Wow that's wonderful you must be a great person for that wow ok

Good for you... now tell us why.

Yeah. Which is why I'm not participating in this. I was just reading over the arguments on this page, and a lot of things are repeated. And .. it's getting pretty old and not to mention pointless. Well, that's all I wanted to say is I second that. Bye now!

IM MOST DEF. AGAINST ABORTIONS...

Unless you have been involved in a horrible rape there is no reason fo abortion.
I belive abortion should be considerd murder, after all thats wat it is MURDER!

A fetus starts to develop at 4 weeks 4WEEKs@!@@!!!! Imagine how beautiful when its 36-37?

Why? And you do realize it's always developing, right?

Yea people do have choices but there are good and bad ones.Abortion is a bad choice but i think the only way it may be alrite is in the case of rape but i saw the percentages and rape was like only a few percentage fo why.Abortion is wrong and well your mother chose for u to live to you should follow what ur mother did.If you dont want a baby then just dont have sex or be safe.How hard is it to do that?People should think before they act and then maybe they wont have to get an abortion(but i understand ONLY in the case of rape)

Is it wrong to abort the baby to save the life of the mother?

Name a situation where an abortion would be necessary because the mother's life is in danger, but a C-section couldn't be used.

Would it be wrong for a mother to use a baby as a shield if someone is shooting bullets at her?

certainly a C section could be used,but the baby would die anyways, seeing as abortions are illegal when a feotus can survive outside its mother.

I know that in my own heart, I could never have an abortion, even if I was raped. It would be hard for me, but I would have to give it up for adoption.

But I do believe that women have the right to choose to have an abortion.

I think it's funny how men have an opinion on this subject at all.

And what's really confusing is how capital punishment is fine in this country, but a mother choosing to end a life that SHE HERSELF created is wrong.

It's extremely hypocritical.

So, is a miscarriage involuntary manslaughter?

^ A very good point.

I think that abortion is okay at a certain stage, and it should only be used as a last resort, if the mother's life is on the line.



Are you saying that people aren't allowed to make mistakes? If you in that woman's shoes, would you honestly just be able to live with it?

Are you saying that if a girl went to a party, got a little tipsy, and ended up getting raped that she has to live with a constant reminder of that?

I don't hold much value to a fetus. I think it's fine to abort it because it doesn't know that it's going to die.

agreed. I am sure there are many CBers whose mothers wanted to abort them, but instead kept the baby. Abortion had nothing to do with their mother's choice. It was the mother who decided the fate for the baby. It really depends on the woman if she thinks she's capable of being a mother.

Personally, I don't want a woman who gets knocked up have a child that she cannot raise just because abortion is illegal.

Giving up a baby for adoption is like placing your own problems for someone else to solve. And adds (as many people mentioned) to overpopulation.

I believe in abortion.
for the pure fact that some women would not be able to handle a child, what about those women/girls who get raped.
i know that if i got raped and was pregnant i would have an abortion
It does matter on the circumstances, more care should be taken if you dont want a baby anyway. go on the pill, have an injection thingy and use a condom.
yeah i know still that 0.5% chance
Then there is the morning after pill
is that abortion?


The levels of abortion are complex.


Also..I believe in adoption. What about people ho cannot care for their children, who are terribly poor and do not believe or afford abortion. Also what about those women who cannot have children themselves but desperatly want one, abortion allows them to fulfill they're most wanted dream in a sense.
And overpopulation!! seriously if you are going to use that then there is always the case that diseases like malaria and AIDS and birdflu will lower the level. Also war lowers the level of population, such an inhumane thought but then again so is the thought of overpopulation being a reason for abortion. ( unless in china which is next point.) Also i am sure such countries as russia, america and england could kill off a few million people with they're nuclear warheads. Sickening!! This is too deep to be honest but hey!
I do not think that population level should be a worry anyway, if it is such a problem then countries such as china develop ways around it by allowing only one child per woman.
And that brings us neatly back to abortion as many people in china wish for a boy and if it is a girl they have an abortion.
it is a personal choice of the woman who is carrying the baby to be allowed to make the decision as it is she alone who will raise it and be attached to it more than anyone else.
Therefore adoption and abortion are a good thing in my mind

Seeing as this debate has 43 pages my opinion and reasons have probably been repeated hundreds of times but I'll say it anyway.

