lmao ehm.... yeah

I really don't see such a big deal with aborting... some women abort naturally--miscarriage-- while others seek the abortion. I'm still for it

I hope everyone agrees that partial birth abortion is wrong completely

oh, of course THAT type of abortion is wrong! I mean, that's the one where the doctor delivers the kid legs first, and with the head still in there stabs something to the back of the baby's head and suctions it's brains out right?? I completely am against that one... the type i'm not against is the one where they give you a pill to miscarriage

yeah that is the partial brith one. It is just immorally wrong and heartless. Abortion is a difficult issue because people believe in the freedom to chose, but who is to say what we can say is our choice and not someone elses. Like i believe that they should make it a law that you have to inform the father, because what if he wants a child

Ack I meant to say "abortions" instead of "adoptions," besides, you should've seen my point.

Furthermore when the sperm fertilizes the egg, then, yes, it is still life...ack! This is potential for human life...why kill it?!

Also, machinoman, you didn't look at the big picture at the point I was trying to make. I was saying that far more people die from abortions because 99% of them are not rape-related cases. If you're going to reply to something, read it first.

all im saying is life starts before sex even occurs so its ridiculous to say abortion is wrong but not having sex is holy. they are the same thing; you kill lives either way.

What? How does life start before sex? You can't get pregnant everytime, but there's a high risk.

whoa you lost me there. You kill lives by having sex?? Not having sex before marriage is holy.

I wouldnever do abortion, even if I got pregnant right now.
I would have the baby, and think about adoption, but abortion just seems kind of harsh for me.

But it does depend on the circumstances.

the problem is that you say life starts when the sperm enters the egg, but the sperm was already moving before that, you cant just draw a line at some random point and claim that is where life starts. life isnt black and white like that, it isnt that simple.

Well yeah the sperm is moving before that; doesn't mean that it has fertilized an egg already...ever have a health class lately, buddy?

youre saying fertilization of the egg constitues life. im saying you cant just draw a line at some point in the process of birth and say "after this is life, before this there is no life" especially when the sperm was alive before the fertilization as it was smart enough to travel to the egg. and i never said the sperm had fertilized an egg before it got to the egg. it blows my mind that you think i said that. no really, it blows my mind.

Um...yeah the sperm is alive, but what I'm saying is this: There is human life when the sperm fertilizes the egg.

all im saying is the death of an egg with a sperm is no more significant than the death of a lone sperm or egg and that is where we agree to disagree.

lol... yeah... well for me, I just Think that a new born baby has more significance than a fertilized egg... So I would have to say that the farther along the pregnancy is, the more significant the fetus is... Also, the fertilized egg isn't even considered to be a fetus, and I still find it equivalent to a lone sperm and egg

Yeah, but sperm and eggs alone don't create life...AHH! Wow. I think I should seriously stop posting in here.

It doesn't matter if it's considered a fetus or not, though - it's going to be in a matter of time; therefore, it's still human life.

Welllll see, this is an impossible thing to debate on, because there is no way to tell when the actual "life" begins. All of us agree that it's wrong to end the life when it begins, but when the life begins is the question. Personally, i think the mind develops as the baby does.



I totally agree with you.

Also, I am totally against people who burn down abortion clinics, and picket against it, because i believe that abortion is a really personal decision. it's fine it you don't agree with it, but let it be people's business whether or not they do it themselves.

I know people struggle with this decision, so i think those who are opposed shouldn't make it any harder on them. like i said... it's a personal decision.

Eh...that happens with any major issue in this country. Still, they're not the decisionmakers...they shouldn't be doing that.

Still...only in a matter of days will the fertilized egg have a mind or whatnot. That's kind of like saying, "Well, I'm going to decide to kill you before you're allowed to drink," or something.

Life's life. Exactly.

www.abortionisprolife.com

A person's life is his (or hers) and his alone. At no point in my life do I have an obligation to give up my life (or my body, the means of sustaining life) for another human being.

A fetus is only in a woman's body by her permission. It does not have an inalienable right to be in there.

Being "pro-life" is claiming that women (and in this age of gender equaolity, this slippery slope quickly applies to ALL people) do not own their bodies--that they are in fact breeding pigs of the State. Explain how this is pro-life again?

In a miscarriage the baby dies, in abortion you kill the baby. Everyone dies eventually right...so thats like the miscarriage..so if its ok for the baby to die by abortion is it ok for the rest of the world to die by us killing them? i think NO....the baby didnt do nething wrong..n God has a plan for that child...if u dunt let it live...u never know what they baby may have become....

the second the egg is fertalized...that is a living child!

Hmm, well I guess I believe abortion is right- because I think that it's really up to the "mother" to decide whether or not she wants to keep the baby. I mean, if she was raped and got pregnant, she may not want the baby. But I don't think abortion should be an excuse for couples to have unprotected sex so that whenever the female gets pregnant, she could just have an abortion and continue having sex.

No there's not actually.

The mother's immune system usually recognizes (or fails to) the father's DNA as invader DNA (virus if you will) and will attack the placenta/embryo. The vast majority (90+%) of fetuses (feti??) are naturally miscarried within the first week or two of pregnancy in this way.

