Is the Confederate Flag Racist? Options

[onenonly101]

Many people have different views on this. Some say no because the flag is their heritage and many say yes because of what it represents now i nthe present. So the question is If the Confederate Flag Racist.

This was started on another forum and this is what i had to say (keep in mind some people were replying back so, sorry if i repeated my self in any sentences, also it was also starting to talk about the war)

My opinion on the confederate flag is all over the place actually. i think that it the ways it is used can be racist. it started off as a symbol of pride and finished off as a symbol of haterd. many people have twisted the flag and its view to make it as a symbol of haterd not only against blacks, but jews, hispanics, catholics, and anyone who was not like them. Personally i do not think that there should have been a confederate flag in the first place because as the so called United States we shouldn't have ever divided ourselves.

Ok when i say it has turned out to now be a symbol of racism i mean that when the flag first came about it was all about southern pride and heritage and what not. but after the civil war when the KKK was created they used the flag as a symbol of haterd of minorities and when in the 50s when all the hate groups were becoming even more fired up against blacks they waved around that flag at all their meetings when they were saying i hate blacks, jews, and everybody who isn't me. some people now still see it as only a symbol of heritage, but you have to put yourself in a minorties body and see what we see when every time you see the flag it is always associated with somethingd bad as racism, what more can you think.

I don't think anyone said the war was just about slavery. It was about states rights and slavery because the question of states rights arose because of slavery. The thing is now the flag is associated with all the hate groups. They don't have the right to use it but it doesn't change the fact that they do use it. When everything is all done and said with all people will remember is that neo-nazi, kkk, and other hate groups used that flag.
I say i don't like to see the flag because all i see is hate.

I haven't been taught to only see hate. I actually used to believe that is wasn't racist, when everyone said it was. The thing is that when i started researching things like the Civil war and other things I realized the intentions of it weren't meant to be racist but it is now and there is nothing to change that.

Ya'll keep saying it wasn't over slavery. The reason the states succeeded to union wqas because of slavery. The issue of states right to govern and allow to have slaves is what caused the split. If there wasn't the issue of slavery i can bet there wouldn't have been a civil war.
How can a flag hold your heritage. There is no more Confederacy so you there shouldn't be the Confederate flag. How can you love a flag that represents separation?.
Like i said before you have to look from the other point of view. I've been on both sides and everytime i see that flag it is behind someone saying they agree with separation. take how you wanna, but in my eyes it is racist,

I never said the north was dead set against slavery or that northern states didn't have slaves so i don't know how that got into the agrument. Also they returned the slaves bcak because there was rewards, everybody is money hungry AND laws. Also those states that had slave in the north went with the succession with the south so then they were apart of the confederacy.
Poor people did have slaves. Most of the southerners yeah weren't rich enough to buy many slaves, but that doesn't mean that they didn't have slaves. Almost one-third of all Southern families owned slaves. In Mississippi and South Carolina it approached one half. Also the states who were near the north weren't considered nothern states they were ocnsidered borderline states. And they did not suceede to the Confederacy.
I shouldn't have said if i did, slavery was the only reason. The slavery issue however was the largest issue and the one of most concern. Other factors like politcally stemmed from slavery because before they made the 3/4 compromise, people in the North said if they are just property then they shouldn't be counted toward the voting rep in Congress, but the Southerns disagreed because the more people the more reps you could have. That was one of the issues that started the Civil War.The South also suceeded because they though Lincolin was going to free slaves even though he never advocated abolishing slavery.
But back to the flag

I meant to ask ya'll before what Confederate do you love or whatever. Because for example Georgia's flag up until 2001 was not the original Confederate flag it was a Confederate flag put up to protest the Supreme court's decision on Brown vs. Board of Education.
The flag is a representation of slavery because there wasn't a confederate flag until the succession. What i don't understand is how you say you have an alliegence to a flag of a nonexistent place. There is no more Union or Confederacy it is simply the United States of America. Yeah the Confederacy consisted of southern states but doesn't mean that it should represent the states or what not.

finished sorry it was alot

[*kryogenix*]

the flag isn't racist. neither is the swastika. it's the ideas that were behind the two that are racist.

[WildGriffin]

the flag isn't racist. neither is the swastika. it's the ideas that were behind the two that are racist.

And when people flaunt it, it's fully racist. Most people have enough common sense not to parade an archaic symbol around that stands for hate. If you see some redneck or skinhead with a swastika/confederate flag, punch em in the stomach and show them what hate feels like when you're on the recieving end.

[WhiteChocolate]

And when people flaunt it, it's fully racist. Most people have enough common sense not to parade an archaic symbol around that stands for hate. If you see some redneck or skinhead with a swastika/confederate flag, punch em in the stomach and show them what hate feels like when you're on the recieving end.

