do you think its fair that america recognizes christian holidays [christmas, easter] but not those of other religions?

Hannukah is accepted.

And that's not Christian.

in new york, we recognize jewish holidays, muslim, hindu, and chinese holidays (meaning school is closed on those days or you could have an excused absence for observing one). i don't think america ignores other holidays.

I don't think most of the Christian holidays are official national holidays. Most businesses and other instituations recognize them and close for those days, but that is the choice of the proprietor. Many other holidays are recognized in America, or people at least have the right to recognize them on their own (and not go to work or school).

Ohhh no..it's not. Christmas Day is a National Holiday. Hannukah is not. And I can't get off school for Hannukah in my school, but we get 2 weeks off for Christmas Break. I asked if I could get off to go to temple on Passover and the first day of Hannukah (with my family, seeing as I don't practice Judiasm myself), but I was declined.

People can get off for Ash Wednesday though....

If as in accepted you mean people celebrate well..yes. It's a Jewish holiday; if someone's Jewish, they will celebrate it, and people can't do a thing about it because it's a religious choice and (to my belief, it isn't seeming to be apparent nowadays..) America is not a religious-specific country.

darn dont mean to spam, but i agree with headphones. haha i was gonna reply to that part, but you said everything thats needs to be said about it.

My school will let you go if it's religious...amazingly..

I wasn't sure if that was everywhere though...

Christmas Day isn't inherently Christian, though. Most people recognize December 25th as the birthday of Jesus Christ, however, the Bible states he was born sometime in Spring. Ok, my phone just rang and I forgot my point.

^ where does it say that?

actually, the Bible never said anything about the season of Christ's birth. historians and such made deductions from putting things together. i say deductions, implying more than one possible conclusion, because i've heard that Christ was born in the spring in some readings and autumn from others. but everyone agrees, of course, that He was not born on December 25th.


to the topic at hand: no it's not fair, but my attitude about it is that we can't have everything we want in life.

^*Sigh* The point is is that it is not inherently Christian. I believe that's the date of the Winter Solstice and the Church made it a holiday to encourage early pagans to convert to Christianity. You know, change the meaning of the holiday, but keep the fundamentals intact, makes it less of a shock.

that point was already made and argued in the thread named "you can't have it both ways". in that same thread, i agreed that Christmas is very Christian, but the day itself is not. so yea, i know what you're talking about. i only wanted to point out the fact that the Bible never said anything about the season of Christ's birth since you said the Bible states otherwise.

Hum, just to..expand the debate.

My school is now completely Christian oriented it seems. We now are required to both say the Pledge of Alleigance (all of it, even if we don't want to, which I don't really care about, but others do), have a moment of silence (for no apparent reason other than to pray, since this was instituted on the first day of school, not after the hurricane or anything - there is no reason for it), and we have flyers all over inviting people to come and pray some day in the next 2 weeks (I, of course, didn't pay attention to the date seeing as I am not interested in praying).

However, this is a public school, no? People of many different religions and backgrounds go here. I'm starting to feel as if I don't belong, me being atheist.

And don't say I can choose not to participate, no, no. I must say every bit of the pledge and must participate in the moment of silence (politically correct praying moment).

I don't know, just thought I'd bring that up since we're talking about how Christianity is so much more..put out to people. I mean, I would understand if this was a Christian school but..it's not. We have a lot of people who aren't Christian.

Correct, and the idea of Christmas trees came from pagan Germanic tribes. It was brought to Rome after it converted to Christianity. The Winter Solstice, I believe, was a Roman Holiday adapted to become a Christian one. Since the Romans weren't Christian and worshiped their own gods (stolen from Greece lol) before that (the ones that were were Christian thrown in the Colesseum to be killed or eated by lions and tigers), it would be considered a pagan religion.

Rin-chan

Weird, my school doesn't force you to do the pledge. They also called call it winter break and not Christmas break.

That's all done in texas. Just during the moment of silence most people just close their eyes. Some teachers could really care less though....

We also have to say the stupid state pledge. I mumble it.

About the banners shtuff- Blah blah...i'm going to be one of those stupid people who say Freedom of Speech and Right to Choose religion..blah blah

...so join something that doesn't have to do with Christianity for you?


Most of our teachers just call it Christmas..but whenever the Principals say something to do with it it's called Winter Break, Winter Vacation yadda yadda, that shtuff.

Join something that isn't Christian?....Like what?

Cause ya know, people tooootally love atheists here and all..

