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Is School really for everyone?, or are we wasting peoples time?
Tsukuyomi-No-Mok...
post Jan 23 2009, 03:19 PM
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So somehting that has crossed my mind recently is the idea of school in general ( not just college) and if it's really for everyone.

I went back home to CT over the winter break and as i got back to CT I noticed alot of the people I've gone to school with have either been left back in the same grade for years now or have dropped out of school or gone to an alternate school for people who've been arrested pregenant students or other things like that.

So I've been thinkin and i've come to the conclusion that School isn't really for everyone.
Here's my reason.

When you are young you can teach a child easily because they don't know anything really about the world around them. They rely on you help them out.
As they get older and get a better sense of their capabilites they go out on their own and explore the world for them selves thus learning intheir own way.

Now when you look at the school system everyone is sent to public school which is basically everyone mixed together and bunched into classes with a teacher who haas to control the students and keep them interested.
In a room full of kids like that it's hard to maintain the students who aren't as readily interested in the class.

The teachers don't really care much because they just have to come in and follow a cirriculum and give out assignments and such so they don't put much effort in to it but then again that depends on the teacher. Some teachers are dedicated to their work and enjoy it and want to really engage the students where as others jus brush it off.

So depending on the teacher a student may be interested in the class or they may not.

Private school is different however with a whole set of different rules such as school uniform to instill a uniform behavior, and a grade requirement so that only students commited to thier work can be enrolled, and lastly you need money to get in.

So there's a big difference in schooling in the basic levels of school.

Where my thought comes in is because when you look at people in those basic levels students that you see staying back year after year after year and end up 21 years old and still in 9th grade there's got to be a sign that says ok let this man go because he's grown up in high school and he's not really going to go any further.

My reason for this thought is because when I look at what happens with those people who stay back constantly and get expelled, they are the ones who get in to the most trouble at school not really showing up for class and not really puttin in the effort in their classes they just go to school because they are "obligated" to go there. So basically it's like saying they believe they HAVE to go to school. the ideal life to live in america is that you go to elementary then middle then high school graduate then go to college. But these people don't care for that so basically they are taking up space in the schools.

The way i see it is that if you force someone to learn something it doesn't nessecerialy mean that they will retain it. Yeah you can learn anything and everything but it never guarantees that you'll be good at it nor does it say that you'll be able to kick back information flawlessly either.

So keeping a person in school who is showing signs of no interest is basically like holding the person hostage in the school because they are only there to see their friends and nothing else so they are taking up the space that someone else could have occupied and gotten something out of.

Also the constant strain on people to go to college.
I don't see why everyone is pressured soo heavily to go to college off the bat because for some people college is nothing to them their parents pay for it so they jus go there and chill party and have fun the entire time not really showing school any care because they get money from the parents and they survive like that. meanwhile others jus go to college without a clue as to what they want to do and go there because they are told that they HAVE to go there after high school.

The other percentage of those people are the ones who are driven to do something with themselves and want to make something of them selves. there are a few who are somewhat unsure of what they want to do but still manage to find their way.

I don't think any form of education should be forced upon someone after a certian level and that level would be high school. once you get to high school if someone really shows no effort they should simply drop out and find some other form of occupation for their life.

No one can truly learn well if they are forced to learn someting they hav eno interest in or no motivation to do.

Me from personal experience I hated academics bacuse I was terribly un organized and I hated having to do all the different subjects but the ones i enjoyed i excelled in. Im in college now and I'm getting straight A's now because i'm doing something i want to do so it's no longer a chore for me to do. So that's where i get my reasoning from so please read this all and get at me tell me what ya think.

Btw i don't mean to be offending anyone it's just my thoughts....
 
butre
post Jan 23 2009, 03:37 PM
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Some people are just wasting their time at school. The world needs labor to function, and school delays pay.
 
Tsukuyomi-No-Mok...
post Jan 23 2009, 03:54 PM
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The way I see it is the U.S they lack alot of the fundamentals required to have a strong work ethic. everyone is all about doing things the easy way. Wen i see other countries people there put their education so high in regard it's crazy the extremes they go to hold things together and learn as much as possible. So basically people i see here in America when you ask them somethings it's pathetic that they can't answer simple things.

I mean in school I didn't have the greatest grades but i still liked learning and if i found somethin interesting i'd try to study and grasp it the best i could
other htan that I mean i put in work and i'm makin it as what i wanna be a director producer actor and everything else
but when people don't try and expect to get somewhere or parents to take care of them it pisses me off cause there are so many people who rally want what they got which is a shot at learning somethin to make somehtin of them self. nah mean?
 