I believe it is a women's choice. It is her body and the government should not be allowed to tell a woman that what she is choosing to do is wrong nor should any one else. Condoms arent 100 percent affective. Does that mean if a girl doesnt want to risk getting pregneant than she just shouldnt have sex at all? No. The option should be open especially for rape victimes. Though I think alot of abortions could be prevented if there were easier ways to get the morning after pill

Yeah. Like I said, it's not like people want to use abortion like it's some kind of toy. It's just a last resort.

And like Nate said, nobody should have the right to force a woman to act as a host for another life.

Ive skimming through many of these pages... 43 pages is a lot to read so sorry if someone mentioned something similar to what I'm going to say.

From what I'm hearing, everyone says that it isnt fair to the baby. the baby this, the baby that. Well if you think about it, it really comes down to the woman. The woman's life should be more concerning since she is already an intellectual human being with a life led already with dreams and goals. You can't compare a full grown human to a fetus/zygote because they are not human yet, they have the POSSIBILITY OF BECOMING A HUMAN. If the pregnancy was an accident, a child would be a walking, talking, personification of that mistake. Yes, its true the fetus is growing inside of her, the woman has been taking care of it. It is in her body. She could feel it growing. shouldnt she have the final say? Forcing a woman to continue on a pregnancy just because it is illegal to do otherwise is extremely cruel and sadistic, dont you think? A woman has every right to do what she wants to her body. If she wants to cut off her finger, have her uterus removed, have an abortion since none of these consciousness and intellect. Furthermore, is it okay to say to a woman who is considering abortion, "oh, well, better luck next time. just a condom!" or "jeeez close your legs and open a book you slut."? Does that help anything? No. No one comes out of a abortion clinic skipping and smiling. No one goes "oh, i'm pregnant. darn it. eh i'll just get an abortion". Its an extremely important decision where the government shouldn't be involved in. And we don't need anyone added to that fire saying that its murder. Its not murder until the fetus is its own entity and can survive outside of the womb. Otherwise, its sort of like a half suicide or however you want to call it. Although I strongly believe abortion shouldnt be a form of birth-control, it should be there incase women need it. Accidents do happen. It is in the human nature to make mistakes and feed their sexual desires. Just because a fetus is aborted doesn't mean that another one can't be made. Its really no loss to society unlike adoption, which takes our tax dollars. Bottomline, no child should be born unwanted.

yea if u dont want a child you shouldnt get pregnant in the first place.So either you dont have sex or you use birth control or a condom and be safe.Dont wait until its too late.I think if u choose to not be safe and you get pregnant then you should live with the consequences.Because when you make any other mistakes or whatever you have to live with the results.people should just think before they just go off and do whatever.If you dont want a baby then well why did u even have sex and not be safe.I mean come on people is it that hard?There shouldnt be no need for abortion unless its in the case of rape because well that is the only reason but then look at the percentages of why people get abortion.Rape is only like 2%.If u dont have money then dont have a baby or sex.It's not that hard.Use birth control or something.

And well just think your mom had u and didnt get an abortion.Also the way they do abortions is not right.Not even people in prison die that way.Also i read and not all the time do they die.Sometimes the so call fetus does live.So what do they do?They put it aside to die.This is the truth because i read and looked it up and saw pictures of aborted "fetuses"

Condoms and birth control are not infallible tools of contraception. They do not always work. Even if your tubes have been tied, it is not impossible to get pregnant. So, even if all percuations have been taken, you can still become pregnant. So, it is not always the fault of the mother that she became pregnant. Also, you said that the mother should live with the consequences? She is, she is getting an abortion.