Exactly. haha that's so true



Oh and princess, please don't double post.



There is no way you can know for sure if it's "living." Everyone's opinion on what's living is different.

Actually, plants and primitive animals demonstrate the alternation of generations (sporophyte and gametophyte stages). Both are considered alive. In more advanced species, the sporophyte stage is dominant, while the gametophyte stage is usually transient and dependent on the sporophyte (like the cone of a pine).

In humans, sex cells like sperm or eggs can actually be thought of as the gametophyte stage, so in a way, they are alive.

i think if sume1 gets raped...they wuld have to be "cleaned" by the doctors...n yes if this is like a 13 yr old gurl or sumething then i think i mite agree with it..or also if the birth of the baby is GOING to or has a HIGH risk or killing the mother..i think that is up to each individual mother..its between her n God...but i think its wrong just to abort b/c u have sex as a teenager...or b/c u have unprotected sex..n i think its HORRIBLE to kill a child b/c the doctors say they r gonna b handicapped..u never know for sure...n even if u did...u have no clue what that child will be like...even if the doctors said the baby wuld die..id have the baby..i mean the doctors r not God...they dunno everything

Once again, we're missing the point:


- Sex is between its consenting parties (typically two people of the opposite gender). Not the government's business.
- When a man and a woman have sex, there is NO FETUS yet. Something that doesn't exist CANNOT have legal rights at the time of intercourse.
- Therefore, arguments that the woman should have to take responsibility, or there is an implicit contract, are stupid.
- Thus, the fetus is only in the woamn's body by permission, not right.
- Thus, the woman can revoke the persmision when she chosses.
- Thus, abortion should be legal.
- And I will rule the world or see it burnt to ashes around me.

ok...so your rights can be taken away whenever a woman feels like it..well since u feel stronly abt it..im a woman..i say u dunt have the right to take away an innocent child's life...o n it might not b a fetus immediatly..but by the time she gets to the doctor it will be

Okay, I'm correcting myself, Minda - I meant human life.

No. No one should be able to take away my rights. You're missing my point:

THE BABY DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE MOTHER'S BODY. She isn't taking away tyhe baby's RIGHTS, she's taking away a privilege. That the baby dies is merely a tragic consequence.

I do NOT have to give food to a starving person, even if said starving person dies as a result. However, that is NOT the same as saying I have the right to shoot that person. Same principle applies here.

And Kathleen, it's still human life. A pine cone is technically a pine life. In ferns and mosses, the sporophyte and gametopyhte generaitons are both viable members of the same species. Just beacuse the sperm and egg can't live on their own doesn't mean they aren't life. They're merely gametophyte humans.

The death rate from abortion right now is about 0.6 per 1000.

Before legalizing it, when we had backalley abortionists, it was 40 per 1000.

0.06% death, or 4% death... hmm...

no...when the mother had the sex she knew that she might be bringing a child into this world...she loses her right to her body..she belongs to a child now..if she doesnt want the baby..she can put the child up for adoption...TONS of ppl want babies n can't have them...

When a woman decides to engage in sex, it's between her and her partner.

The baby has not been concieved yet. Something that doesn't exist cannot have legal rights.

The woman never loses the right to her own body. You only lose that right if:
- You sign a contract waiving it
- You commit a real crime (i.e. violating someone else's rights)

Otherwise, it is the GOVERNMENT taking away your right without due process.

I don't know what our country has turned into, but in the old America, we used to call that TOTALITARIANISM.

when a woman engages in sex she knows what might happen...and the fact that a child COULD BECOME OF...means that it should be taken into consideration...and u know having sex is way bigger than signing a contract...she waives her body by having sex...is she isnt ready for the kid..she isnt ready for the sex...

So you are saying that something that COULD exist in the fututer HAS legal rights?

I'm curious. Do you support banning contraceptives? Because if the UNCONCIEVED have legal rights, then certainly it should be illegal to not let them be born?

In fact, we should mandate sex.

By typing on this forum, the radiation on your monitor COULD adversely affect your reproductive system. Since this could potentially cause undesirable mutations in your FUTURE baby that hasn't been conceived yet, it follows that it should be illgal for you to use a computer.

why would any person kill an innocent child? im just going to ignore all of ur sarcasim..but u know thats a kid...what if ur mom decided to abort u? think of sumething uve dune..that helped sume1 else...maybe that person wuld have killed themselves if u hadnt been here..or maybe uve never dune that..think about your kids..if u were not born u culdnt have kids..what will ur kids become? they might b sume1 who finds a cure for AIDS..or stops sume1 frum killing themselves....but it wuldnt have happened if ur mom had an abortion...so the same with every unborn child

by the way..i just looked at ur icon...r u german?????????? omgosh u give us a bad name

They're just withholding their own resources, the child's death is a tragic but secondary consequence.



They're called 'arguments'.



What if you used your computer to argue abortion online and the charged gamma particles mutated one of your germ cells which caused meiotic chromosome spliting, so that when you had a kid, he was born with Down's Syndrome? Huh? What did he ever do!?



It's none of my business if osmeone decides to kill himself.