Mickey
post Jan 23 2009, 04:07 PM
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I sort of agree with you. I skipped three years of high school but I don't feel left out since I'm focusing on something that doesn't need
much education. Why waste skrilla on something I don't need? When I think about it, I saved me and my parents quite a lot of money.
I met this guy the other day who is currently in uni taking a Graphic Design degree. He told me he got accepted without having to take
a Graphic Design course in college. When he was interviewed, all they needed from him was experience, skill, and a sweet portfolio.

Of course, that's not the case for everybody. High school's different compared to college because you choose what you want to study.

If people don't pay attention in class and you see that as a reason for school not being for everyone, then that is where I disagree. It's
the person's problem if they miss out on their education because they will eventually get slapped with consequences in the long run.
 
queen
post Jan 23 2009, 04:10 PM
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no one really "forces" anyone to go to school. there are dropouts everywhere. if they want to leave, they can.
 
karmakiller
post Jan 23 2009, 04:15 PM
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I think you spell check before you post something saying that people don't need education. There are so many factors that play into why someone would fail a grade, or why someone would choose to continue their education in a college setting. I think you're making hasty generalizations when you claim that there are two broad categories that college students fall into: having parents pay for them to party, or actually studying without aim. Not all students whose parents are helping pay for their education are slackers going to parties, and not everyone who is paying their own way studies all the time.

I think it depends on the subject matter and the teacher as to if you enjoy the class or benefit from it. There is a reason certain curriculum is required. There are always going to be teachers who don't care, but that's not the case in a college setting. In college the instructors are there for you because they choose to be. You are paying the money. If you don't like the instructor do not stay in that class. You don't have that option in high school.
 
Tsukuyomi-No-Mok...
post Jan 23 2009, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE(karmakiller @ Jan 23 2009, 04:15 PM) *
I think you spell check before you post something saying that people don't need education. There are so many factors that play into why someone would fail a grade, or why someone would choose to continue their education in a college setting. I think you're making hasty generalizations when you claim that there are two broad categories that college students fall into: having parents pay for them to party, or actually studying without aim. Not all students whose parents are helping pay for their education are slackers going to parties, and not everyone who is paying their own way studies all the time.

I think it depends on the subject matter and the teacher as to if you enjoy the class or benefit from it. There is a reason certain curriculum is required. There are always going to be teachers who don't care, but that's not the case in a college setting. In college the instructors are there for you because they choose to be. You are paying the money. If you don't like the instructor do not stay in that class. You don't have that option in high school.



I don't think you got me on the college part.

I didn't say that those categories i stated were the only categories.
I'm speaking from what i see and such but this is jus to get everyone's input. I know that there are many other types of people who are in college for whatever reason they are there.

the idea behind grade school.
Education up to high school i believe you should def. take it but when you get to high school
IF you don't show any motivation and consistently fail showing NO motivation or drive to do the work or even really show up then yea why are you in school.
Even if they are pushed to learn something and the blow it off that's more than enough of a sign that you're wasting their time.
 
Mickey
post Jan 23 2009, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE(Tsukuyomi-No-Mokoto @ Jan 24 2009, 12:45 AM) *
the idea behind grade school.
Education up to high school i believe you should def. take it but when you get to high school
IF you don't show any motivation and consistently fail showing NO motivation or drive to do the work or even really show up then yea why are you in school.
Even if they are pushed to learn something and the blow it off that's more than enough of a sign that you're wasting their time.

QUOTE(synkiro @ Jan 23 2009, 11:10 PM) *
no one really "forces" anyone to go to school. there are dropouts everywhere. if they want to leave, they can.

And like I stated:

QUOTE(Mike @ Jan 23 2009, 11:07 PM) *
If people don't pay attention in class and you see that as a reason for school not being for everyone, then that is where I disagree. It's
the person's problem if they miss out on their education because they will eventually get slapped with consequences in the long run.
 
Tsukuyomi-No-Mok...
post Jan 23 2009, 05:52 PM
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If someone does not show the drive to be in school.
like coming to school rarely and causing trouble not doing any work and all
then i ask why are they in school.
yea its their fault
but why keep them in school if thats all they'll do
 
Mickey
post Jan 23 2009, 06:08 PM
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Like synkiro stated, no one forces them to be in school. It's their choice to go there and waste their time. As for schools, I'm pretty sure they only keep students like those to make money off of them.
 
synatribe
post Jan 23 2009, 06:45 PM
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I dont think people "need" school ,but people do need education (whether they educate themselves with their interest, or going to an institution) and school keeps child labor out :]
 
karmakiller
post Jan 23 2009, 08:47 PM
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So if people aren't motivated to pay their taxes, does that mean that they shouldn't pay them? (Because, then, taxes just aren't their thing.)
 