That is a racist view in itself.

You are absolutely wrong. It must take someone who lives in the south to understand this. It doesn't represent the hatred that of course we allll have for black people, because you know, we're southern, so we must be a bunch of racists, right? (That was sarcasm)
No, it's about our heritage, it's about where we came from. If it's a symbol of hatred to you, then tough.

It's rediculous these days what people try to say is racist. It's freakin retarded and I, personally, am sick and tired of someone screaming "racist" over the stupidest crap.

[EmeraldKnight]

That is a racist view in itself.

You are absolutely wrong. It must take someone who lives in the south to understand this. It doesn't represent the hatred that of course we allll have for black people, because you know, we're southern, so we must be a bunch of racists, right? (That was sarcasm)
No, it's about our heritage, it's about where we came from. If it's a symbol of hatred to you, then tough.

It's rediculous these days what people try to say is racist. It's freakin retarded and I, personally, am sick and tired of someone screaming "racist" over the stupidest crap. 

I agree, I mean.. just because a minority of ppl may abuse it for racism, but that doesnt mean that we should classify southerners as a whole and discredit their heritage

Society tends to want to block out bad memories, and thats why the Confederate flag is looked down upon, because it represents southern heritage, but also a heritage that owned slaves, and ppl want to forget that part of history.. like in Germany.. how ppl try to completely block out the fact that Hitler ever was in power

[onenonly101]

the flag isn't racist. neither is the swastika. it's the ideas that were behind the two that are racist.

flags are a representation of something so therefore it could be racist.

No, it's about our heritage, it's about where we came from. If it's a symbol of hatred to you, then tough.

I'm from the South and i feel no connection to that flag why? because the flag was of the Confederacy a place that doesn't exist anymore. The flag came about because of the sucession of the Confederacy making their own "country" the flag representated that country and like i said before there is no Confederacy anymore so how can it hold the heritage and how can you love it. The flag represents separation and discrimination and a whole lot of unpositive things because of the way it is used. Nothing will change that fact.

[EmeraldKnight]

I'm from the South and i feel no connection to that flag why? because the flag was of the Confederacy a place that doesn't exist anymore. The flag came about because of the sucession of the Confederacy making their own "country" the flag representated that country and like i said before there is no Confederacy anymore so how can it hold the heritage and how can you love it. The flag represents separation and discrimination and a whole lot of unpositive things because of the way it is used. Nothing will change that fact.

The flag represents a period in Southern history, you CANNOT DENY THOSE YEARS, I mean. it'd be nice to be able to erase things from history, but you simply cant do that.. sure the Confederacy used it during the war, but to those soldiers defending their homes against the invading Union Army, the majority of them werent fighting for to uphold slavery, they were fighting to defend their homeland, you cannot disregard the valor and sacrificies made by the soldiers during that time period

[Jiggapin0]

The Confederates lost. Geez, get rid of your flag already. Hahaha.

[strice]

the flag itself isn't racist, but the people that were represented by it in the civil war were. its like say the art club has a lot of nice people but its still the art club not the nice people club.

[flyin_HAWAiiAN]

the flag itself isn't racist, but the people that were represented by it in the civil war were. its like say the art club has a lot of nice people but its still the art club not the nice people club.

i agree, its what the flag stands for, same as the swastika. people have a right to be proud of their heritage but the flag represents something that wasn't so nice. i think you should not use the flag however because it is offending to some people.

[WhiteChocolate]

The flag represents a period in Southern history, you CANNOT DENY THOSE YEARS, I mean. it'd be nice to be able to erase things from history, but you simply cant do that.. sure the Confederacy used it during the war, but to those soldiers defending their homes against the invading Union Army, the majority of them werent fighting for to uphold slavery, they were fighting to defend their homeland, you cannot disregard the valor and sacrificies made by the soldiers during that time period

EXACTLY!

The Confederates lost. Geez, get rid of your flag already. Hahaha.

No freakin' comment.

i agree, its what the flag stands for, same as the swastika. people have a right to be proud of their heritage but the flag represents something that wasn't so nice. i think you should not use the flag however because it is offending to some people.

I would like to say that I see your point, but I really don't. I respect you for your opinion, but I totally disagree that it should be banned. You must be FOR censorship, too, then?

[*kryogenix*]

flags are a representation of something so therefore it could be racist.

if that's true, then the flag only represents the south's secession from the union, not racism.

[juliar]

i agree, its what the flag stands for, same as the swastika. people have a right to be proud of their heritage but the flag represents something that wasn't so nice. i think you should not use the flag however because it is offending to some people.

