asses". That's incredibly ignorant. Again, you're not a woman, so you wouldn't understand what the hell it means.

Taylor``

Ok like i said what f-king ever ok.And i do have the right to call them dumb a$$es because its freedom of speech and also because i can say what i want to say.Not all women who have abortions are dumb a$$es its just the ones i know who are dumb a$$es.And i know that when:

1)They cry and say "I had sex omg and now im pregnant"
or
2)A baby will ruin my life,blah blah blah e.t.c

I'm just giving you advice, kiddo. You look stupid, that's all. But oh well, you're too young to understand, I guess.

Taylor``

Ok and i take your advice but that doesnt change how i feel about abortion.And feel free to call me what you want,it doesnt bother me.

I'm glad.

Taylor``

I'm totally against abortion no matter what the situation is. However, if the baby poses a threat to the mother's own life then and only then, does an abortion seem right. The new life is human from the exact picosecond of conception.

Its just my opinion. I'm not condemning or condoning anyone. Depends how you take it.

right on the baby shouldn't suffer for the mothers mistake and if it is rape, as i said before, your parents will understand and i am sure they would rather you let the baby live then heartlessly kill it

Angelina Taylor and what ever the other person screen name was don't call them names. There are better ways to go about speaking your opinion then calling people names.

People are entitled to their opinions
and they can be open to change them and then some aren't
you live with it and move on.

yes i do agree with you though taylor hes a guy and guys do look at things differently then girls and also you shouldn't have sex in the first place if your nto ready for the consuquences [sp? its early, haven't slept -__-]

why am i not suprised to see no one stepping up?

i mean, if the baby is so precious, and you could save it, why wouldn't you?

cus it seems to matter a lot.

If you had read my posts, you wouldn't post this.

Taylor``

Quite frankly, reading 45 pages is a task I am not willing to undertake so I will just put my beliefs forward without quoting anyone just yet.

My opposition to abortion has its basis in my religious beliefs: I believe that every human being has a soul, which is created at the time of conception, and that this belief is firmly grounded in the Bible. The absurd question of "when is a human a human?" can be answered simply by those of us who believe in the existence of souls: at conception. Say you believe in souls but not the teachings of the Bible. What do you say about the matter of when a soul enters the "human tissue"? Well you can't really say exactly when. This question is now moot, because you know cannot answer when a human is a human, shouldn't you ride on the wings of caution and opt against abortion?

Cold science does not recognize such things as souls, so I cannot judge atheists and agnostics within the same context as religious folk in this debate. But I say to you that any Christian who does not oppose abortion completely is incredibly misguided. Abortions are carried out for convenience, whatever severity the consequences of carrying a child to term bring. It is not excusable for a rape victim to say that her emotional stability is more important than the life of another human being. Financial status, relationship status, and career status are all matters of convenience. No matter the issue, it comes down to saying, "It is not convenient for me to carry this child to term. Its chances of life should be thwarted for the sake of my own."

According to Judaism, the soul enters the body at 3 months of age (in the womb).

quite frankly, it just comes down to one line:

christian values should not govern our country.

I don't see what relevance that has to anything I said. I spoke not of laws or government but to Christians from a Christian context.

I don't necessarily have the will,or energy to read 46 pages.so I'm just gonna write what I think.

I've never really felt that strongly about abortion.But then again,I've never been in that kind of position,whether to chose it or not.I figure it's wrong,killing a person and all.Even though the person is young.I guess you could say I'm more neutral than anything.Sometimes kids aren't meant to be born.

i was trying to summarize the last 45 pages.

Seems like a poor summary.

I did not have enough time to scroll and read through all 47 pages.
I am a devout Muslim and my opinion on abortion is based on my religious beliefs.
According to Islam, life is the most blessed endowment by the almighty God. No one person or group is allowed to take life without just cause or without Islamic law. According to the Holy Quran: "Say: Come, I will rehearse what God has really prohibited you from: Join nothing as equal with Him; be good to your parents, kill not your children on a plea of poverty; We provide sustenance for you and for them; approach not shameful deeds, whether open or secret; take not life, which God has made sacred, except by a way of justice and law (Chapter 6, Verse 151). Also, another verse in the Quran states: "Kill not your children for fear of want; it is We who provide sustenance for them as well as for you; for verily killing them is a great sin.
(Chapter 17, Verse 31)

What these two verses are saying is, it is great sin to take the life of a child due to poverty or any fear of fruitless want. Nor is it permissible to do so for any other reasons, unless there is a great danger to the mother’s life is caused by the presence of the fetus.