*KINGdinguhling*
post Jan 23 2009, 11:57 PM
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hell no, of course not
 
Tsukuyomi-No-Mok...
post Jan 24 2009, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE(karmakiller @ Jan 23 2009, 08:47 PM) *
So if people aren't motivated to pay their taxes, does that mean that they shouldn't pay them? (Because, then, taxes just aren't their thing.)


that's different though public school is funded by the tax payer dollars
so basically public school education is free
you screw up there isn't raelly much of a consequence until your screwed later on in life.

not paying your taxes however try that and see how quickly yyou catch hell for it
 
karmakiller
post Jan 24 2009, 01:19 AM
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lol, bad analogy.

I kind of see this conversation going towards the issue of maturity, because people might think that someone in high school isn't mature enough to see the consequences that dropping out of school will have on their future. But if a kid doesn't want to be in school, they simply won't go to class (and fail out of school). Of all the people that I know who dropped out of school, not one of them has been successful in the work force. Where I live there is a strong negative association that comes along with being a "drop out". We can't make students go to school or stay in school, but I also think it's a load of crap when a teacher designs a class just so that he/she does not have to fail a student.
 
Tsukuyomi-No-Mok...
post Jan 24 2009, 03:06 AM
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Yea i get what ya mean.

Wher i come from though the teachers don't really care there's a very small amount of teachers who try and help students.it's really sad actually cause the violence in the schools are terrible i mean even teachers get attacked by students and all that and my mom has been a teacher at the high schools and she hates how the whole system works cause after a while the teachers are only tryna reach their retirment and get outta there
 
Mickey
post Jan 24 2009, 05:33 AM
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^You ain't seen nothing yet. You should go visit my old middle school. We got so many substitutes 'cause the teachers are never there.
 
alison-apples
post Jan 25 2009, 03:53 AM
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School isn't just to learn. It's to fuel ideas, provide healthy growth of the brain, and help people connect socially. Math classes may be boring, meticulous, and monotonous, but it helps the brain grow. It really does keep people healthy.

I think school should be for everyone... up to a certain point. I think a system that, from middle school, people could select trade schools. By then, at least people have an inkling of what they want to do with their life.

Also, statistically, people who go through college live better lives. I mean, there's room for more than a few exceptions, but it holds true for most. I'd rather go through school and hate it, but end up content with what I'm doing later in life. That's just me, though.
 
RoyalSwagger
post Jan 29 2009, 03:34 AM
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hell no I want to drop out and not tell my parents. I love school but Im distracted by to much at the moment.
 
mipadi
post Jan 30 2009, 05:17 PM
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Fundamentally I agree with you, but my opinions are formed from different observations (some of which are at least tangential to your own).

First of all, primary and secondary education in the US is a joke. It's really a glorified babysitting service, a place for working parents in an industrialized, capitalist society to send their children for the day. It doesn't prepare students for "real life", and it certainly doesn't produce adults who can think critically about the world around them.

College does to an extent, but the problem now is that most people don't go to college to really become educated or "enlightened". As noted in this thread, most go to school so that they can have a better life down the road. But that's the problem with higher education: it emphasizes the mentality "I'm going to school so my life can be better," not "I'm going to school so I can better society." It produces students who, more often than not, are more interested in "making a lot of money", rather than truly improving the lives of others.

The goal of education has become more focuses on the attainment of material goods, rather than on the pursuit of intellectual nirvana. And that is why education is, for the most part, rubbish.
 
*KINGdinguhling*
post Jan 30 2009, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE(mipadi @ Jan 30 2009, 02:17 PM) *
The goal of education has become more focuses on the attainment of material goods, rather than on the pursuit of intellectual nirvana. And that is why education is, for the most part, rubbish.

I wouldn't say nirvana, but a sort of synaesthesia, also, i do think that if we have an "learn whatever you want" policy, human relation would deteroriate since there would be no foundation and basic knowledge we would all share, just 6.7 independent people being smart in whatever they want
 
Tsukuyomi-No-Mok...
post Jan 30 2009, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE(Mike @ Jan 24 2009, 05:33 AM) *
^You ain't seen nothing yet. You should go visit my old middle school. We got so many substitutes 'cause the teachers are never there.



and where i come from teachers get jumped by students people stay gettin shot stabbed and all that and gangs run the school pretty much.
there's always people gettin caught havin sex in the stair wells and people gettin juumped everyday
thats what high school was like for me but i mean at leas you can point out whos gonna pass and who's not
 
shanaynay
post Jan 30 2009, 07:26 PM
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I hate school, the only reason I go to it is because it's a requirement for college. Highschool is a waste of time, they just teach you useless crap you'll never use. Electives are the only classes I actually pay attention in.
 

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