What you don't seem to understand is that once that baby is born it isn't just the mother's life that may be "ruined." It's the babies as well. Why should the mother be forced to have an unwanted baby because she had unprotected sex, or got drunk, or a condom broke? Don't you realize that that unwanted baby may very well be headed into a world that never wanted him or her. This child life is bound to be shadowed by the fact that he or she was born unwanted and into despair from the get go. Once that child is born, the consequences are realized not by just the mother, but the child must bare this burden as well. Not to mention the countless other people who may be or become involved.

To play pregnancy and the abortion issue on a pro-life slant as if it is to pay justice for the irresponsible acts of the mother is sick, demented, and shortsighted.

I like how a lot of people who are prolife are so supportive and protective of fetuses. They are wonderful and kind people. "Think of the babies!" and "It's unfair and cruel!"

I appreciate their efforts. I love children and no one should have the power to carelessly decided the fate of other beings. However:

Do you not understand that all around the world we have millions of children suffering? And we neglect them for children that aren't even fully developed yet? Fetuses (ones that are within the legal period for abortions) do not have all the organs or functions to survive by themselves. Children in Africa are ophans and/or incredibly ill because of the HIV/AIDS epidemic. Thousands of girls in strong conservative countries are given up so the families aren't "shamed". In America, many kids are put into our already overburdened adoption services. Many who aren't "picked up" as infants or toddlers, have decreased chances of finding a home.

Take care of the needy of the present before worrying about future children.

For me, it actually depends. I am usually agaisnt abortion. But as the times went on, I found that more girls (younger and younger) began to have sex and get pregnant. Although I want the unborn child to be born, the holder of the baby is a child themself.

Everyone should change their perspective on the woman for a moment. Suppose a woman had sex and just found out that she's pregnant and is contemplating on aborting it since she has her whole life ahead of her. You cant just say "oh you shouldnt be having sex in the first place if you had so many dreams" or "use a condom next time you slut" or any harsh criticisim! It's just pointing a blame finger and doesnt change the fact that she is bearing an unwanted fetus! (And weren't you ever taught that pointing is extremely rude?) Mistakes do happen. Condoms break. Women get drunk. Women get raped. Women are not perfect. WOMEN WANT TO HAVE SEX. And saying "you shouldnt be having sex in the first place if you dont want a child"... well, honey, youre in the wrong debate. Take it over to contraception. You cant change the sexually active society single-handedly, so you might as well work around it. And you gotta face it. Making abortions illegal won't banish it forever! There are still back-alley, illegal, and self abortions which thosands of women die from every year. "well it might be the next martin Luther King or Einstein". Well duh, every single child that is born has that possibility, not just an aborted fetus'! Having more than you need (ie. keeping abortion legal) is better than having not enough (ie. making abortion illegal which cuts off much of our freedom, liberty, and pursuit of happiness). If you're against abortion, then dont get one. It's simple as that. Women who actually need it shouldn't suffer from pro-life views.

i believe that every woman should have control over her body, and i include an unborn child as a part of her until its born.

by being pro-choice i belive that every woman should enact her own beliefs on her own body. if you are against abortions, then obviously you would not have one. but that doesnt mean that you have the right to impose your personal beliefs on the rest of the country. it would be like saying, "im christian, and i want everyone to be christian, so im going to make a law that enforces that", which is sort of whats happening. : / america is known for its idealogy that people can have and express their own beliefs, and this is no different

exactly.