Haha, this one chick told me she was going to excorcize me.. Cause I'm so evil.



I'm just going along with the topic. Christianity is much more put out than other religions. They wouldn't even let me make a menorah and not a Christmas tree out of felt in 1st grade..

My school calls it winter break as well.
However, seeing as the rest of the town is mostly Jewish, we get off for just about every Jewish holiday you can bring to the surface. However, we only get one day before, and one day after Easter.

It depends on the majority in the area.

Also, Christmas, has become a lot less about religion. A ton of my friends' families are atheist and still celebrate christmas just because its a nice message or happiness and..um .......gifts.

it does bother me that christmas is soooo recognized. i dont really like going shopping and seeing 90 christmas trees in the galleria. and yet, i do like seeing them... hm..


i dont know. it would be nice if they would recognize other religions for more than one day. its not much to have a news station say Happy Hannukah on the wrong night and only once. really. its just not.


eh. this coming from a lazy jew who gives "new years presents" so that she can have more time to shop and be lazy, and get the after christmas discounts.

man i made a replication of this topic a while ago. and kryo made the first one.

but i like christmas. I mean seriously how many times do you spend time with your family like that? and see their faces light up when they see their present from you . do you really spend that much time together with your family in one day. i know i dont.

but christmas to me has become a tradition. i dont think peolpe who dont believe on God shouldnt be obliged to celebrate it. sure it has religious background but still its a special time.

but aren't some christians campaigning to return christmas to its roots?

to make it into a very religious holiday?

bahhh...i never say "under god" when we're forced to say the pledge. im not sure if anyone notices though. and if htey have a problem with it, then that's their problem.

This is going to seem a bit random, but...

Caytexo, wtf does your icon mean?

back onto the subject, surely there is a club/group that doesn't involve religion?

^....It means that next time when there's a presidential election some people shouldn't vote based soley(sp?) on their religion.

...

That makes no sense at all.

Their religion is what they believe. It's what/how they think.

placing both hands over your mouth during the "under god" part worked for me.

it makes perfect sense in my mind.

a lot of people voted for bush to be reelected based on what they believed in (religion), and not the actual FACTS.

To them RELIGION IS FACTS.

Wtf. Explain yourself. Please.

Their religion = their morals. Their morals happened to parallel with Bush's gah..idk Political scheme? Idk if those are the right words.

But...No...

exactly. their morals are teh same as Bush's, therefore, they vote for him blindly without realizing what kind of a president he truly is. they didn't know what happened behidn the scenes because they were basically being brainwashed with all this bullshit about how we're going to be attacked again. (raising the terrorist code up and down up and down) a lot of people felt safe with him after 9/11, therefore, Bush took advantage of it by exaggerating how we're going to be attacked by terrorists yet again. peopel believed it, voted for him, and now here he is, still the president of good ol' U S of A.

im probably not explaining myself well because i'm extremely exhausted and can't think of the proper words to type. heh...

Do you know what happens "behind-the-curtain"?

A normal citzen, such as myself, has no clue what happens.

No one can tell what type of president the electee will be until he is actually in office and is actually doing something...

It's bullshit that we're going to be attacked again? Considering a lot of people over there hate us, not just Bush but the country too, I think that yes, we're going to get attacked again. In fact it wouldn't suprise me at all if we did.

And why is getting attacked again such a big deal..for your explaination?
\

^ it's been over 4 years since 9/11 and we haven't been attacked yet. 4 years!

^Wow. It's just an icon. Chill, people.

Anywho,
I don't think many Jewish holidays are recognized in the sense that we don't get school or anything. Well, actually, no. There was one year that our picture day was on Rosh Hashana. And for those of you who don't know, Rosh Hashana is the most important Jewish holiday. So I missed it. But, my point is couldn't they look at a calander and say "Oh, look, we can't have picture day on this day because 1/5 of the school will be gone." Does that make any sense?

...so? It can happen at any moment

^ true, but the government definitely mislead people into thinking that there would be a terrorist attack any day.

al queda takes years of planning to attack. any attackes within 4 years of 9/11 were probably set in motion before 9/11.

so so far our safety has been because of the recent attack and alqueda's slow turn around, not because of bush's policies.

well i changed my icon so let's stop the bickeringggg!

wait..this is about christianity in america.. not bush..


or his crappy right-wing policies.



and its really yom kippur thats the most important jewish holiday.

