Abortion Options

[*CrackedRearView*]

ehh...

i think if abortions were illegal, black market drugs that cause a mother to abort the baby would be sold, at risk to the mother.

also, canada would get a rather lot of buiseness in abortion clinics.

Does that mean we shouldn't outlaw them?

If so the same can be applied to murdering children and slinging crack-cocaine.

People are going to do them anyway, so we should let it happen on a regulated basis!

I hate that logic. Simply hate it.

[sadolakced acid]

Does that mean we shouldn't outlaw them?

If so the same can be applied to murdering children and slinging crack-cocaine.

People are going to do them anyway, so we should let it happen on a regulated basis!

I hate that logic.  Simply hate it.

ehh. like it or not, some people don't believe abortion is wrong.

now, if the people who don't believe abortion is wrong don't force people who think it's' wrong to get abortion, and the people who think abortion is wrong don't force people who don't think it's wrong to not get abortions, then that's fair.

it's a matter of freedom. abortions, arguably, don't hurt any registered living human being. arguably, if from the point of conception is where you're counting it to be a living human being, then arguably, it's still the mother's untill it's born.

outlawing abortions is taking away a 'right' that people have had for a while and people in other countries have.

not giving people rights is easy. taking them away, that's harder.

it'd be like... saying women can't serve in the military anymore.

[*CrackedRearView*]

Until you can prove to me that abortion isn't wrong (which you haven't done), allowing abortions, to me, is like legalizing murder and the selling of crack-cocaine.

[sikdragon]

^ uhh, you contradicted yourself there, buddy. you should shoot mothers who would die from their baby? so then that's killing two people, and not just one? oook then. i think your logic is pretty skewed.

I think your vision is pretty skewed. I think we should go back to the letter system. If a woman is a whore she should have a small red W sewn into all her clothes.

[*CrackedRearView*]

Was it a 'W' or an 'A'?

[sikdragon]

I dunno i saw it on SNL.

double post

[sadolakced acid]

Until you can prove to me that abortion isn't wrong (which you haven't done), allowing abortions, to me, is like legalizing murder and the selling of crack-cocaine.

bah. abortion isn't wrong because:

in the first trimester, the fetal material is not congnitive. the brain has not developed any higher learning areas.

sure, it looks human, but it's only 3 cm long and it's still forming.

it is, at this stage, still a parasite. this can be recognized in fetuses where the mother's immune system isn't put in check- it kills the fetus.

and in the ones where the mother's immune system does the wrong thing- it kills the mother.

and the most imporant reason why abortions aren't wrong, as of now, is that they're legal. prove why they're wrong.

[sammi rules you]

justin, using that it's legal isn't going to help us. ciggarettes are legal too, as is alcohol.

also, something i pointed out in the stem cell research thread..

an organism is not considered living until it has all of these characteristics:

Living things are made of cells.
Living things obtain and use energy.
Living things grow and develop.
Living things reproduce.
Living things respond to their environment.
Living things adapt to their environment.

in 1st trimester pregnancies, the embryo does not have all of these characteristics. it has not started eating (obtaining and using energy), it cannot reproduce, it is not yet growing and developing (maybe in late 1st trimester), it does not respond or adapt to its environment..it is just a lump of cells, which is not a living organism.

[pink_p0lo]

i think its wrong, even if you've been raped. is it the baby's fault that you were raped? or that you had sex? if you dont want it, people can put it up for adoption,or something. what if that babylearns how to live forever or find the cure for cancer in the future?

[*not_your_average*]

i think its wrong, even if you've been raped. is it the baby's fault that you were raped? or that you had sex? if you dont want it, people can put it up for adoption,or something. what if that babylearns how to live forever or find the cure for cancer in the future?

This is a debate. Please back up your opinion with facts.

Anywho, many, many people have been born, but not one of them has found a cure for cancer yet, right? That is a weak and baseless arguement against abortion.

[Spirited Away]

i think its wrong, even if you've been raped. is it the baby's fault that you were raped? or that you had sex? if you dont want it, people can put it up for adoption,or something. what if that babylearns how to live forever or find the cure for cancer in the future?

please, please learn to read the thread before posting in the debate forum. it is part of the rules. thanks.