Wait, last time I checked the COnfederate flag was a flag for the south, not for racism. Just because a majority of the people in the southh back in the old days were against blacks, doesnt mean that that flag is a symbol of hatred for blacks. It's 2004.
And also, just because it represents a period of time doesnt mean it represents the hate. I mean, I really don't see a huge picture of a black getting hung on there, do i?

[WildGriffin]

A majority of people, not all, but a majority of them in Germany were nazis during WW2 and they choose the swastika as their symbol.

A majority of people, not all, but a majority of them in the South were racist biggots during the revolutionay war and they choose the confederate flag as their symbol.

No difference. Go parade the swastika while you're at it. At least it's more recent.

If you're gonna celebrate a populaces "heritage" with their defeated symbol, go for it. The truth is, alot of people find it offensive. I'm sure people are in their right to wave some flag from way back when, but whoever said it was "2004" is basically right. Move on, find a new flag; not the flag that shows your ancestors mislead ways.

[pimpin231]

THE FLAG MEANS REBEL

[EmeraldKnight]

THE FLAG MEANS REBEL 

No comment

A majority of people, not all, but a majority of them in Germany were nazis during WW2 and they choose the swastika as their symbol.

A majority of people, not all, but a majority of them in the South were racist biggots during the revolutionay war and they choose the confederate flag as their symbol.

No difference. Go parade the swastika while you're at it. At least it's more recent.

There is a difference, there wasnt a majority of ppl that were Nazis in Germany, power was held and controlled strictly by a select few who used terror tactics to keep power.. a lot of ppl fought for the german army because they were afraid of what might happen to them or their families if they refused

The Conferderacy on the other hand, believed in their flag, not because it represented racism, only a SELECT MINORITY of the south were aristocratic slaveowners, most soliders didnt fight for slavery, they fought for their homeland, for their families, by erasing the flag from history erases all the courageous deeds done by the soldiers for what they believed in; thats the most important difference between the Confederate flag and the Nazi Swatstika, ppl believed in the flag, believed in it for a different reason than the connotation of slavery that most ppl think today

i think you should not use the flag however because it is offending to some people.

That's the exact same argument that the issue about the pledge of allegience brings up.. just because its offensive to some ppl, should we not say the pledge as well?

[juliar]

I agree with emerald...I mean, if it offends you, don't use it, don't look at it, don't address it. No one's telling you to.

[onenonly101]

When the flag is on the state capital it implies the visions behind the flag and that it is ok

[ComradeRed]

The Confederate Flag is part of history... it should be regarded as that, not as something racist.

My avatar is a Hitler smiley? Does that make me a Nazi? no.

[darkcoldplace]

doesn't seem racist to me but, anyways no comment otherwise.

[ComradeRed]

A majority of people, not all, but a majority of them in Germany were nazis during WW2 and they choose the swastika as their symbol.

A majority of people, not all, but a majority of them in the South were racist biggots during the revolutionay war and they choose the confederate flag as their symbol.

No difference. Go parade the swastika while you're at it. At least it's more recent.

If you're gonna celebrate a populaces "heritage" with their defeated symbol, go for it. The truth is, alot of people find it offensive. I'm sure people are in their right to wave some flag from way back when, but whoever said it was "2004" is basically right. Move on, find a new flag; not the flag that shows your ancestors mislead ways.

But the flag is just so cool!

Just for the record, the issue of states' rights that started the Civil War was NOT just over slavery. Another equally important issue was the Tariff. South wanted low, North wanted high. South Carolina threatened to Nullify the COnstitution in 1832. Was it because of slavery? NO. It was because the the tariff. When the Confederates wrote their constitution, they made extra sure to prevent high tariffs.

The Confederacy has had a lot of bad rap recently. Not to be a racist bigot, but if you actually bothered to read the Confederate Constitution, you can see that it was a MUCH better Constitution for a free society than the US Constitution, with the single exception, of course, of slavery. The US Constitution appears fascist by comparison.

If the Confederate Constitution were amended to abolish slavery, I would live under that over the Union Constitution any day.

Some reasons the Confederate Constituion would be better than the American one:

- One term limit for presidents: No FDR Dictatorship. We wouldn't have to worry about Bush being reelected.
- Banned the use of Riders on Bills: No "Protection of Children 2003 Act" that allows Congress to tax online products. This has actually happened.
- 2/3 Majority in Congress to approve new spending: Bye bye, $4 trillion deficit
- Abolished bounties. No secret police or FBI-hired hitmen.
- Internal improvements restricted. No longer can State A use its political clout to tkae money from State B--Federal authority restricted to federal matters.
- All spending bills rigidly defined: No social security act.
- Naturalization requirement removed for the Senate: Immigrants do not need to fulfill a residency requirement to run for Senate.
- The entire Bill of Rights in its entirety, with more emphasis on strict interpretation of powers: That means no PATRIOT Act, no BATF, etc.