Meh, sorry, they don't really teach us anything at my Hebrew School...

really? At my school (in Texas) we had to recognize all holidays. Even Kwanzaa. So I made menorahs and had to sing some Kwanzaa song in choir (my cousin freaked out becuase she thought we were chanting satanic verses because shes uneducated) and we made Snowflakes (even tho it never snows haha) and we made Christmas trees. And we only had to say the pledge in elementary school. Also, our winter break (not Christmas) works out so that people who celebrate Hannukah (sp?) are out of school as well as those who celebrate Christmas. And I mean, they push easter, but they push the easter bunnies and egg baskets, not what Easter even means. And the moment of silence? Thats not code for prayer moment. that means take time to respectfully reflect on the loss of life dues to "_________" Tragedy. Not pray to God. If you pray you pray. I mean, I'm Christian and I never pray during moments of silence. I just pay my respects. No Dear God, just, I sure hope the families of the people who died in "_______" tragedy are handling this time of year well or whatever. But yeah.

How is that possible? Hannukah starts a different time each year, I remember one year it started in November. Sometimes it starts at the beginning of December...Explain this to me please

How many people of other religions do you have in your school?

In my school, I know a couple people who actually say they're atheists (and a lot who pretty much should be cause they're horrible at being Christian), 2 Bhuddists, and one person who considers themselves to be (born) Jewish. (That would be me.) Two others have dads who are Jewish, but they themselves are Christians.

That's probably why our school is .. basically Christian. They don't even say "Happy Hannukah" on the announcements or anything...

america observes the holidays that can make money.

well christian holidays are really recognized that much anymore. last "spring break" didnt even coninside with easter! so yea. but i do think the christian holidays are fair.

Tru dat. America caters to the majority and the people with money. Unfortunately, that means mostly christian.

Firstly, America recognizes holidays of other religions. Hannukah, Yom Kippur, Boxing Day, Kwaanzah, Rosh Hasanah, and even Epiphany are all recognized and celebrated in America. Just because they dont receive the media and commerical attention that holidays such as Christmas and Easter do doesnt mean they arent celebrated. Secondly, some holidays arent of the Christian religion, but are exactly the opposite-"paegan". Halloween has to do with evil spirits, ghosts, and trickery. The whole object of dressing up is to keep bad spirits away, which is not anywhere in any division of Christianity. The purpose of saying "Trick or Treat" while dressed up was originally a hoax to trick innocent people into believing that evil spirits were at their door and they were going to die if they didnt appease them. Thats not Christian either. Thirdly, its almost illegal to say "Christmas" anymore, it now has to be "X-mas" because of the misinterpretation of the first ammendment's freedom of religion. It was supposed to mean that the government can not establish any one religion as the national religion and can not persecute any person for observing another religion, but people nowadays interpret it as any talk of religion is unconstitutional. America recognizes all religious holidays.

^ i disagree. we get off for christmas and easter but not holidays of other religions. in some schoolsyou aren't even allowed to take a day off to celebrate your holiday. there are always christmas specials on tv but do you ever see specials for other holidays?

Wrong. Sure, they're mentioned on the calender, but I get counted absent for not going to school on Rosh Hashana (Jewish New Year) and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement).

What do you mean it's illegal? Why would it be illegal to say "Christmas"? I don't get what that has to do with the first ammendment..

Ok, please know what you're talking about before you speak.

Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLIDAY. Is Rosh Hashana a National holiday? Is Yom Kippur a National holiday? Is Hannukah a National holiday? No. And who ever said they weren't celebrated? Of course they're celebrated. We're talking about recognition here, not the amount of followers.

NEWSFLASH, Chrismas was brought about based on Pagan customs.
And did we ever say every single holiday that is recognized is Christian? No. That's obvious. New Years Day is another. We never said that. Please don't try to refute arguments that never took place.

America does not recognize all religious holidays. At all. Read through the thread before you post because every single one of your points has already been debated.

Um, there are a LOT of other holidays that are accepted, for example, Hannukah (sp?), Rosh Hasanah (sp? sorry terrible at spelling for jewish holiday ), and etc, but I don't think it's unfair that there are christian holidays that are being recognized by America. Afterall, no one is complaining about it and life is just okay for now. In fact, American celebrates any special holiday. In fact, I got 5 day offs on the first week of October because of a Jewish Holiday. The only Christian Holiday I know that we get a day-off for in America is Christmas and Good Friday...

Whatever you get out of school for is a national holiday..