[*CrackedRearView*]

in 1st trimester pregnancies, the embryo does not have all of these characteristics. it has not started eating (obtaining and using energy), it cannot reproduce, it is not yet growing and developing (maybe in late 1st trimester), it does not respond or adapt to its environment..it is just a lump of cells, which is not a living organism.

1) Should we just start ending all potential?
2) Several thousand 2nd trimester abortions occur annually, and several hundred 3rd trimester abortions; justify that.

[sadolakced acid]

1) Should we just start ending all potential?
2) Several thousand 2nd trimester abortions occur annually, and several hundred 3rd trimester abortions; justify that.

responding to 1)

potential is ended all the time. every month by billions of females. there is tons of potential around. if a 4 cell embryo is divided in half, it will become two identical twins. but just because there is to potential for an extra life there doesn't mean it has to happen.

and, in the end, that's what an feotus is. potential. just potential for life. which means- not life. and we shouldn't start ending all potential; but we shouldn't stop ending potential either. potential could be for good or bad- just because there is the potential for good doesn't mean you should allow it.

sure, that potential may find the cure for cancer. they could also cause the destruction of the human race. but, to be realistic, how adopted babies now a days find cures to anything?


anyways:

people go outside the country to adopt babies because they don't want black babies. that's just the way life is. so, what happens for all the unwanted babies that are newly in the adoption system? all the pretty white babies will be adopted... and then white soccer moms who want a baby without the trouble will pay 32,000 dollars to go to russia to adopt a baby.

if abortions are illegalized, then where do all the other babies go? the ones that no one wants, because they don't look america, they don't fit with the decoration? how many people do you think will walk into the adoption center and say, hey- give me your ugliest baby that nobody wants.

don't see too many adopters saying "that baby has AIDs? we want to adopt him!"

the adoption system works well. if you're a good looking white baby. but when people go to russia to adopt babies because " they look american, and you can't get american looking babies in america anymore, you just can't", you can't in all honesty say it's working for everyone else.

[sammi rules you]

2) Several thousand 2nd trimester abortions occur annually, and several hundred 3rd trimester abortions; justify that.

however, i do only support 1st trimester abortions. maybe 2nd trimester, but in extreme circumstances, but never 3rd.

and yea, when women go on their period, that's ending potential lives too. .. should we outlaw menstruating? (sp? gosh, i never ever knew how to spell that..)

[vehvih]

Even if abortion would be illegalized.. some pregnant women would still do it due to their situations..

[*CrackedRearView*]

responding to 1)

potential is ended all the time.  every month by billions of females.  there is tons of potential around.  if a 4 cell embryo is divided in half, it will become two identical twins.  but just because there is to potential for an extra life there doesn't mean it has to happen. 

and, in the end, that's what an feotus is.  potential.  just potential for life.  which means- not life.  and we shouldn't start ending all potential; but we shouldn't stop ending potential either.  potential could be for good or bad- just because there is the potential for good doesn't mean you should allow it. 

sure, that potential may find the cure for cancer.  they could also cause the destruction of the human race.  but,  to be realistic, how adopted babies now a days find cures to anything? 

Alright then. When I become a politician, I'll be sure to end all social welfare programs because God forbid I go against sadolacked acid's sentence.

just because there is the potential for good doesn't mean you should allow it.

[sadolakced acid]

ehh. you're taking that out of context.

anyways; social welfare systems help people who are alive.

[biglamchops]

Seriously...for all those people that don't know anything about abortions and are saying...if its done early its not really alive and not murder. If you ever seen pictures and videos captions of abortions being done..you'd think otherwise. It only takes like a week and a half for the baby to be differentialized. IE. Having a body, arms, hands, legs, basically a little human being already. Women can't find out they're pregnant until a week after their missed period so....do the math. What happens in abortions is that they rip apart limb by limb the small baby inside the woman. its sad...its murder i'd say. I used to be for abortions because i didn't know much about them, and thought i'd rather not have the child...but then i found out what really happens. That's all i gotta say...but really its the girls choice.