Also remember that the South would have had NO political parties. Which means infinitely less corruption than there is today.

The Confederate Constitution contained ALL of the rights in the 1860 Union Constitution, PLUS new ones that would still serve us well today--the right to be free from unreasonable taxation, more restrictions on government pork.

As you can see--and I cannot emphasize this enough--IF IT ABOLISHED SLAVERY, which of course it didn't--The Confederacy would have been a MUCH freer and more just place to live than the Union. If the South won the Civil War, then abolsihed slavery, it--not the North--would be the Beacon of Democracy.

Had slavery not been an issue, it is clear that the South would have held the high moral ground--as it, in fact, did in 1861 (There weren't English people clamoring to support the North, were there?). Lincoln, the brillaint president he was, issued the Emancipation Proclamation TO STOP EUROPE FROM HELPING THE SOUTH. After issuing the said Proclamation, the North became the moral side, and the South became the "bad guys". It is sheer historical revisionism to say that the rest of the world looked upon the South as the "bad guys" in 1861 or 1862.

The last country to abolish slavery was Brazil in 1888. They did so relatively non-violently. Slavery was NOT economically sustainable. Slavery WAS going to die out by the late 1860s to early 1870s in the United States, considering it was not nearly as deeply rooted her as in Brazil. Had the South WON the civil war, we would be living in a much better society today.

I realize this is pure conjecture, but let me present this alternate history:
1861: Ft. Sumter; Civil War Begins; Trent Affair; Britsh intervene for the South and break the Union blockade
1862: General Baylor declares Arizona and New Mexico to be Confederate territories.
1863: Battle of Chancellorsville; Stonewall Jackson Survives; South wins Battle of Gettysburg; Britian puts diplomatic pressure on the North.
1864: Lincoln loses the election. McClellan, the democratic president, declares peace with the South.
1865: North and South sign a peace treaty and continue to exist as independent countries.
1867: Jefferson Davis's term as President ends; War Hero Robert E. Lee elected new presdient of the Confederacy
1868: Economic crisis in South.
Early 1870s: Compensated emancipation of slaves, brought on by Lee's demands and popularity, as well as economic reality. Remember that Lee ardently opposed slavery to begin with, and when the war was over, took communion with a black man. He was probably the LEAST racist of all generals in the Civil War.
1873: Lee's term as president expires; replaced by former Vice President Alexander Stephens.
1876: Southern Transcontinental railroad through New Mexico and Arizona.
1880s-1890s: Industrialization in South. Industrialization is carried out more equitably, due to the lack of a millionaire "trust" class.
1898: Spanish-American War; South and North unite to fight Spain. South acquires Cuba. Americans do not win as decisively, and thus, the Spanish are allowed to keep Phillipines. 10,000 American soldiers and 600,000 Philippinos lives are saved by not invading the Phillippines.
1903: Teddy Rooselvet becomes President of the North; Panama Canal Crisis. North acquires Panama Canal.
1912: Woodrow Wilson DEFEATED in election by the Republican candidate (remember that Wilson's support was based in the South). The Republican candidate adopts isolationism. America never gets involved in World War I.
1917: World War I ends with a peace treaty between Britain and Germany. Civil war in Russia; Germans, British, and French invade Russia and defeat teh Bolsheviks, who have less support than in real life. Monarchs remain in power in Germany and Russia.
1929: Stock market crash. Low Southern Tariffs prevent the total collapse and the Great Depression becomes just a minor recession, while a helathy Germany prevents collapse in Europe. Financial aid to North from Europe and South.
1932: Hoover defeats FDR in a razor-thin margin.
1933: Hitler runs for Chancellor. Soundly defeated by the healthy economy.
1935: Hitler's second coup. Fails again and Hitler is put in jail for the last time.
1937: Second Sino-Japanese War, North and Czarist Russia help China, Japanese defeated.

[EmeraldKnight]

A little obsessed there, eh Minda?

[ComradeRed]

Ok so my post was a little long... I was writing LD CFL cases and I was bored... needed an excuse to procrastinate. Besides, I love alt hists.

[EmeraldKnight]

CFL? haha alt hists is great.. have you read the books by Harry Turtledove? (its not off topic cuz its about the confederacy and if they won the war..)

[ComradeRed]

CFL? haha alt hists is great.. have you read the books by Harry Turtledove? (its not off topic cuz its about the confederacy and if they won the war..)

I haven't read any of his works, no.

CFL = Catholic Forensics League (sometimes written as NCFL, National Catholic Forensics League). They're like teh NFL's evil twin.