Abortion isnt really a technical/factual issue, like finding out who murdered someone or if when the fetus inside can feel pain etc. etc. Its a moral issue. Is it alive? Does it deserve human rights? Is it conscious? Is it murder if i abort it? etc. and obviously everyone has different morals. You can't really force women to continue on a pregnancy if abortion was made illegal because you have different morals then the woman. Its pretty much pressing your beliefs and morals on others that have different morals than you.

it is not just a "lump" of cells. abortions are usually done weeks after the child has developed more into just a "lump" of cells. infact, im most abortions, you are able to discern the child clearly as a human being with a head and a body and everything. and not only that, the child can feel pain after only a few weeks. so when most aboritons are done, the child is fully capable of feeling pain. then theres the actualy abortion procedure itself, where the child basically gets its brains sucked out, its head collapsed, and its body ripped apart. a fetus is not just a "lump" of cells.

You're thinking of partial-birth abortions. Not all abortions are partial-birth abortions.

i dont think there is anyway you can abort the fetus without it feeling pain. But what sets it apart from a baby is that it depends on the mother to live, and it isnt concious. It doesn't know its there. Its not intellectual.

^ some of the fetus' have developed enough that they do "think". theres a video about abortions called "the silent scream", which is an ultrasound video of a fetus being aborted. you can see in the video that the fetus is obviously trying to escape the metal pipe that is trying to kil it and its heart rate increases up to twice its normal speed.
and even if they dont "think", does it make any diffrence? its still getting ripped to pieces.

hey, you know there's this video call the begging death? there's a feotus, and it grabs the metal pipe and impales itself.

there's also this video where the feotus starts mouthing the words to "another brick in the wall.

obviously?

my grandfather died of oral cancer after they removed the tumor. his health declined after the operation.

obviously tumor removals are lethal and should be made illegal.

assumptions are the genesis of all screw-ups.

well either way,c riminalizng abortion doesnt solve anything. Women will just do it some other way like back alley or themselves. These illegal abortions more likely to KILL women, and then, in a pro-lifer's logic, twice as many people die. And making it illegal will be imposing pro-life beliefs on a society that doesnt entierly agree. Not everyone thinks its murder, you may think so but billions others dont. Keeping it legal makes everyone happy.

Many pro-lifers believe that even if the mother would die from the birth, she should have the baby anyway, so that probably wouldn't have any effect on their thinking...

It's the not-living thing that has life-value, not the thing that's been living for so long.

Offer me one good example of that.

Well..people are CONSTANTLY saying that the fetus is a life and respect should be given to it, enough respect to not kill it..it just sounds like they care SO much about this fetus that it has more importance than the mother, whose life might be in danger.

Uhh.
Look throughout this entire thread. Many people have replied to me saying that, "It's not fair for the baby to die; the mom already has lived her life, she should give the kid a chance" or something to that effect.

I'll offer an arguement.

If a mother was being shot at, and she used her baby as a shield to save her life, would she be justified in doing so?

In both cases, the mother is sacraficing the baby to save her life. Neither are justified.

^^^^^^ Seeeeeee Justin?

It's not like she can sacrifice herself for the baby in that case. Either the baby would die alone, or they'd die together. If the mom dies, there's nothing to feed the baby, and if the mom's being shot at, the baby's likely to get hit anyway when it's inside her.

If you mean when the baby's already born, really, I wouldn't be so against the mother if that happened...she dies or the baby dies. I would probably save my own kid, but if someone didn't, I wouldn't hold that against them. It's human nature to try to live.

My arguement is a little stronger than "the baby hasn't had a chance to live yet."

I would not sacrifice the life of friend in order to save my own life. I think it's pretty cowardly to knowingly let someone else die in your place. How much more for my own child?

Also, wouldn't it be more sensible to make it so both live? I don't know of a case that delivering a baby could kill the mother while having a c-section is not an option.

abortion is so wrong its your stupif mistake for going out and having sex in the first place and getting pregnant don't make the baby suffer, and yes they are alive i read an article when they did a sugery on a fetus and it reached out and touched the doctor:ohmy:

if its thru rape explain it to your parents/guardians and its not your fault have it and put it up for adoption it is still your child

mother is dying of a disease. the cure will kill the baby.

she can either carry the baby to term, in which case she will die, or she can take the cure, and the baby will die.