[sadolakced acid]

Seriously...for all those people that don't know anything about abortions and are saying...if its done early its not really alive and not murder.  If you ever seen pictures and videos captions of abortions being done..you'd think otherwise.  It only takes like a week and a half for the baby to be differentialized.  IE. Having a body, arms, hands, legs, basically a little human being already.  Women can't find out they're pregnant until a week after their missed period so....do the math.  What happens in abortions is that they rip apart limb by limb the small baby inside the woman.  its sad...its murder i'd say.  I used to be for abortions because i didn't know much about them, and thought i'd rather not have the child...but then i found out what really happens.  That's all i gotta say...but really its the girls choice.

i have seen pictures and vidoes of what the feotus looks like in various stages of devolopment. i also know what's happening there.

having limbs isn't the requirement to be alive.

that's just a framework. it's a scaffolding. it's a mold. inside, the various cells are differentiation and dividing. because the foetus is more than three cells thick, it need to hvae a blood supply, so the heart develops and starts beating pretty soon.

however; the baby will not develop working nerves untill the middle of the third trimester. the nerves don't work because they haven't been mylenated yet.

yes. abortions require cutting apart a cell mass and extracting it piece by piece. but it's not more human than a teretoma- a mass of ESCs (or EC- embryonic carcinoma) cells that form a tumor and differentiates into teeth and hair and nerves and a heart. it's the the exact same as a feotus, just not in the right places. neither are alive.

[*xcaitlinx*]

hahah sorry but i have to say this.

"No, you may not get an abortion! We're conservatives! That's the one way that we don't kill people!" -American Dad

[sammi rules you]

^ haha.

Seriously...for all those people that don't know anything about abortions and are saying...if its done early its not really alive and not murder. If you ever seen pictures and videos captions of abortions being done..you'd think otherwise.

READ THE THREEEEAD.

if you had read my post about the characteristics of living things, you'd KNOW otherwise.

[*CrackedRearView*]

ehh.  you're taking that out of context.

anyways; social welfare systems help people who are alive.

None of whom are more important than the person that would grow from an 'unimportant, disposable fetus'.

A homeless man with an addiction to methamphetamines is more worthy of the government's protection than a would-be innocent baby?

But sure, I guess you're right. I read an example about a woman named Teesha Groth in New York who's had seven abortions and is only 27 years old.

I can see how you'd want to fight for that 'right'. [/sarcasm]

[antix10_kos]

This topic has just been beat into the ground.

Everyone's point of view is different and mostly dependent upon their religion and personal beliefs. Why even debate this topic is nothing is going to come of it? It's not like you can really change anyone's beliefs regarding abortion on a message board...

Here is a brief explination of my view:

1) Yes, a fetus is alive from the moment of conception.
2) No. 1 is a technicality, because even though it is alive, it CANNOT feel nor truly grasp what is being done. Only the mother and other human beings on the OUTSIDE can.
3) Once the mother is past 6 months in her pregnancy, abortion should not an option. Period. A-D-O-P-T-I-O-N, people.....
4) I think that abortion should be used as birth control when necessary to keep drug addicts, prostitues and the terminally ill from reproducing.

Anyone who thinks I'm radical or wrong or both.....well, I might be but I am not going to change or repent.

[andriaalazing*]

im pro-choice, but its a difficult matter to talk about. there are certain times it should be allowed and certain times it shouldn't. but realisitcly you can't have that sort of law..so if i had to choose one or the other i'd say yes. but only allow like..one per person, cause thats ridiculous to have to have multiple abortions.

[andriaalazing*]

This topic has just been beat into the ground.

Everyone's point of view is different and mostly dependent upon their religion and personal beliefs. Why even debate this topic is nothing is going to come of it? It's not like you can really change anyone's beliefs regarding abortion on a message board...

Here is a brief explination of my view:

1) Yes, a fetus is alive from the moment of conception.
2) No. 1 is a technicality, because even though it is alive, it CANNOT feel nor truly grasp what is being done. Only the mother and other human beings on the OUTSIDE can.
3) Once the mother is past 6 months in her pregnancy, abortion should not an option. Period. A-D-O-P-T-I-O-N, people.....
4) I think that abortion should be used as birth control when necessary to keep drug addicts, prostitues and the terminally ill from reproducing.

Anyone who thinks I'm radical or wrong or both.....well, I might be but I am not going to change or repent.

ah, yes. i also agree with this. (=