How many times do I have to tell you... Things that don't exist don't have rights.



Or they might be the next Hitler. What's your point?

I value the rights of people who do exist over benefits that MAY or MAY NOT procure in the future.



and every... and every... and every...

You said that having abortions is a bad thing, you've never explained why it should be illegal, i.e. you've never told me WHY people ought to have legal rights BEFORE they are concieved (not born, concieved).

Yes, I'm German. I'm the secret son of Hitler and Eva Braun. I was adopted by Ukranian cossacks who defected from the Red Army in 1945 after the end of the war. But my foster parents were shot by NKVD when they tried to escape across the border to British-contorlled Austria in '46, but I was too little to remember it. I was put in a Soviet orphanage outside of Wallachia, when I grew up to a distinguished career in the Romanian Secret Police. After that, I became Chief of State Security under Brezhnev and I organized the bombing of a key NATO meeting and tried to assassinate Mao during his 1977 meeting with Nixon. In the 80s, I was wounded by a Mujhadeen during the Soviet-Afghan War. They took me to a camp in Herat, where a Saudi mercenary, Osama or what's-his-name, interrogated me for a few hours. Then I got shipped to Guantanamo Bay, but they traded me for an American spy captured in Moscow. After Brezhy died, I left Mother Russia for Berlin, where I got to sit on the Berlin Wall when it came down. I became a travelling salesman for Prada in Germany for a few years, before retiring to my native Stralsund, in Pomerania. There I live to this very day.

correction...i dunt think i said it shuld b illegal...i said its between the person n God..n i think most of the time God doesnt say go kill ur child

God hasn't talked to me recently.

Ach! wirklich? wie interessant. ..no...so ich errate macht, daß Sie Deutsch. ..what Art des Deutsch sprechen können, Sie sprechen?

Ich spreche einen Pomerania Dialekt des Deutsch. Hitler var mein Vater.

oh He talks! what u shuld say is..."i havnt listened latly"...he'll talk...believe me on this one...i talk to Him constenly..currently..abt u

hehe,that's good.

so princess, i guess you've never heard of having sex for pleasure, which we have the right to do.


also, if you're old enough, every month your egg drops into the toilet or in a trash can.

from what you're saying, maybe you should have sex all the time, and fertilize all your potential babies, because they might influence the world greatly....?

hum..no i dunt think i ever said that?

News flash: Every single murderer, rapist, and terrorist has been an unaborted fetus. Look in a history textbook, you will never find information about an abortion blowing something up, killing a jew, or flying an airplane into a building.

Instead of fighting the Middle East, we could have used all the funding on international pro-choice campaigns. Osama himself would probably have been aborted. If that were the case, September 11th would have never happened and 3000+ people would still be alive, no thanks to you stubborn anti-everything renegades.

More examples of unaborted babies:

1. The Columbine Crew
2. Michael Jackson
3. Beyonce Knowles

Unaborted babies shoot up their school, molest children, and make shitty music. I don't even see why people want to have babies, it's insane. You could A) party all the time and not give a shit, or B) work two full-time jobs, get three hours of sleep each night, wipe a little maggot's ass EVERY DAY for four years, the list goes on. That's right, massage something's colon for four whole entire years. I don't think I've done anything for four years, maybe attended school, but there I don't have to clean up shit, only listen to it.

I don't understand why moms don't keep their aborted babies. It makes sense to me. An aborted kid is quiet, not as smelly, and doesn't require near as much oxygen as a living child. If I ever decide to have kids, I'm going to abort them and ask the doctor for a doggy bag. That's the way to go. Adults are so dumb.


from http://www.ninjapirate.com/abortion.html

the funniest thing EVER haha and SO TRUE

I guess to counter that, people who have helped society could've been aborted if their mothers decided to.

So to present you with the other side of the argument: if unaborted babies can kill, they can also save people or made some wonderful discoveries.

Examples: Albert Einstein, Ghandi, George Washington... scientists who are trying find the cure/treatment for aids, doctors...

Those are unaborted babies who made a difference.

in some cases i say " go for it its your body" theses cases involve rape but there is still adoption so there is no need for life to be taken away in this case its not this kids fault if his/her father is a rapist, and the off chance that having the baby will kill you then you have to think about either sparing the chailds life or your own.

in the normal cases of you knowing exactly what your doing i say keep the baby you knew what you were doing and any one knows that un protected sex leads t things such as pregnancy and std's you dont have to use condoms if you dont want there are other contraceptives to prevent pregnacy such as ... the almighty birth control pills if you are forget ful and cand handel the responsiblity of keeping up with your pill every day then hey why dont you try the shot or the patch or anything.. really just because you werent thinking dosnt mean an innocent kid has to die sorry it aint right! just isnt right at all. im tierd of people getting pregnant im sorry let me rephrase that i tihnk i directed that to all woemn who have gotten pregnant how about, im tierd of lazy people or wothless women not using birth control do you not love yourself that much that you wont use some method of birth control its more than one. you should be thanking science for creating them too. so the moral of the sermon is take care of your responsibitly if you can lay down and make the kid you should raise the kid....


i should be president... i know though.. never in a million years