That's not fair, Mr. Acid, Justin isn't here to argue with you...


But good example anyway.


You know, while I agree that abortion is just... wrong when a chick to get knocked up because she sluts around, but not all cases of abortions are like that.

You say that a girl can go to her parents and explain the rape and so everything will be okay? No, it won't be. Being raped is one of the most, if not the most, traumatic experience a person can suffer. Do you know that some girls just want to die after a rape? A woman experience the physical rape and then the mental rape after. How do you compensate for all that pain, anger, and loss of self? Some people have the mental strength to go through with the pregnancy, some people do not. I can't believe anyone would fault them if they do not have this strength.

Whether it's cowardly or not isn't relevant at all...

And there's plenty of cases in which a C-section is not an option. My aunt had to kill her baby during labor so she wouldn't die. I'm not exactly sure why, but I know that's what happened. It was a big family issue. She couldn't have any more kids afterwards ever.

My mother had me at age 17, pregnant at 16. Abortion was most definitely an option, and one which she was encouraged to take at that time. She did not. Personally, as one voice for the billions upon billions of unborn fetuses created in cases where abortion has been considered, practiced, or ruled out since abortion first became legal, I have to say I am thankful that my mother did not discredit, or dismiss the value of my life when I was nothing more than a brand new fetus, but chose, instead, to allowed me life. We all started out that very same way. Even the earliest phase of human development is no less significant than any other in order for a life to be brought into this world. No matter if you view it as taking a human life or not, a human's life is prevented when aborted.

Nonetheless, it is legal, and countless abortions happen everyday. A couple of my own dearest friends have chosen that option. While I've no doubt in where I stand on this issue, nor did they- judging others, especially my closest friends, is never my right nor my place. So, when one of my friends has made the choice to have an abortion, I felt it my duty to be nothing less or more to them than the friend they'd known me to be up to that point. A woman has to live with her own choice. A real friend can and will always be a friend. So long as the law supports abortion, abortion is going to be an option, even for those whom we know and love, whether we like it or not.

^ your mother made the choice. she decided your life was worth it, right?

what's wrong with letting the mother decide?
i don't see christian conservatives stopping the violence in darfur. i mean, come on. women and children raped by soldiers and rebels alike...

more people die from wars, AIDs, etc. than from abortion. yet they do nothing.

Oh, so you think that an 18-year-old mother (for instance) has lived her life already? Or worse, that a 14-year-old, raped girl has lived her life and she should give the kid a chance?

I don't think so.

Taylor``

Whaaat?

Are you capable of reading?

Taylor``

Well, I'm opposed to abortion. Cause, what did that living thing done to you so you can it's life? Anyways if you dont want, there's always adoption. Somebody's bound to want it. It's not like it's never going to be loved. And who knows, she could probably be the next mother Teresa or he could probably be the next Pope.

@ Taylor, i dont think you should be that mean

hm....i'm not sure but i think maybe abortion should be allowed...i mean it really is up to the mom to decided, right??...and others shouldn't interfere because they have their own reasons for the abortion...so it really is up to the mom to decide...

how about this?

in cases of rape ,incest, or danger to the mother's health, abortions are required.

in all other cases, abortions are illegal.

No, I don't think that at all...the exact opposite, actually. People have said that to me...

I'm for keeping abortion legal...

What are you talking about? I think you read me wrong.



Justin, anyone can go to an abortion clinic and say they were raped.
Also, contraception isn't infallible.
I agree that people shouldn't really get abortions unless they actually need to, but it's a matter of choice. Anyone and everyone should be given the choice...

Like I've said three zillion times, a case-by-case law is not going to work.

Aaaaah, no, I didn't know who you quoted.. so I quoted that.. Hahahah.. who did you quote? (I hate repetition)

Taylor``



Sorry, not good enough. I don't like the thought that the government can tell me when I must have a child and when not. It's a choice I can make. It's freedom. That's why I came to f**king North America, damn it.

Taylor``