There are four major points in Islam on abortion.

1) Abortion could be allowed for heath reasons. If the woman’s life is in danger due to the presence of the fetus, the woman is allowed an abortion.
2) Under normal health conditions, and particularly when the fetus is developed enough (usually 6 – 8 weeks into a pregnancy), abortion amounts to deliberate killing and therefore, not allowed.
3) Abortion or even prevention of conception for fear of economic hardships is the negation of the basic article of Islamic faith that God is sole Provider and Sustainer of every living soul. That being the reason, the act will be against Islamic law.
4) Seeking abortion for no "good" reason at all, and saying that the "mother" or "father" just does not want that baby - is inhuman and cruel thinking.
5) In case of pregnancy due to unconcented sex, as in the case of a rape, an abortion is not allowed because the baby, an innocent life in any case, has a right to life that cannot be denied.

Authentic specialist opinion can be obtained during cases where it is believed that the fetus is a danger to the woman’s heath. If the specialist agrees that there is no other way to save the woman’s life but to go through with the abortion then the abortion is Islamicly legally. That seems to be the only condition under which abortion is allowed.

I am, myself personally, very afraid about this issue of “abortion at demand”. So terrified infact that I generally flatly refuse to subscribe to the idea. The reason for my fears is that women (and at times their husbands) demand an abortion for trivial insignificant reasons; reasons that only reflect heartless anti-naturist views. I am positive that in most cases the want for an abortion stems from social taboos, the base-less economic fears, and for unwant of a female baby, and by way of fasion that has come along with the western concept of individuals’ rights and worldviews.





I strongly agree. Christian values or those of any other religion should not be used to govern a country of numerous beliefs. But even if everything is viewed strictly on ethical practices, without any religion involved, abortion is still wrong. Its true sometimes we go through troubled times and the news of a baby becomes news of hardship rather then joy but its still a baby. You are taking the right of life away from something that could potentially be a great human being.

1) Abortion could be allowed for heath reasons. If the woman’s life is in danger due to the presence of the fetus, the woman is allowed an abortion.
2) Under normal health conditions, and particularly when the fetus is developed enough (usually 6 – 8 weeks into a pregnancy), abortion amounts to deliberate killing and therefore, not allowed.
3) Abortion or even prevention of conception for fear of economic hardships is the negation of the basic article of Islamic faith that God is sole Provider and Sustainer of every living soul. That being the reason, the act will be against Islamic law.
4) Seeking abortion for no "good" reason at all, and saying that the "mother" or "father" just does not want that baby - is inhuman and cruel thinking.
5) In case of pregnancy due to unconcented sex, as in the case of a rape, an abortion is not allowed because the baby, an innocent life in any case, has a right to life that cannot be denied.

Authentic specialist opinion can be obtained during cases where it is believed that the fetus is a danger to the woman’s heath. If the specialist agrees that there is no other way to save the woman’s life but to go through with the abortion then the abortion is Islamicly legally. That seems to be the only condition under which abortion is allowed.

I am, myself personally, very afraid about this issue of “abortion at demand”. So terrified infact that I generally flatly refuse to subscribe to the idea. The reason for my fears is that women (and at times their husbands) demand an abortion for trivial insignificant reasons; reasons that only reflect heartless anti-naturist views. I am positive that in most cases the want for an abortion stems from social taboos, the base-less economic fears, and for unwant of a female baby, and by way of fasion that has come along with the western concept of individuals’ rights and worldviews.
I strongly agree. Christian values or those of any other religion should not be used to govern a country of numerous beliefs. But even if everything is viewed strictly on ethical practices, without any religion involved, abortion is still wrong. Its true sometimes we go through troubled times and the news of a baby becomes news of hardship rather then joy but its still a baby. You are taking the right of life away from something that could potentially be a great human being.
[/quote]


I agree to this also. I do not have the time to read all 46 pages of posts, so here is my opinion. Although I believe in separtation of church and state, still, if it was based on eithical proportions it would be wrong.(restating what was already said) In certain circumstances(1 is listed in quote), abortion should be optional if it is a danger to the mother....but other than that it is completley unethical. To have an abortion for NO reason at all, I consider a type or murder. but then again, that is my opinion. I believe that abortion should only be optional in certain circumstances...and under those circustances only. To have an abortion and take away the life of a human being merely for "conveniance" is wrong[color=#9999FF]